The Mod Thread ("because for some reason,you think we actually care") (27 Viewers)
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I am not generalizing over all of you btw...
When i was a new member it was happening more. But it still happens nevertheless. I get infractions for almost no reasons. (Like the time i got one for saying JEW with a smily next to it). Whilst everyone else can go around insulting each other's religion, race etc. And it goes unnoticed if its one of the "popular ones" who actually use the terms, fag and nigger a lot.
http://www.juventuz.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2192708#post2192708
Another time when i called Ciro an idiot around the time he said diego doesnt listen to him. That time, some people still had faith in ciro and i got punished for it yet in a very short time afterwords (when was proved to be a terrible coach yet never resigned) Insults flew all over the place and again the "popular ones" can do or say whatever they want.
http://www.juventuz.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2249198#post2249198
Another time, During my Islamic days we were discussing homosexuality. And i neither called them fags (like others do) nor said they shouldnt live or whatever. I merely said homosexuality is not the natural state of a gender... and that anal sex has a higher chance of transferring STDs.
http://www.juventuz.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1897806#post1897806
Another time (also in the Islamic days), I was discussing religion with Seven and he started the allah insults. I did not go apeshit on him yet i got an infraction for using the F word (without it being directed at him in the first place).
I dunno if he went unpunished at the time and i didnt but then again...Foul language is used a lot but only i must be punished.
http://www.juventuz.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1898209#post1898209
There are some deserved infractions (and 1 ban) on my shoulders. But In these cases I was picked on just because i was hated and that is a fact. A lot of people get away with things that actually deserve punishment but they are either mods or ex-mods or ancient members.
I am surprised that no one told you before that favoritism exists amongst the mods' order. I gave examples just about me... there are plenty of other cases if i did some research or if I ask around. But i am not THAT committed to the case tbh.
Again, I am not generalizing over all mods (dont ask me to pin point names cause i wont) and i am not denying that It has been getting better the more they got used to me... but it happens and i am not the one he is supposed to point it out.
Also, I am not asking you to remove the infractions nor to open their cases again. I honestly dont care about points and stuff as long as i am not banned. I am just pointing out that it happens and not just to me.
Maybe i never complained about my infractions before because i dont care.. but at least having an option to debate the punishment in the mods thread helps out. Thats why i think Mikhail's idea of simply trusting the mods or not giving members the right to whine is bad.
When i was a new member it was happening more. But it still happens nevertheless. I get infractions for almost no reasons. (Like the time i got one for saying JEW with a smily next to it). Whilst everyone else can go around insulting each other's religion, race etc. And it goes unnoticed if its one of the "popular ones" who actually use the terms, fag and nigger a lot.
http://www.juventuz.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2192708#post2192708
Another time when i called Ciro an idiot around the time he said diego doesnt listen to him. That time, some people still had faith in ciro and i got punished for it yet in a very short time afterwords (when was proved to be a terrible coach yet never resigned) Insults flew all over the place and again the "popular ones" can do or say whatever they want.
http://www.juventuz.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2249198#post2249198
Another time, During my Islamic days we were discussing homosexuality. And i neither called them fags (like others do) nor said they shouldnt live or whatever. I merely said homosexuality is not the natural state of a gender... and that anal sex has a higher chance of transferring STDs.
http://www.juventuz.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1897806#post1897806
Another time (also in the Islamic days), I was discussing religion with Seven and he started the allah insults. I did not go apeshit on him yet i got an infraction for using the F word (without it being directed at him in the first place).
I dunno if he went unpunished at the time and i didnt but then again...Foul language is used a lot but only i must be punished.
http://www.juventuz.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1898209#post1898209
There are some deserved infractions (and 1 ban) on my shoulders. But In these cases I was picked on just because i was hated and that is a fact. A lot of people get away with things that actually deserve punishment but they are either mods or ex-mods or ancient members.
