The Lebanese political crisis!!! (16 Viewers)

[ReBeL]

But by nationalizing them, would that really solve the problem? They will forever hold true to their Palestinian roots and as you've said before the likes of Fatah al-Islam don't care about Lebanon. So how would making the innocent Palestinians feel more welcome solve anything?

I'm sure many Palestinians don't want to be Lebanese anyway..

It's not the Lebanese nationality that attracts the Palestinians. Give them another land even on the moon or give them some rights to live their lives where they are, and they'll be satisfied.

And by the way, Fatah Al-Islam doesn't work for liberating Palestine.

 

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[Azzurri7]

so, its not beyond the realm of reality that the Palestinians could be working with Fateh Islam ??

Palestinians refugees are denying that. But If we are to talk some logic, no man can enter any Palestinian refugee unless he's controlled and well known.

So basically, there is some cooperation between the two sides.

And by the way, Rabea, not that I'm the biggest Bashar supporter or anything (on the contrary I can't f*cking stand him or his father) - but if the Bashar regime goes down in Syria, Lebanon border will be uncontrollable.....imagine if there's a security/mokhabarat breakdown in Syria whereby they turn their backs on each other...Lord knows what'll happen only........

It's already uncontrollable man. Every single day weapons are entering from their borders to ours every day. The same in Iraq, you think removing that syrial killer Bashar will make things worse?? in Iraq, things are going out of hands.... 80% of weapons car explosions all these are entering through Syria... and thats Iraqian statistics not American.

How many times did our Army catch/stopped/brough down vans cars or trucks trying to supply weapons to some political parties, even other than Hezbollah, like "Hezb l Awme l Soure" or " Marrada" or and or....

 

[Azzurri7]

On a more serious note, all these problems stem back to one major issue, Palestinian rights. Palestinians in Lebanon are not allowed to work, not allowed to go to public schools, not allowed to be admitted at public hospitals, not allowed to vote, not allowed to own property such as houses, not allowed to open a business.

I think Palestinians in Lebanon have been giving much more than any other country (of course except Jorday, because it's almost Palestinians).... What we have offered the Palestinians hasnt been offered in Syria, Gulf countries and Egypt.

They are 500.000, Palestinian women deliver atleast 5 kids, imagine how would it be given 500.000 Palestinians rights to buy houses and etc.... there are over 7million Lebanese abroad worldwide, States, Brazil, Europe, etc majority of them are dying to return to their country. Lebanon is already like I said 10452km, giving the 500.000 Palestinians all the rights would be insane.


Not to also mention that they carry weapons outside the camps and inside the camps. Lebanese would never have the courage to give them rights like the Lebanese.

Basically they are not allowed to have a normal life.

A normal life is that when you're a guest in a country, you repsect the law, respect the people and dont carry weapons. There's a law, there's an army.

How do you expect us to finish with the Hezbollah weapon issue, if the Palestinians wont ever give up their weapons, Michel Aoun said that few days ago, though I don't like him but I couldnt agree more, never expect Hezbollah to give-up their weapons unless Palestinians in Lebanon give up all their weapons.

Imagine Lebanese party a big one like Hezbollah, giving up their weapons, and Palestinians whom are guests in our country not giving up their weapons. How nice.




.

These Palestinians are living without hope, they are forced to take care of themselves, they are forced to carry arms to protect themselves cos no one will protect them, even the Government.

Protect themselves from what??? Casper? or Israelis???

man, really, time for people to get over it, Abu Ammar isn't alive no more, stop living with illusions prediction when Israelis will attack the Palestinians in Lebanon.

As if if they would have wanted that, they couldnt have done it. BS.

And people ask for the Palestinians to lay down their guns! Why on earth would they do that? These guns are the only thing that gives them a sense of protection and some empowerment.

What a sense. So Palestinians should always carry guns??? If thats the case, I'm more than happy not to see them having any rights. It's a Lebanese right not to allow Palestinians to have any rights since they have guns.

Lebanon isn't Gazza, all I know is that Emil Lahoud is the most retarded president we had through Lebanese history. If the likes of Bachir would be back, the gun by now would have been under the ground hiding. Like what happened first days he took the presidency.

Anyway, life is long, one day, another Bachir will come.

Nationalize all Palestinians in Lebanon. Make them Lebanese, make them feel that they are a part of Lebanon rather than Lebanon's dirty little secret. Give them all the rights a Lebanese has. That way when the gov asks them to lay down their guns, at least they can argue that now that they are Lebanese they dont need the guns, they have the army to protect them.

Thanks but no thanks.

Like I said earlier, they're 500.000, only insane man would give them the Lebanese nationality.

