The Matrix Reloaded (2 Viewers)

mikhail

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2003
9,576
#81
++ [ originally posted by Hydde ] ++
Well i dont think that persephone could be so important,,,but if you stayed in the cinema till the end of the credits..thet showed the trailer of matrix 3...and i catched some scenes of persephone fighting too.

I dont like to see the oracle as thje mother, i see her more like a bug/error in the matrix.

Neo is an anomaly, with the characteristics of an incredibly mathematically balanced equation. (like the architect said)
Neo asked if the Oracle was the "intuitive program" the Architect refered to as his co-designer of the later matrices (plural of matrix for the uneducated ;)) and he seemed to confirm it, also referrring to Neo as now having those same "intuitive" abilities - the ability to see the future, which is the Oracle's power.

The other thing is that Neo was able to save Trinity, despite the Architect's certaintly that it was beyond him, and then there's his (Neo's) ability to stop the Sentinals in the "real world", all of which implies to me that something has gone awry with the Architect's plan. We'll see.
 

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Hydde

Minimiliano Tristelli
Mar 6, 2003
38,709
#83
++ [ originally posted by mikhail ] ++


Neo asked if the Oracle was the "intuitive program" the Architect refered to as his co-designer of the later matrices (plural of matrix for the uneducated ;)) and he seemed to confirm it, also referrring to Neo as now having those same "intuitive" abilities - the ability to see the future, which is the Oracle's power.

The other thing is that Neo was able to save Trinity, despite the Architect's certaintly that it was beyond him, and then there's his (Neo's) ability to stop the Sentinals in the "real world", all of which implies to me that something has gone awry with the Architect's plan. We'll see.
yeah, in a certain way,,, he have more power than the other 5 "ones" before him.

The power to save humanity =)
 

Dj Juve

Senior Member
Jul 12, 2002
9,597
#84
yeah....


btw, did any1 else enjoy the fact that in the whole movie, the agents where thoroughly bullied :D the never won anything (smith isnt an agent anymore)
 

Hydde

Minimiliano Tristelli
Mar 6, 2003
38,709
#85
++ [ originally posted by dj juve ] ++
yeah....


btw, did any1 else enjoy the fact that in the whole movie, the agents where thoroughly bullied :D the never won anything (smith isnt an agent anymore)
Jajaja yeah, they are now a bunch of guys that think that they are tough, but they are not anymore.

I enjoyed a lot the fact that in this movie, even 45 smiths cant beat Neo.

He must be so depressed.
 

Dj Juve

Senior Member
Jul 12, 2002
9,597
#86
++ [ originally posted by Hydde ] ++
Jajaja yeah, they are now a bunch of guys that think that they are tough, but they are not anymore.
but remember, they are outside the matrix now (remember the time when the two fellas tried to get our, one got caught and and the agent got out to Zion...

++ [ originally posted by Hydde ] ++
I enjoyed a lot the fact that in this movie, even 45 smiths cant beat Neo.

He must be so depressed.
remember when neo flew off when he got tired of fighting all of them...they tried to cover up :D
 

SupJuve

Junior Member
Jul 12, 2002
58
#87
++ [ originally posted by Hydde ] ++


Explain more about that!!!

are you sure about that? please!
i'm sure. here is a part of architect architec-neo dialogue.

Architect: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it. And we have become exceedingly efficient at it. The function of the One is now to return to the source allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry reinserting the prime program after which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix . Which, coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.
 

SupJuve

Junior Member
Jul 12, 2002
58
#88
and here is the complete dialogue


Architect: Hello Neo

Neo: Who are you?

Architect: I am the Architect. I created the Matrix. I have been waiting for you. You have many questions and although the process has altered your consciousness you remain irrevocably human, ergo some of my answers you will understand and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question maybe the most pertinent you may or may not realize it is also the most irrelevant.

Neo: Why am I here?

Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent in the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden deciduously avoided it is not unexpected and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you inexcerably here.

Neo: You haven't answered my question.

Architect: Quite right. Interesting, that was quicker then the others.

Neo: Others? (What others? How many? Answer me)

Architect: The Matrix is older then you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next. In which case this is the sixth version.

Neo: Then there are only two possible explanations, either no one told me, or no one knows.

Architect: Precisely, as you are undoubtedly gathering the anomaly is systemic. Creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.

Neo: Choice, the problem is choice.

