The more it changes, the more it changes back, maybe (1 Viewer)

Dec 27, 2003
1,982
#1
Greetings, gobbi.

I suppose I don't need to ax you whether all is fine with you in view of the recent streak of impressive results. Me, Im not doing too bad either : we're officially a scudetto contender too after that tragic start, and the plan to get Paolino to lift the only trophy absent from his case - the once prestigious UEFA Cup - is still topical. So thanks for asking, but this isn't about me : it's about you, so you may refer to the next paragraph now.

Cheers. So why am I posting here after a long absence? Well, first off to welcome back a long-standing enemy to the football that counts. Secondly, more broadly and most crucially, to thank you for providing me with a few reasons for optimism, as I will now illustrate.

You have come a long way since the days of Dr Agricola and Herr Ventrone and, obviously, since the Waterloo of Calciopoli. And you have done this in a far shorter time than I could have imagined. Personally, I was expecting a good 5 years if not a decade in the wilderness, similar to the period stretching between the end of the Platini era and the advent of the Triad. But no, you're clearly back already, and in a way that, if that means anything to you coming from a milanista, has earned you my respect.

In the wake of Calciopoli, your stellar team was gone, as were the bandits at the helm. While the demise of gangsters should be positive news for polite society, it did leave you rather vulnerable in the cruel and savage world of serie A. Secco, Blanc and the fresh-faced John Elkan looked ready - or so I expected - to be dismembered like Vietnamese rent boys by the Jeffrey Dahmers of the day. However, bar for a few retributive calls last year, which were bound to happen, that hasn't been the case. And this is what has actually given me a first dose of hope. It led me to think that, maybe, Italian football isn't all that rotten. Or at least that it is in a better state than it was 3 years ago. Maybe it is still possible for a team with character and a sound plan to succeed. Maybe the era of the Untouchables is behind us. Ok that's taking it too far but maybe, somewhere along the line, a fairy tale will be written again, reminiscent of those of Hellas Verona, Roma, Napoli or Sampdoria back in the golden days.

At any rate, when I look at the present Juve, I must admit that I quite like what I see. Here is a team whose only real stars are not there following a senseless shopping spree à la Inter, Real, Barca, or *insert EPL squad overflowing with petrodollars here*. Buffon, Nedved, Del Piero, Trezeguet. These guys play for Juve for the simple reason that they have no desire to play anywhere else. They can rely on some otherwise excellent colleagues (Amauri, Camoranesi..), a band of solid gregari (Iaquinta, Sissoko, Chimenti, Legrottaglie 2.0) and a good handful of Italian players, generally young and with varying abilities. All these three categories of players know their place, and the resulting equilibrium of the team is the main key to the justly celebrated 'spirito Juve'. One mention must also go to Del Piero, who I have so often (rightfully) castigated for his NT performances but whose eternal rebirth with Juve leaves me quite speechless. As a passionate club fan who nonetheless CAN recognize the enemy's beauty, I guess there was also frustration on my behalf for his showing me possibly the greatest football displayed by an Italian in my lifetime during that epic 1997/98 season, only to never come close to that level of brilliance in the following seasons (the infamous wait for Godot).

Now I want to spend a few words on those Italian players of yours, because they constitute another note of cautious optimism for me. The Juventus teams that wrote the golden pages of your history have always depended on an established group of Italian players. The first Juve of Lippi had the various Peruzzi, Ferrara, Torricelli, Pessotto, Di Livio, Ravanelli, Vialli and the young Del Piero. Trap's Juve could rely on Zoff, Scirea, Gentile, Cabrini, Furino, Tardelli, Rossi, Bettega & Co. My theory is that, before finding the right mixture between the aforementioned three categories of players, the secret for longevity in serie A starts with the ability to create a 'zoccolo duro', a hard core of Italian players, who incidentally will also often end up forming the spine and trademark character of the national team. History has taught us this repeatedly, most notably at World Cup 1978 in your case, where a first team made up of 9 gobbi out of 11 produced arguably the most interesting football played by the Nazionale in the post war era, thereby laying the foundations for our 1982 triumph. Obviously, the current crop of Italian juventini is still a far cry from those past legends, but the path has been traced and that is what matters.

Now, apart from the obvious reasons that make it my duty to detest Inter, the biggest beef I have with them is that by creating a squad that looks like a mini UN they are helping deprive serie A of its nature and thereby threatening the competitiveness of Italian football at the international level. Not because Italian players are in any way fundamentally superior to their German, Spanish or French counterparts, but because it is my opinion that, unlike those nations (or definitily unlike France anyway) Italian players need to be surrounded by at least 3 or 4 compatriots at club level if they are to preserve their peculiar strengths in the international arena. It is no coincidence that the only current good Italian defender that isn't over 30 (Chiellini) plays for Juve. If the new Baresi, Maldini or Nesta are nowhere to be seen, it is first because zone football has virtually eclipsed good old man-marking and secondly because there hasn't been an all-Italian backline in serie A for a decade. Given that even Milan now seem to be opting for a Star United concept (where are the future Gattuso, Pirlo and Ambrosini?), Juve and to an extent Roma are the only big teams that still seem to understand the importance of that model.

