The NHL Thread (34 Viewers)

OP
Bjerknes

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
117,240
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #5,401
    I've seen that similar events to the 'Bertuzzi punch' happen in many different situations where there were no consequences. In the actual Bertuzzi punch, there's the pile driving effect, and the players all piling on afterwards.

    Similarly, I've seen guys get hit into the stanchion many times, and checks finished where the hands slide up into the head area on the follow through... and I've seen them usually go unpunished.
    Yeah, but I haven't seen too many as brutal as the Chara one. Maybe one or two, or maybe none. I'm not sure. From my time playing and watching the game, I'd say that was a very malicious hit because it wasn't shoulder, hit was the arm directing him into the side of the glass. That's not kosher.

    Bertuzzi got what he got because the intent was so flagrantly obvious - he tried to engage the player who declined, then followed him a few strides, then punched him in the back of the head AND drove him into the ice.
    I'd argue Chara basically did the same thing. Puck was up the boards, Pax was trying to evade, and Chara guided him with his arms into the side of the glass.

    I don't have a dog in the fight on this one, mind you.
     

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    Rollie

    Senior Member
    Apr 15, 2008
    5,143
    Now hold on a second.

    Justify what I SAY? What exactly did I say? That I thought that it was a dirty hit and I thought that Chara was a dirty piece of shit?

    Please FUCKING TELL ME how that is the same as "I hope he dies", "He deserved it", and "At least something good came out of the game". Give me a fucking break. Did I wish any injuries to any of the Bruins players after that hit? Please read what I had typed AGAIN.

    Oh wait, that's right, you can't tell me that is the same, because it isn't.

    And Max Pac didn't say what he said afterwards so that others should be afraid of the "Z Monster" (how old are you, 12?) in the future. He was talking about similar instances like that.

    Its bad enough that I hear bullshit from all the Bruins fans here in new england (Kinda Funny, since most of them wren't even close to being born the last time the Bruins won a Stanley Cup), but now I have to hear it from you? that's just rich beyond all comprehension.

    I've hated the Bruins for over 30 years now, but have never hated a Bruins fan.

    Until Now.
    So you 'hate' me now? What?

    And I'M immature because I referenced that Pacioretty, the Montreal organization, and a lot of fans - at least in my opinion - have demonized a first time offender who plays the game very hard (hence the monster reference)...? I was using some levity that you may not have appreciated, but my sentiment remains unchanged.

    Where did I say that those comments on Hockey's Futures board were anything other than retarded? I said all fan bases have idiots.

    I also didn't criticize you for your thoughts on Chara. To each his own.

    My reaction is 'rich beyond all comprehension'? I'm not allowed to have an opinion? Because I grew up in Ontario, not Boston? I've been a fan of the Bruins since I was 7 - that's 21 fucking years, man. I'll voice my opinion on whatever I damn well please.

    And where did I say that you wished injuries on Boston players? Any comments about injuring players, etc., were clearly directed toward mark.

    And I don't even have a 'real' problem with it, given the circumstance, but I will mouth back about it

    Definitely watching this one tonight.

    But the Chara hit was definitely malicious and deserved more than what he got.
    Well, we disagree here buddy, but at least we could probably talk about it without invoking 'hate'.

    You said scum twice in that post. You're probably correct in both cases.

    I wasn't defending Cooke. Cooke is one of my least favorite players on the Pens. I agreed that he deserved the suspension. I loath the fact that he's on our team, if we need enforcers present we have Godard and Rupp.

    I thought Chara should have gotten some sort of suspension as well. That's all.
    That's very fair, Aaron. I won't make any joke about you having Cooke posters up on your wall, etc. :D

    Don't let it get to you. I don't think Rollie means to be malicious.
    Hell no, I wasn't trying to be malicious. I stated an opinion that is not popular, but I tried to back it up with specific points and examples so that people would at least know where I was coming from.

    I've always wished Patches the best, and I certainly don't advocate dirty play, etc. I feel differently about this particular hit than some, that's all.

    Even then, I said that his hands finished high, and I wouldn't have been surprised to see a small suspension, given that there was contact with the head - which they're trying to crack down on. I just don't believe that the intent was there.
     