Architect: The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect; it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus, I redesigned it, Based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However I was again frustrated my failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another, and intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo: The Oracle

Architect: Please, as I was saying she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at an unconscious level. While this answered function it was obviously fundamentally flawed thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly. That if left unchecked might threaten the system itself, ergo those that refuse the program while the minority if unchecked would cause an escalating probability of disaster.

Neo: This is about Zion

Architect: You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.

Neo: *beep*

Architect: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it. And we have become exceedingly efficient at it. The function of the One is now to return to the source allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry reinserting the prime program after which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix. Which, coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.

Neo: You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive.

Architect: There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However the relevant issue is whether you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world. It is interesting reading your reactions. Your 5 predecessors were by design based on a similar predication a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species facilitating the function of the One. While the others experienced this in a very general way your experience is far more specific, Vis a vie love.

Neo: Trinity

Architect: Apropo, she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.

Neo: No

Architect: Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed and the anomaly revealed as both beginning and end. There are two doors, the door to your right leads to the source and the salvation of Zion, the door to your left leads back to the matrix to her and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know we you are going to do don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction the chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious truth, she is going to die and there is nothing you can do to stop it. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness.

Neo: If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.

Architect: We won't.
 

SupJuve

Junior Member
Jul 12, 2002
58
#90
a dialogue that was in the beginning of the first movie. summarizes the whole movie.

Neo: What? What the hell?... Follow the white rabbit?... (knock, knock) Who is it?
Choi: It's Choi.
Neo: Yeah. Yeah. You're two hours late.
Choi: I know, it's her fault.
Neo: Got the money?
Choi: Two grand.
Neo: Hold on.
Choi: Hallelujah. You're my savior, man. My own personal Jesus Christ.
Neo: You get caught using that...
Choi: Yeah, I know. This never happened. You don't exist .
Neo: Right.
Choi: Something wrong, man? You look a little whiter than usual.
Neo: My computer, it... You ever have that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?
Choi: Mm, all the time. It's called Mescaline. It's the only way to fly. Hey, it just sounds to me like you need to unplug, man . You know, get some R and R. What do you think, DuJour? Shall we take him with us?
DuJour: Definitely.
Neo: I can't, I have work tomorrow.
DuJour: Come on, It'll be fun. I promise.
Neo: Yeah, sure, I'll go.
 

Hydde

Minimiliano Tristelli
Mar 6, 2003
38,709
#92
Jjajaja yeah,,,looks like an introduction to the firt movie.
I think that it was made on purpouse.

Great post sib-juve. i was searching for that dialogue towrd the net.

But im still with my teory.
 

SupJuve

Junior Member
Jul 12, 2002
58
#95
this article explains everything. very long but worth it.

The Matrix Reloaded - Explained.
By Jason Payne

Zion is a program, just like the Matrix. How is Neo
able to figure out that
he is able to stop the sentinels in Zion near the end
of the film? The spoon
given to him earlier. It had obviously been bent
loads, but how outside the
Matrix?? This gave Neo the inspiration and the
understanding that Zion is
still a matrix.


The One explained
"The One" is a program, but has to be "attached" to
someone in the Matrix.
So Mr. Anderson got it in the 6th version of the
Matrix. Then "The One"
program's purpose is to allow Zion to be destroyed
then to rebuild it. The
reason for this is because of anomalies - the 1% of
humans that don't accept
the Matrix. These are all brought out of the Matrix
program and into the
Zion program by the "Morpheus" program and other
similar "ship captain"
programs. Then once all the anomalies are out of the
Matrix (and in Zion),
that is the time for Zion to be destroyed, thus
killing all the anomalies
off. The Matrix is then upgraded, thus creating the
next version of the
Matrix, but Zion must be rebuilt so that the next lot
of anomalies can be
brought out again so that they can be destroyed. This
is the feedback-loop,
and is the reason to retain a handful of people so
that Zion can be rebuilt.
So this is why Neo said the prophecy was a lie - the
One's purpose was not
to end the war as the prophecy stated.
Unfortunately, "The One" program must be re-used each
time, or copied, so it
can be "attached" to a new anomaly inside the Matrix.
So what happens to the
old "The One" program? It faces deletion, and as the
Oracle explained, it
goes into exile instead, just like the French bloke
(the Merovingian) did.
He was the first One (probably from the second version
of the Matrix), and
once he fulfilled his duty, he became an exile program
and "abdicated" his
"Oneness" by choosing Persephone and power. This is
evident in the bogs when
Persephone asks Neo to kiss her. She says she wants
him to kiss her so she
can feel what it is like again to be kissed by
something close to human,
just like the Merovingian used to be. Then she says to
Trinity that she
envies her, but that these things are not meant to
last. So the Merovingian
used to be just like Neo - a One - thus proving
further the feedback-loop
explained earlier.