 

[Ahmedios]

Ahmedios,

How do you expect our Army to react? Just sit there and watch, while Fateh try and take over?

Speaking of which, these Fateh people are sooo ready to go to war. For them, war-fare is a way of life. It's all about the path to martyr-dom and eventually the gates of Heaven to be immediately opened up.

This is part of Al-Qaeda psychology/brainwash that people don't understand. And these men are recruited at a young age. They are told that they are fighting an eternal holy war because Islam is threatened by the west, and that they should act now, before the west takes over Islamic countries etc. citing Israel and USA as prime sources of evil.

This is an ultra-fanatical ideology that has to be seriously controlled.

Rhizoid, I know that well and I know how these people think. Of course the army has all the right to end this miserable situation. Moreover, it is the chance of the Lebanese army to get rid of that organisation completely bearing in mind the fact that they a very small group that has no roots in Lebanon.

I mean that the army could've done better with some organisation. Because if the army opted to deal with them more aggressively, it would be a bloody butchery, And this is what Fatah Islam need.

Ahmed,

Fatah & Hamas don't have any authority in that camp, and they had nothing to do with stopping the attack on the camp. The truce was done after the interference of an intermediary in Tripoli. This intermediary was Al-Tawheed Islamic Movement which is a non-extremist sunni Lebanese movement.

Fatah & Hamas can't stop their own mercenary fighters in Gaza. How could they affect the situation in Nahr Al Bared Camp?

This is what I was talking about, Abed. That's why I said what the Palestinian leaders have promised can't be achieved, simply because they lack the authority.

Ahmed & Vinny, There are no Shiite Palestinians at all.

Even in Egypt, there a very small group of Shiites especially after the war on Iraq. I know that the vast majority of the Palestinians are Muslim Sunni, but I thought that there a very few Shiites in the West Bank.

 

[Snoop]

how does this thread have any relation with juve??

looking for attention? :faq1:

Juventuz is not only about Juventus. there are thousands of non-Juve related threads out there..

 

[ReBeL]

Rab, there is nothing called "Guest" (A Person without rights) in another country for more than 60 years.

Do you imagine being a guest (A person without rights) in a country for this period of time?

We're talking about people and needs here.

Ok, here are two options:

1- To treat them as humans.
2- To kick the Palestinians out of Lebanon by forcing them to leave anywhere in the world. This will make the international society know that those people must find a place where they're respected. and as a result, they have to secure a good place for them even if it is in Bermuda Triangle.

I think without making one of the former two options, the Palestinian case won't be solved ever in Lebanon.

It's not a solution to say that I'll host you as a guest for ever. And all of us know that none of those people will go back to his original land, so why delaying the solution?

Either FORCE them to go to another place or make them live just like you.

 

[Snoop]

I can't understand why the Palestinians moaning about their life in Lebanon

did you forget what your beloved leader Arafat was trying to do in Lebanon decades ago? and you are expecting love from Lebanese in return? Lebanese have the all right to behave like this against them.. and I can't believe my fuckin eyes that some members here are telling that it is ok that Palestinians in camps to have guns, what a joke. aren't you aware that there are a lot of your people that are not appreciating the Lebanese to have them in their camps, and they are trying to shit on their face in return? Fathil Islam or others, all these years they only gave headaches to them..

You can't ask to live regular life in Lebanon just like Lebanese.. Because Lebanese are already about to lose their lands and identities.. Half of the people there is combined by Syrians and Hizbollah supporters (who most of their loyalty to Hezbollah over/more (or only) their loyalty to Lebanon). and Imagine if 500 000 Palestinians there have Lebanese passport too, it's not hard to do the math yeah

Giving them the Lebanese Identity is like a suicide, and that's not going to happen.


@ Azzurri: what you claimed is not true about Palestinians life in Syria, they have better life definitely in Syria, they can work and live in cities without any problem, they even have offices (their parties) in Damascus, that's not a secret.

 

[Azzurri7]

@ Azzurri: what you claimed is not true about Palestinians life in Syria, they have better life definitely in Syria, they can work and live in cities without any problem, they even have offices (their parties) in Damascus, that's not a secret.

Maybe I didn't explain my point well. But what I mean is that 500.000, meaning half million people are in a land that doesn't really fit Lebanese problems itself and Lebanese people.

I doubt any other country in the world that is soo small like Lebanon would have hosted 500.000 refugees. thats one point.

Other is that, Hafez Assad in Syria treated them much worse than how they were treated in Lebanon, he killed thousands of them in order not see one single Palestinian carrying pistol or knife. The same in Jordan and other countries.