I am surprised that no one told you before that favoritism exists amongst the mods' order. I gave examples just about me... there are plenty of other cases if i did some research or if I ask around. But i am not THAT committed to the case tbh.
Again, I am not generalizing over all mods (dont ask me to pin point names cause i wont) and i am not denying that It has been getting better the more they got used to me... but it happens and i am not the one he is supposed to point it out.
Also, I am not asking you to remove the infractions nor to open their cases again. I honestly dont care about points and stuff as long as i am not banned. I am just pointing out that it happens and not just to me.
Maybe i never complained about my infractions before because i dont care.. but at least having an option to debate the punishment in the mods thread helps out. Thats why i think Mikhail's idea of simply trusting the mods or not giving members the right to whine is bad.
Unfortunately interpretation plays a big role, and context can mean the difference. I call Eazy a man-slut, and there are contexts where that's acceptably funny and unacceptably unfunny.
With cards, they are warnings. They go away in the system as long as you don't start collecting them fast enough. You could earn a few cards each month and still never get auto-banned for it.
But yes, you are right in that the mods are biased. Part of the problem is because we're human like anybody else. We often try our best to be objective and to leave our biases out of it, but that's wholly imperfect. Mods can make good friends with some posters more than others and lose their objectivity. I carded Andy last weekend for some tirade, and he wholly deserved it, but it does make things a little weird personally -- at least momentarily.
Good mods do their best to go beyond that. But none of them are perfect.
This is where having a group of mods who chime in as a good thing. Having mods that represent different cultures, different backgrounds, etc., is helpful so that one person's "no big deal" becomes another mod's view of clear bias.
Bear with us as we are most definitely imperfect. But I can genuinely say that all the mods I know here act primarily out of wanting this to be a good site with a good environment for other posters as well as themselves. We just don't always live up to it. We don't always catch every infraction that goes on with every exchange on the site. And we don't always interpret things the same way.
But I will also say this about the mod team: they respect the different opinions of other mods and we try to resolve things with the mutual interest of what's best for the site in mind.
From an individual's perspective like yours, I'm sure you see a lot of unfairness as a result: why did this get a card but that didn't. And this is sort of why.
With cards, they are warnings. They go away in the system as long as you don't start collecting them fast enough. You could earn a few cards each month and still never get auto-banned for it.
But yes, you are right in that the mods are biased. Part of the problem is because we're human like anybody else. We often try our best to be objective and to leave our biases out of it, but that's wholly imperfect. Mods can make good friends with some posters more than others and lose their objectivity. I carded Andy last weekend for some tirade, and he wholly deserved it, but it does make things a little weird personally -- at least momentarily.
Good mods do their best to go beyond that. But none of them are perfect.
This is where having a group of mods who chime in as a good thing. Having mods that represent different cultures, different backgrounds, etc., is helpful so that one person's "no big deal" becomes another mod's view of clear bias.
Bear with us as we are most definitely imperfect. But I can genuinely say that all the mods I know here act primarily out of wanting this to be a good site with a good environment for other posters as well as themselves. We just don't always live up to it. We don't always catch every infraction that goes on with every exchange on the site. And we don't always interpret things the same way.
But I will also say this about the mod team: they respect the different opinions of other mods and we try to resolve things with the mutual interest of what's best for the site in mind.
From an individual's perspective like yours, I'm sure you see a lot of unfairness as a result: why did this get a card but that didn't. And this is sort of why.
Totally agree with you midget (its you right?), been here long enough to notice it since the beginning. Its usually unintentional, but seen several cases of mods taking it the easier route of not wanting to deal with what some regular members they know well do or act like, while acting on the same thing if its less "popular" or anonymous members.
I don't think it's a dirty secret that it happens. This is where self-policing becomes important and members can help by pointing out to other mods where they think one mod might be failing his or her duties.
But in my seven years on these forums, I unfortunately have to tell you that I don't see that bias entirely going away. People are able to isolate from that with varying degrees of success, but I have never seen a mod here or on any forum handle that situation with perfect, bias-less discipline. This is where basic human fallibility comes in.