The correct door in the Architect's room
Now there are two possibilities here:
1. All the previous One's chose the right door
allowing a "temporary
dissemination" of their code into the Matrix (i.e.,
the code they "carry"
thus indicating Neo is indeed human), then he must
select (unplug) 23 people
from the Matrix to rebuild Zion. This takes away the
possibility that
stories from previous rebuilds of Zion will be carried
through. But Morpheus
indicated in the first Matrix that this is the case
anyway. He said, "there
was a man born inside, able to change things, it was
he who freed the first
of us," - basically the One previous to Neo. And this
proves that the
previous One chose the right door also. Neo's purpose
is also to choose the
right door, but he does not because he faces deletion
afterwards and has the
choice of going into exile - programs choosing to go
into exile is the one
thing that can't be accounted for in program
parameters. Thus, he chooses
the left door instead this time. How was Neo able to
choose the other door?
Because of his extreme willpower? - Even the Architect
indicated that he'd
noticed this - "Interesting. That was quicker than the
others." Or more
likely, because the Oracle upgraded his coding with
the candy on the park
bench. The candy/cookie was a method to change the
One's program. She said
he has made a believer out of her - this is quite
human-like and perhaps the
previous One's didn't accept the upgrade candy, now
she has hope... hope
that Neo will finally choose the other door.

2. All the previous One's chose the left door, saving
Trinity and letting
Zion fall. So this time is no different. But the
Architect does say, "You
are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its
every living inhabitant
terminated, its entire existence eradicated," and
also, "this will be the
sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become
exceedingly efficient at
it," - assuming the Architect isn't lying, then they
have already destroyed
Zion (i.e., Zion has fallen) five times - i.e., the
result of going through
the left door.

Morpheus and Trinity are programs. Morpheus's purpose
was to find the One
and deliver him to the Architect. Trinity's purpose is
to control the One by
getting in love with him. Trinity is supposed to be
the mother of the new
One every time the Matrix is Reloaded. That's why the
sex scene was so
important and why she was named Trinity.

The Architect says, "she is going to die, and there is
nothing that you can
do to stop it." He was correct though because she did
die just like Neo did
in the first Matrix (Oracle said he or Morpheus would,
and she didn't lie,
but he came back to life). Trinity dies, but comes
back to life (we are
using medical definition of death in all this of
course!).

The Architect has already laid down an ultimatum for
Neo choosing the left
door:
The Architect - "Failure to comply with this process
will result in a
cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to
the matrix, which
coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately
result in the
extinction of the entire human race."

Neo - "You won't let it happen, you can't. You need
human beings to
survive."

The Architect - "There are levels of survival we are
prepared to accept.
However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are
ready to accept the
responsibility for the death of every human being in
this world."

Looking at this further, the Architect does say
"coupled" with the
extermination of Zion will the human race be
exterminated. So he says
everyone connected to the Matrix will die, but if Zion
is not exterminated,
the human race will not necessarily die. Also, there
is likely to be a
time-window between not going through the right door,
and the cataclysmic
crash, thus allowing Neo to unplug as many as possible
from the Matrix, then
those people won't die. This will be the start of the
next Zion. As for the
Matrix, a cataclysmic crash doesn't mean the end of
the Matrix - just needs
rebooting or reloading!


Agent Smith explained
Agent Smith is the only "human" in this world. He's
the one spreading
himself like a virus replicating himself over and over
until the Matrix will
finally get overloaded and fail. Smith is the one who
wants to get out of
the Matrix for good. He said so in the first Matrix,
"I must get out of
here, I must get free! And in this mind, is the key,"
squeezing Morpheus's
temples, "my key! Once Zion is destroyed, there is no
need for me to be
here!"
Smith knows that by killing Neo he can escape the
Matrix because Neo is the
key to resetting the Matrix, or to shut it off. It was
originally killing
Neo (in the first Matrix) that allowed Smith to become
powerful (cloning
ability) - so killing Neo again will allow him to gain
Neo's powers
completely, and thus gain the power to shut down the
Matrix.
So where the hell did Smith come from if he wants to
destroy the Matrix?
He's obviously not meant to be there - he's a computer
virus as he has every
characteristic of a virus - he multiplies and spreads
and infects (and
emulates) other programs like one. He is exactly as he
described humans at
the end of the first Matrix - "You move to an area and
you multiply and
multiply until every natural resource is consumed and
the only way you can
survive is to spread to another area. There is another
organism on this
planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what
it is? A virus."
But who put him there? This will only be revealed in
Revolutions
(Revelations?) I guess - but I'm betting on humans in
the real real world,
i.e., outside of Zion and the Matrix. They're at war
with the machines and
trying to destroy them by infecting them with this
virus - Agent Smith. So
the irony with this theory is that Agent Smith
represents the human race!!
Neo represents the machines! Agent Smith says to Neo
just after he's seen
the Oracle that he became free when Neo destroyed him
in the first Matrix
(remember when Neo entered his body and exploded him
from inside out) - as a
virus, Smith has the ability to "inherit" other
programs' abilities and thus
inherited some of Neo's.