Lebanon is the only country where Palestinians are having weapons.

Also, in Lebanon, whenever Palestinians they feel like making a demonstrations, they make it, burning tires doing all negative things a human can make.

I wonder what tactics Bashar will use with them if one day they decided to make any demonstrations. Yet, they keep moaning about our gov since a decade and bashing us like never. I also wonder what King Abdullah will do to them in Jordan if they insulted him in public. agian and again, they moan and bash Lebanon.

 

[Snoop]

Maybe I didn't explain my point well. But what I mean is that 500.000, meaning half million people are in a land that doesn't really fit Lebanese problems itself and Lebanese people.
I doubt any other country in the world that is soo small like Lebanon would have hosted 500.000 refugees. thats one point.

you did explain good, but got me wrong, I am not saying who is treating them better, only about the life. They are safer in Syria, Because Syria knew how to control them, and I am not blaming Lebanese for anything, I know they tried their best

Other is that, Hafez Assad in Syria treated them much worse than how they were treated in Lebanon, he killed thousands of them in order not see one single Palestinian carrying pistol or knife. The same in Jordan and other countries.

some will feel this harsh , but he did what he has to do, that's why you don't see them causing any troubles to anyone in Syria.

I wonder what tactics Bashar will use with them if one day they decided to make any demonstrations.

nothing will be changed, just like the old days, they won't demonstrate, nor will have any weapon, and continue their lives in safe.

 

[Boudz]

I think Palestinians in Lebanon have been giving much more than any other country (of course except Jorday, because it's almost Palestinians).... What we have offered the Palestinians hasnt been offered in Syria, Gulf countries and Egypt.

What Exactly have the Palestinians been offered? Please enlighten me.

They are 500.000, Palestinian women deliver at least 5 kids, imagine how would it be given 500.000 Palestinians rights to buy houses and etc.... there are over 7million Lebanese abroad worldwide, States, Brazil, Europe, etc majority of them are dying to return to their country. Lebanon is already like I said 10452km, giving the 500.000 Palestinians all the rights would be insane.

So basically its okay for anyone in the world to be allowed to buy homes in Lebanon, as long as they don't stay in it. It's okay for a person from the Gulf to buy a house cos they will only visit a few weeks a year.

A normal life is that when you're a guest in a country, you repsect the law, respect the people and dont carry weapons. There's a law, there's an army.

Tell that to the survivors of Sabra and Shatilla if there are any.

What a sense. So Palestinians should always carry guns??? If thats the case, I'm more than happy not to see them having any rights. It's a Lebanese right not to allow Palestinians to have any rights since they have guns.

As long as there is no one to protect them, and as long as they live like caged animals then HELL YES they should carry weapons. Thats the only thing they have to barter with for some HUMAN RIGHTS!

Lebanon isn't Gazza, all I know is that Emil Lahoud is the most retarded president we had through Lebanese history. If the likes of Bachir would be back, the gun by now would have been under the ground hiding. Like what happened first days he took the presidency.
Anyway, life is long, one day, another Bachir will come.

Stop living in the past

Like I said earlier, they're 500.000, only insane man would give them the Lebanese nationality.

Whats ur genius suggestion, have the same mentality as the government has? just sweep them under the rug? ignore them and curse them when the react to being ignored?
Sorry man, your way of thinking is the same old repetitive lazy bullshit that hasnt worked before and wont work ever.
Stop criticizing if its not constructive, we have an entire government who does that already.

 

[Boudz]

To Snoop:
Please correct me if I understood wrong cos I really do hope that I misunderstood.
You're saying that the in order for Palestinians to be controlled they have to put them on a very tight leash??? Do you actually believe that will work?
Ask the Israeli government if that tactic works.

 

[Snoop]

I don't know how it works in Israel, but explain me how it is working in Syria.. how are the Ikhwan Muslmeen, Kurds, Palestinians and others are calm in Syria.

and I tell you something else. If things like this happens in Syria, and if they open fire to the army, you really have no clue what happens to all of them, they will probably not see the sunlight the rest of their lives, at least..

 

[Boudz]

I don't know how it works in Israel, but explain me how it is working in Syria.. how are the Ikhwan Muslmeen, Kurds, Palestinians and others are calm in Syria.

1- The Palestinians have no reason to be violent there.
2- As an aftermath of the civil war, alot of people dislike the Palestinians, alot of people also dislike alot of other people. Theres so much bad blood from the war that tensions will always be high. There is less bad history between the Palestinians in Syria and other factions in Syria so of course the Palestinians there are calm cos the country is calm, or less calm than here.

and I tell you something else. If things like this happens in Syria, and if they open fire to the army, you really have no clue what happens to all of them, they will probably not see the sunlight the rest of their lives, at least..