That is my take on this subject, and while hoping that these good words from a rival won't jinx you, I am looking forward to new marvellous battles and bantering sessions.

Respectfully etc.
 

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KB824

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2003
31,673
#2
Libero???



Oh my god, this is a Nick Against the World reunion.



ANd once again, your post count belies the true quality with which you write them.


It's good to see you again, and your insight, although at times maybe a little slanted, is always a welcome presence
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
111,513
#3
Nice post, Mr. Franco.

It's good that supporters from various clubs see how Inter's policies are a detriment to Calcio. I do not support the Azzurri but do wish them a strong side.
 

JCK

Biased
JCK
May 11, 2004
123,475
#9
Excellent post, Libero. It's nice to see you appreciating the team like some of us do. Respect.
 

Geof

Senior Member
May 14, 2004
6,740
#11
Welcome back Kaiser!

Very nice post of yours, good to see some quality posting around here. It's been a while I must say.

One detail though, mentioning Chimenti as 'solid' is probably over the top. If Chimenti, rather than Manninger, was currently defending our goal, the recent matches would have ended otherwise, I believe.

You remain very concise about Milan. They seem to pick up a better form after their horrendous last season, yet my feeling is that they are totally lacking a long-term plan. Bringing back Sheva, signing Ronaldinho and making marketing stunts through Beckham is in my opinion hiding the real problems. Which youngsters have Milan recently produced?
I used to respect Milan as a honourable rival, but somethin changed in the past few years. It's not about individuals, but the whole feeling around this team just seems to vanish.
 

Badass J Elkann

It's time to go!!
Feb 12, 2006
65,732
#12
Welcome back Kaiser!

Very nice post of yours, good to see some quality posting around here. It's been a while I must say.

One detail though, mentioning Chimenti as 'solid' is probably over the top. If Chimenti, rather than Manninger, was currently defending our goal, the recent matches would have ended otherwise, I believe.

You remain very concise about Milan. They seem to pick up a better form after their horrendous last season, yet my feeling is that they are totally lacking a long-term plan. Bringing back Sheva, signing Ronaldinho and making marketing stunts through Beckham is in my opinion hiding the real problems. Which youngsters have Milan recently produced?
I used to respect Milan as a honourable rival, but somethin changed in the past few years. It's not about individuals, but the whole feeling around this team just seems to vanish.

:(
 
OP
Kaiser Franco
Dec 27, 2003
1,982
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #14
    Hello all, thanks for the kind words.

    Paul, after reading it again I actually agree that I typed mostly conjectures and mindless drivel that can be easily disproved today or will be in the future. But it's what I do..

    Geof : yes I meant Manninger not Chimenti. About Milan, that's my point actually. We're not looking too bad for the time being and this season could bring us some satisfaction, but the not so long term remains an enigma.

    To be fair, we haven't produced any top player in well over a decade now, but until recently we've at least had the decency to pick some youngsters elsewhere and give them their chance. Right now we don't have many young guns to write home about apart from Pato, Paloschi (finally a product of the primavera) and Gourcuff if he still wants to trust us. Also, no indication from the board that they are willing to build a prospective hard core of Italian players on which to bank for the benefit of the club and the NT.
     

    Respaul

    Senior Member
    Jul 14, 2002
    4,734
    #15
    Hello all, thanks for the kind words.

    Paul, after reading it again I actually agree that I typed mostly conjectures and mindless drivel that can be easily disproved today or will be in the future. But it's what I do..
    Ha Ha.... Dont we all, Though in this case i didnt mean ramblings in a derogatory way... It was a perfectly reasonable post
     

    Osman

    Koul Khara!
    Aug 30, 2002
    59,259
    #16
    Never seen you post around here (though have in XT azzurri forum), thats one quality post. Welcome, or should say welcome back.

    Nice to see respaul post :) Wether its in XT or here, it has been too long.
     

    Nenz

    Senior Member
    Apr 17, 2008
    10,420
    #20
    εℓ niño;1806472 said:
    Great post, mate :tup:

    Fuck Milan!
    :lol:

    good post dude, never seen you in these forums but i'd welcome more posts like that.
    Maybe Calciopoli, in the long run, was to our benefit. If we were to stay as is we might have followed that trend that milan and inter have found themselves in. Since Calciopoli, we haven't been able to go on international shopping sprees, and instead opted for some local talent which is perhaps the reason for that team model you speak of. Its certainly nice to see when the italian players do well.
     

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