The anomaly explained
The anomaly is all the humans that do not accept the
Matrix. The Architect
says "Your life is the sum of a remainder of an
unbalanced equation inherent
to the programming of the matrix. You are the
eventuality of an anomaly,
which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable
to eliminate from what
is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision.
While it remains a burden
to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and thus
not beyond a measure
of control." This includes Neo, but Neo's Matrix
avatar is attached with the
One program so that he can follow his purpose as
explained earlier under
"The One explained". However, he is also supposed to
protect himself and
destroy anything that gets in his way - i.e., Agent
Smith - so that he may
fulfil his purpose.
Further proving Neo - and other non-accepters of the
Matrix - are the
anomaly, the Architect says, "Your life is the sum of
a remainder of an
unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the
matrix." The clue
here is Neo's program name - "The One". Take one-third
for example. 1 over 3
is 0.33333 recurring. A computer cannot deal with
recurring numbers, so must
accept a limit, let's say 0.33333 for argument's sake.
Multiply by 3, you
get 0.99999 - never 1.00000, where has the "remainder"
0.00001 (One) gone?
This is the limitation of computers, this is the
mathematical imprecision
inherent in programming (of the Matrix) and the
eventuality of the One
anomaly unable to be eliminated.


What is the equation then?
Not sure, but it definitely involves pi. The Keymaker
refers to the window
of time to open the door to the mainframe as 314
seconds. 3.14 is pi to
three sig. figs., or the number of radians in half a
circle. Half a circle
is like the cross-section of a womb, similar to the
alcove of Neo and
Trinity's love scene - conceiving the next One? "NEO",
incidently, is an
anagram of "ONE". Trinity and Neo - one on one; a
choice - one or one. Leads
us to 101. "101" is mentioned numerous times in Matrix
1 and Reloaded. Neo's
room at the beginning, Merovingian is on the 101st
floor, the 101 freeway of
the car chase in Reloaded, then when Trinity is
hacking into the power plant
system, she resets the password to Z10N0101. Freaky.
Indicates that she is a
program because that's not some random password she's
put in. 101 is binary
for 5, which in zero-based binary counting: 000 is 1,
001, is 2, 010 is 3,
011 is 4, 100 is 5, 101 is 6 - And this is the 6th
version of the Matrix!
Then there's 303. 303 is the room Neo got shot in
Matrix 1, the Oracle lives
in room 303, it's also the hotel room number Trinity
is in in Matrix 1 and
it's seen at the end when Neo fights the Agents and
Smith and begins to
literally see the code that makes up the Matrix. 101 x
3 = 303, a trilogy, 3
+ 0 + 3 = 6 = the 6th Matrix. Trinity means 3.


Who is the "mother" that the Architect refers to?
The Architect says, "Please," in an almost
disapproving sense when Neo
suggests the Oracle, but does not reveal who it really
is or even directly
that Neo is wrong. The architect was the one who
created the Matrix; the
co-creator is neither Persephone nor the Oracle. Both
of them are only
programs that have a purpose in the matrix, just like
the rest. The
Architect is in charge of the Matrix world and the
co-creator is in charge
of Zion. She has almost the same age as the Architect.
Therefore, that woman
is the Head Counsellor, the only woman of importance
that lives in Zion and
the one who asked for the two captains to volunteer at
the council meeting.
She's the one who knew all along about the Matrix. She
was the one who told
Zion's Defence Minister to cool off and to let
Morpheus do his work so
things could go as planned.
Or alternatively, it could indeed be the Oracle. She
is the only program
that truly wants humans to have a free choice... at
the same time, she sees
the future, because she knows the program code - she
is like God - which is
why Seraph protects her - see "Who is Seraph?" below.