    KB824

    Senior Member
    Sep 16, 2003
    31,789
    Andy, it was the result of the hit that made it seem malicious.

    What bothers me about the hit, more than anything, and no one on this board bothered to say anything when I mentioned it a couple of weeks ago, is that Chara, at 6' 9", did not need to use his left arm on that check. His positioning with Pacioretty was that a body check or hip check would have done the job to impede his progress, which waas what the check was supposed to do. He is 7 inches taller than Pacioretty, and it could be argued that using his arm in that case was what led to max's head hitting the stanchion.

    Look at the arm, and where it is positioned when the hit was followed through. If his arm wasn't at Max's head, can we honestly sit here and say that Max would have gone head first into that stanchion?

    At worst he would have ended up in the Bruins Bench, or his head would have hit the plexiglass.

    That is what bothers me about the hit more than anything. There was no need for Chara to use his arm in that instance.
     

    KB824

    Senior Member
    Sep 16, 2003
    31,789
    I mentioned the arm, Serge. That's where the problem does arise. He basically guided Pax into the stanchion.
    I'm not saying that he guided him into the stanchion purposely. I'm saying that was the end result, and it was a result that didn't have to come to that if he didn't use his arm in the first place, which at hsi size,with his speed, is not something that is needed on that particular play
     

    Mark

    The Informer
    Administrator
    Dec 19, 2003
    97,922
    What's wrong with taking out a guy with clean hip check or shoulder? I have a problem with dirty hits so if a player gets one of our guys illegally then I'd expect one of our guys to hit one of theirs hard but cleanly to send a message. Nothing wrong with that in my book. We don't have the team to start shit and fight everybody so we'll go for the 2pts and that's probably it.
     

    Rollie

    Senior Member
    Apr 15, 2008
    5,143
    If I'm stupid I fight Chara one on one so I either use my stick or hit Bergeron cleanly to give them a message to stop hitting our players. This as nothing to do with being at home behind my computer. That's what i,d want our players to do but we'll probably just let it go and go for the win.

    at Recchi he should just get his mouth shut up. You can't say the medical staff faked or embellished a serious injury.
    Both teams should be going for the win. These points are crucial.

    The computer comment is a joke, because you came across multiple time with the tough guy stance. But you were talking about injuring Bergy, which obviously I don't like.

    Recchi could have kept his mouth closed. He is a highly respected and opinionated player though, and he was pressed by the interviewer on the embellishment issue. Freedom of speech - I can see what you don't like about it. He maybe could have chosen his words a little better, but effectively he's saying it was ultimately misdiagnosed... but even that depends on some very specific medical terminology, etc. I'm not educated enough to speak on medical definitions and severity; not in the know, on their vernacular.

    Yeah, but I haven't seen too many as brutal as the Chara one. Maybe one or two, or maybe none. I'm not sure. From my time playing and watching the game, I'd say that was a very malicious hit because it wasn't shoulder, hit was the arm directing him into the side of the glass. That's not kosher.

    I'd argue Chara basically did the same thing. Puck was up the boards, Pax was trying to evade, and Chara guided him with his arms into the side of the glass.

    I don't have a dog in the fight on this one, mind you.
    It's all about the amount of time it takes for these things to happen though, Andy. It's split second reactions. Anyway, I appreciate your opinion, I know you love hockey and follow closely. My thoughts are that in the Bertuzzi incident, the two players are barely skating (almost at a standstill), Todd follows him for 3-4 strides yapping at him to fight, and then punches him in the back of the head. Etc.

    In most hits people guide with their arms, or what have you. My opinion is that Chara tried to make the correct hockey play - taking a man out so he couldn't go on a breakway - and unfortunately finished high. I don't have a problem with people saying the hit was dirty - I've admitted the finish on the check was high.

    But I don't think it was intentional. Those types of situations will continue to happen occasionally in hockey, when two guys are going all out to claim space.