Thank you for reminding us how good the Palestinians have it in Lebanon.

 

[Azzurri7]

What Exactly have the Palestinians been offered? Please enlighten me.

Read my prev post. I explained what they have been offered.

...and to add something, in order to live a better life you should go for it and not expect others to do it for you. meaning, when Palestinians between THEMSELVES decide when to give up their weapons, then our gov will sit down to discuss the possibility of offering the Palestinians more.

So long they're living in a dream and illusion having weapons to protect themselves from god knows whom, there will be no help. It's obvious.

Hezbollah wont accept that, Christians wont accept that, Druz wont accept that, no one.

So basically its okay for anyone in the world to be allowed to buy homes in Lebanon, as long as they don't stay in it. It's okay for a person from the Gulf to buy a house cos they will only visit a few weeks a year.

You are mixing things and making no sense.

Foreigners can't be compared to the Palestinian situation. There are Americans, Saudis, British etc buying houses every year just to spend couple of weeks in Lebanon. Thats something normal.

But what's NOT normal, is to give 500.000 people green light to buy houses, and give them the citizen-ship in which they're not really interested in.

Tell that to the survivors of Sabra and Shatilla if there are any.

Didn't you just ask me to stop living in the past???

As long as there is no one to protect them, and as long as they live like caged animals then HELL YES they should carry weapons. Thats the only thing they have to barter with for some HUMAN RIGHTS!

Carrying weapons in a foreign country isnt exactly a human right. It's more like a taking advantage of this country. and thats why I told you I feel ashamed to have a president such as Emil Lahoud.

Stop living in the past

That wasnt my point. I dont live in a past. But what I meant is that days are coming, and one day you'll find someone with Bachirs mentality.

Whats ur genius suggestion, have the same mentality as the government has? just sweep them under the rug? ignore them and curse them when the react to being ignored?
Sorry man, your way of thinking is the same old repetitive lazy bullshit that hasnt worked before and wont work ever.
Stop criticizing if its not constructive, we have an entire government who does that already.

I believe I have all the rights to criticize, because thats MY country, thats where MY kids will be living, thats where I will live my life and open my own business soon. THEM on the other hand, have no rights to criticize no one.

Many other countries can give them much more stability if thats what you're reffering to other than Lebanon. They have the options to leave, dont they?

 

[Azzurri7]

1- The Palestinians have no reason to be violent there.
2- As an aftermath of the civil war, alot of people dislike the Palestinians, alot of people also dislike alot of other people. Theres so much bad blood from the war that tensions will always be high. There is less bad history between the Palestinians in Syria and other factions in Syria so of course the Palestinians there are calm cos the country is calm, or less calm than here.

Seems like you didnt follow the history well. Ask Abu Ammar fighters during the war, who gave the green light for the Sabra&Shatilla that day....maybe by then you'll know.

 

[ReBeL]

I can't understand why the Palestinians moaning about their life in Lebanon

Did you try living like them one day?

did you forget what your beloved leader Arafat was trying to do in Lebanon decades ago? and you are expecting love from Lebanese in return? Lebanese have the all right to behave like this against them..

So, because of a war the palestinians were part of it before 30 years, we should hang all the generations of palestinians because maybe someone of them will make the same thing!!

Sounds logical to me.

and I can't believe my fuckin eyes that some members here are telling that it is ok that Palestinians in camps to have guns, what a joke. aren't you aware that there are a lot of your people that are not appreciating the Lebanese to have them in their camps, and they are trying to shit on their face in return? Fathil Islam or others, all these years they only gave headaches to them..

DO you want to convince me that if no armed people were around camps, people inside camps would feel safer??

How many times did the Lebanese army try to get in 3ain El-Helweh camp claiming that some thieves are inside it?

I'm sure they will get in it one day in the future and make horrible acts and build another stadium over the corpses. It's nothing new to a brave army like that one, you know.

You can't ask to live regular life in Lebanon just like Lebanese.. Because Lebanese are already about to lose their lands and identities.. Half of the people there is combined by Syrians and Hizbollah supporters (who most of their loyalty to Hezbollah over/more (or only) their loyalty to Lebanon). and Imagine if 500 000 Palestinians there have Lebanese passport too, it's not hard to do the math yeah

Giving them the Lebanese Identity is like a suicide, and that's not going to happen.

If the Lebanese feel so scared of the palestinian existence and population, WHY DON'T THEY SAY IT LOUDLY AND ASK UN TO FIND ANOTHER PLACE FOR THEM??