The only way I see to really eliminate that is to hire dedicated mods who never post nor interact with any of the members other than for disciplinary measures. Financially and realistically, I don't think that's possible either.
You can criticize it as much as you want, but the fact remains that if you or anyone else were put in the same position, trust me when I say pretty much the same things would happen. In seven years of different moderators here, that's also been my observation.
But in my seven years on these forums, I unfortunately have to tell you that I don't see that bias entirely going away. People are able to isolate from that with varying degrees of success, but I have never seen a mod here or on any forum handle that situation with perfect, bias-less discipline. This is where basic human fallibility comes in.
The only way I see to really eliminate that is to hire dedicated mods who never post nor interact with any of the members other than for disciplinary measures. Financially and realistically, I don't think that's possible either.
You can criticize it as much as you want, but the fact remains that if you or anyone else were put in the same position, trust me when I say pretty much the same things would happen. In seven years of different moderators here, that's also been my observation.
Yeah, I dont expect perfection, and human subjectivity and fallacy is expected for sure, people intepret things differently and such. But been on and are on other forums, and can compare certain things for all of them. They all have in common of no matter hard and fair mods are, you are bound to be subjective to a degree and rule different in some things, even if one follows the rules put up to a T, there has to be some (unintended) biasm in ruling things, human nature.
But in general whats unique about this site is besides being 1 club only forum, that its somewhat close enough smaller community regarding the regular posters and the kind of lax inviroment it is, and in that includes how to rule or moderate things. Its not much of an hands on approach in terms of the rules. And some ways its refreshing and good (not to baby sit everything).
But in some ways it also been a way to avoid the unconvenient, it tends to become too much of the approach has been on not what is done and what to do with it according to the rules (treat everyone equally), but WHO did it and how to or not deal with it based on who it is. Noticed that tendency too much, that its bit uncomfortable for mods prolly to put on the moderator mantle when you are trying to deal with people you usually familiar with and consider a buddy or value as a poster in the forums. It seems to be much easier to put on that moderator mantle if its towards more anonymous or less "popular" posters as I said (in this way, doesnt seem to be unintended bias, more of taking the easier way). Doesnt seem to be too much of a consistent way to deal with everyone based on their actions alone. I seen random posters be punished/reprimanded for what regular posters get away with daily.
But in general whats unique about this site is besides being 1 club only forum, that its somewhat close enough smaller community regarding the regular posters and the kind of lax inviroment it is, and in that includes how to rule or moderate things. Its not much of an hands on approach in terms of the rules. And some ways its refreshing and good (not to baby sit everything).
But in some ways it also been a way to avoid the unconvenient, it tends to become too much of the approach has been on not what is done and what to do with it according to the rules (treat everyone equally), but WHO did it and how to or not deal with it based on who it is. Noticed that tendency too much, that its bit uncomfortable for mods prolly to put on the moderator mantle when you are trying to deal with people you usually familiar with and consider a buddy or value as a poster in the forums. It seems to be much easier to put on that moderator mantle if its towards more anonymous or less "popular" posters as I said (in this way, doesnt seem to be unintended bias, more of taking the easier way). Doesnt seem to be too much of a consistent way to deal with everyone based on their actions alone. I seen random posters be punished/reprimanded for what regular posters get away with daily.
No one expects the mods to make perfectly fair decisions. I can understand the mods being more patient to those they know more, those who have been here more, those who are more reputed but here we are talking about Burke. The way you treat him differently than the other members doesn't suggest small imperfections Swag. The mod team has been patient to his behavior SO much that all the members have learned not to complain about his behavior to you.
I think EPL and Ibra fans deserve to be made fun of, just like the way the majority of the forum loves to mock Barcelona. Zlatan isn't a player here anyway, so insulting him doesn't break the rules. Calling folks Barca fans and "non-real Juve fans" can be just as insulting. And like everything should be let go.
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