    Anyway, I love the discussion boys. Other than the fact that Sergio now hates me. ;)

    I've gotta run, but I'll be watching this one tonight. If I don't go out, we can all yell at each other and taunt each other over the net. :D
     

    Mark

    The Informer
    Administrator
    Dec 19, 2003
    97,922
    Both teams should be going for the win. These points are crucial.

    The computer comment is a joke, because you came across multiple time with the tough guy stance. But you were talking about injuring Bergy, which obviously I don't like.

    Recchi could have kept his mouth closed. He is a highly respected and opinionated player though, and he was pressed by the interviewer on the embellishment issue. Freedom of speech - I can see what you don't like about it. He maybe could have chosen his words a little better, but effectively he's saying it was ultimately misdiagnosed... but even that depends on some very specific medical terminology, etc. I'm not educated enough to speak on medical definitions and severity; not in the know, on their vernacular.



    It's all about the amount of time it takes for these things to happen though, Andy. It's split second reactions. Anyway, I appreciate your opinion, I know you love hockey and follow closely. My thoughts are that in the Bertuzzi incident, the two players are barely skating (almost at a standstill), Todd follows him for 3-4 strides yapping at him to fight, and then punches him in the back of the head. Etc.

    In most hits people guide with their arms, or what have you. My opinion is that Chara tried to make the correct hockey play - taking a man out so he couldn't go on a breakway - and unfortunately finished high. I don't have a problem with people saying the hit was dirty - I've admitted the finish on the check was high.

    But I don't think it was intentional. Those types of situations will continue to happen occasionally in hockey, when two guys are going all out to claim space.

    Anyway, I love the discussion boys. Other than the fact that Sergio now hates me. ;)

    I've gotta run, but I'll be watching this one tonight. If I don't go out, we can all yell at each other and taunt each other over the net. :D
    Of course you don,t like the Bergy thing but nothing illegal dude and you should understand that me too I don,t like our players getting stretchered out...Zednik, MaxPac...



    Good game.
     

    Rollie

    Senior Member
    Apr 15, 2008
    5,143
    What's wrong with taking out a guy with clean hip check or shoulder? I have a problem with dirty hits so if a player gets one of our guys illegally then I'd expect one of our guys to hit one of theirs hard but cleanly to send a message. Nothing wrong with that in my book. We don't have the team to start shit and fight everybody so we'll go for the 2pts and that's probably it.
    Buddy, if you were honestly talking about a clean check or many clean checks for payback, well, nobody here has a problem about that. I don't think anybody would have a problem with a good ole fashioned fight in response, either.

    But you don't have the team to start shit, you're right, and you guys need those points.

    Anyway, I really gotta run. Have a good day guys.
     

    Rollie

    Senior Member
    Apr 15, 2008
    5,143
    We could all go out after a game and have a beer at Chez Paré and laugh about the Leafs or something. :D
    I think this would be a good crowd to get shitfaced with, and watch some intense playoff hockey. I have a feeling these teams are going to be getting real intimate in a few weeks time.

    And there's always Leafs Material. ;)

    Sorry Max. :D
     
    OP
    Bjerknes

    Bjerknes

    "Top Economist"
    Mar 16, 2004
    117,240
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #5,414
    I'm not saying that he guided him into the stanchion purposely. I'm saying that was the end result, and it was a result that didn't have to come to that if he didn't use his arm in the first place, which at hsi size,with his speed, is not something that is needed on that particular play
    Dude, it's not a matter of necessity. You're not going to let up on a guy just because he's a shrimp, you're going to wreck the dude into the boards. Trust me, I know, I played high school hockey in middle school and got my ass kicked by much bigger players. Chara is going to use his size to his advantage no matter the opponent, which is why it's simply the use of the arm towards the head that should annoy you.
     

    KB824

    Senior Member
    Sep 16, 2003
    31,789
    Dude, it's not a matter of necessity. You're not going to let up on a guy just because he's a shrimp, you're going to wreck the dude into the boards. Trust me, I know, I played high school hockey in middle school and got my ass kicked by much bigger players. Chara is going to use his size to his advantage no matter the opponent, which is why it's simply the use of the arm towards the head that should annoy you.
    Isn't that what I said, that it was the use of the arm that pissed me off?
     

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