What's so special about Neo's avatar?
Neo is a skilled hacker, and his avatar in the Matrix
is based on the person
that founded the AI of the original machines that
eventually took over the
world... How? Take a look at the disc he gave to the
bloke at the door at
the beginning of Matrix 1. It said "DISC AI" on it.
The hollowed book Neo
takes the disc out of is "Simulacra and Simulation" -
a collection of essays
by the French postmodernist philosopher Jean
Baudrillard. He opens it to the
section "on Nihilism" (meaning nothing is truly known,
etc.). "Baudrillard's
concept of simulation is the creation of the real
through conceptual or
'mythological' models which have no connection or
origin in reality. The
model becomes the determinant of our perception of
reality--the real." And
Morpheus says, "Welcome to the desert of the real," in
Matrix 1. I'd say
this book describes The Matrix to a tee. So this disc
contains the key to
the AI, and thus how to destroy the machines, so I
think they'll use this
info in Revolutions to ultimately destroy the
machines, which means he'll
have to go back to the nightclub and find the guy he
gave it to.


Who is Seraph?
The reason Seraph (the chink guy Neo meets before
meeting the Oracle) had
golden code and was so spectacular is that he came
from the first
incarnation of the matrix, which was heaven. "Seraph"
is singular for the
plural "seraphim". The seraphim are the highest choir
of angels and included
amongst others: Lucifer, Gabriele, Raziel and
Malaciah, and they sit on the
8th level of Heaven just one below God. So Seraph will
obviously have a big
part in Revolutions, but whose side will he be on -
the machines or the
humans?? That is the question.

The Twins
They are exiled programs that emulate the human myth
of ghosts as the Oracle
explained. They are programs behaving badly.
Persephone killed one of the
Merovingian's bodyguards with a silver bullet because
he was emulating a
werewolf. So if the Twins could phase into ghost form,
why didn't he when
his arm was trapped in the door of the garage? Was it
because he was wounded
or because he can't phase when his arm is trapped? No
of course not. The
doors of that building, when shut, always led
somewhere else (usually in the
mountains) when opened again without the Keymaker's
key. So if it were
slammed shut due to the Twin phasing into ghost form,
the Twin's arm
would've ended up god knows where, but certainly not
attached to the Twin's
body.
 

Zizou

Senior Member
Apr 21, 2003
3,965
#97
Really good article, helped me solve some of the holes I had from the story.

Though some of them are debatable, and mind be far off from the actual truth. All shall be known next November :)
 

Hydde

Minimiliano Tristelli
Mar 6, 2003
38,709
#98
If this article is 100% the truth,,,then i hitted the spot on my theory in a 80% succes.


But about all the other topics,,,wow i neves thought about those things!! simply espectacular.

The 101 number topic, very cool.

The trinity thing and the love scene: When the movie ended, i thinking on myself the same thing..."why they enfasized so much in the neo-trinity carnal behave??". It was something that was wondering in my head,,,because it was a little out of concept, that sex scene...............If this guy in right,,then it is very important.

About the zion program.....it have sense,,,because that spoon was showed by one of the oracle boys in the first movie,,,,but how it was in zion?? because zion is the "real world", and how neo used his mtrix powers outiside?. Then zion must be a program too. But now my questions is,,,that ¿where is the real world ?.
-I think that zion is the real world,,and my only explanation about neo´s power otside the matrix,,,,is like he is an angel or a saviour or someone that god send to save humnity. The spoom i think that was send by angels,,,jeje so religious dont you think?.

About the Seraph,,i only know one thing. He is be very strong. He fought face to face with neo, and neo was having trouble with him. The lot of smiths,the merovingian crew, and the upgraded agents culd not beat neo, but this guy alone was paired in ability with neo.

The merovingian.
Hey the guy who did this thin have talend.
It could be possible that the mero was the first or the second one. When he was telling to neo and co to see the girl with the cake....his sight was like neo´s one, seeing everything in codification, in other words, like the one.
The theory about persephone and his forbidden love explains this. I was asking in the cinema why she emphasized on this. "She says she wants
him to kiss her so she
can feel what it is like again to be kissed by
something close to human,
just like the Merovingian used to be. Then she says to
Trinity that she
envies her, but that these things are not meant to
last". So this mean that she was the old version of trinity.

About the smith powres,,,yes he explained that when neo killed him, he gained a little of neo´s powers,,,and like avirus, if he beats neo, one more time,,he will gain full control of his abilities as "the one". And he could be the only human working for the matrix, cuz in the first movie, he told to morpheus "in the interrogatory scene" that he was sick of matrix,,and he was looking for freedom.
very very interesting.
 

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