Lebanon is the only country where Palestinians are having weapons.

Because they don't need them in other countries. They have no enemies who want a little chance to kill them, you know.

Also, in Lebanon, whenever Palestinians they feel like making a demonstrations, they make it, burning tires doing all negative things a human can make.

It's not a trade mark for only palestinians to do so, Rab. You know what happened between the lebanese people themselves before afew months.

I also wonder what King Abdullah will do to them in Jordan if they insulted him in public. agian and again, they moan and bash Lebanon.

Why would they insult him?

Palestinians in Jordan have most of the rights available to the normal citizen. As long as they have nothing to do with politics, nobody can say any word to them. No army and no governmental work for them in Jordan is nothing compared with being forbidden from working more than 60 professions in Lebanon.

you did explain good, but got me wrong, I am not saying who is treating them better, only about the life. They are safer in Syria, Because Syria knew how to control them, and I am not blaming Lebanese for anything, I know they tried their best

some will feel this harsh , but he did what he has to do, that's why you don't see them causing any troubles to anyone in Syria.

SO, you support killing people and arresting them for stupid reasons. Nice.

I don't know how it works in Israel, but explain me how it is working in Syria.. how are the Ikhwan Muslmeen, Kurds, Palestinians and others are calm in Syria.

and I tell you something else. If things like this happens in Syria, and if they open fire to the army, you really have no clue what happens to all of them, they will probably not see the sunlight the rest of their lives, at least..

Again, why would they open fire on the Syrian army when the Syrian people treat them like humans. And please tell me what you're meaning with the bolded sentence...

Many other countries can give them much more stability if thats what you're reffering to other than Lebanon. They have the options to leave, dont they?

No, they don't.

Seems like you didnt follow the history well. Ask Abu Ammar fighters during the war, who gave the green light for the Sabra&Shatilla that day....maybe by then you'll know.

Sharon and 7baiqa, my dear...

Nobody else had anything to do with it.

 

[Boudz]

I believe I have all the rights to criticize, because thats MY country, thats where MY kids will be living, thats where I will live my life and open my own business soon. THEM on the other hand, have no rights to criticize no one.

Guess where my kids will be living? On the same land as the one your kids will. The only difference is my kid's will have zero human rights just because of the origin of their ancestors.

Many other countries can give them much more stability if thats what you're reffering to other than Lebanon. They have the options to leave, dont they?

Leave to where? To America to live the American dream? To Europe? Just say it, to Syria.

 

[Azzurri7]

So, because of a war the palestinians were part of it before 30 years, we should hang all the generations of palestinians because maybe someone of them will make the same thing!!

"There's no problem making a mistake, but it's a shame if you repeat the same mistake"

To explain it

30years ago, war started in Lebanon, thanks to Palestine. This time we have all the rights to prevent this happenin in Lebanon just because of Palestine.... we have the rights to protect ourselves.

DO you want to convince me that if no armed people were around camps, people inside camps would feel safer??

They would be treated better. maybe not perfect but better.

How many times did the Lebanese army try to get in 3ain El-Helweh camp claiming that some thieves are inside it?

Mann, 3ain El Helweh camp is IN Lebanon not Palestine. Lebanese Army have all the rights to enter any camp, any day any time. You can't turn camps into States, really.

Because they don't need them in other countries. They have no enemies who want a little chance to kill them, you know.

Yes, we Lebanese are devils. we're devils because we gave you a place to stay at.

It's not a trade mark for only palestinians to do so, Rab. You know what happened between the lebanese people themselves before afew months.

It's normal in every country clashes to happen between people from same country... France, Turkey, Ukrain, many other countries.

But whats not normal to come into a country running from another country, and create a war from a land that doesnt belong to them.

 

[Azzurri7]

Guess where my kids will be living? On the same land as the one your kids will. The only difference is my kid's will have zero human rights just because of the origin of their ancestors.

True, so in order to see your kids living a good life in Lebanon, as a Palestinian you shouldnt accept your son to be born seein weapons all over.

Day Palestinians will give up their weapons and like I said stop living the Israeli's casper and illusions, am 100% sure, we can give them more safe they can live like they've always wanted to.

Leave to where? To America to live the American dream? To Europe? Just say it, to Syria.

What?

How many Palestinians left from Lebanon to States, to Europe? to and to... there are Palestinians everywhere man.

 

[Eddy]

It's normal in every country clashes to happen between people from same country... France, Turkey, Ukrain, many other countries.

But whats not normal to come into a country running from another country, and create a war from a land that doesnt belong to them.

Very True Rab. Turkey is a reliable example now.