The heart of the problem ?? (1 Viewer)

#10

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2002
6,814
#1
When ever i have watched juve this season, we have appeared to lack bit , but also any form of class. Davids is gone and we have to get over it. It is well documented that our defense has been crap, but the season before that it was our strike force....imo the real problem lies in midfield.

When we had zizou our play orientated around his genius, but when neddy replaced him we switched to a more team scoring ethos, which imo requires wide players. but we have neither wide player or a playmaker....trouble no?? Camo is our only winger...and he isnt always in the best of form. Neddy is class, but isnt a playmaker. No balance on the left at all....we have no left sided players.

Attacking players???? Neddy

Defensive...Conte, appiah,tac, enzo(blasi,brighi, biacco) on loan.

Our midifield lack real genius AND width, we rely on pace, but when ur defece has no defence, and ur midfield is pretty sluggish, what ya gonna do?? TO play with pace ur whole team needs to be mobile. Our moble players are Zambo, neddy and arguebly appiah. Miccoli is more of a spourt forward, liek dyo. Dp...not his game, neither trez's.

Defender.....lmao, only zambo has any form of pace.

Lookign at it, we have no playmaker or winger, thus rely on pace and muscle instead of artistry and genius. But we have no real pace. The only forms of artistry are dp....shiute this year, and mic, ditto.

We need midifelder who can pass, like enzo, players who can control and play on the ball, not jus smack it up the pitch.Camo, needs to get his act together. We dont really pass the ball well imo..to give a good comparison of team....we play like england...not good at all.

If i was moggi/lippi, id invest in young mobile defender such as mexes, evra, rogi. Good passing and creative midfieder, not players like blasi, but more like a rothen, a pizzaro, a xavi...somebody who can play box to box. But also wide men such as rother who have left feet, monty is our only left footer....great variation there :groan:.

Forwards..we dont need any....we need new defender/midifelders, pessotto and conte should no be thought of as first teamers, imo they our hampering our future progression (yes conte has done a good job).

Overall, we cont blame jus defense, our midifeld is problematic as well.
 

Mark

The Informer
Administrator
Dec 19, 2003
87,147
#3
or take whatever Milan are using. ;)
I can't believe how Pancaro(Lazio reject), Cafu(I thought the guy was done) and many more run like hell and nobody talks about it. I don't want to start anything but when Zeman accused Juve of being doped most of them agreed. Why not say that about milan even if it's not true?
 
OP
OP
#10

#10

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2002
6,814
#4
guess jank fits the bill cos we need players who can pass, specifically left footed.
 
OP
OP
#10

#10

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2002
6,814
#5
++ [ originally posted by mark77 ] ++
or take whatever Milan are using. ;)
I can't believe how Pancaro(Lazio reject), Cafu(I thought the guy was done) and many more run like hell and nobody talks about it. I don't want to start any problems but when Zeman accused Juve of being doped most of them agreed. Why not say that about milan even if it's not true?
cafu has constipation from his roma days with totti :D..thats why is running all days so fast...las if there is a rocketr upa hisa buma
 
Jul 12, 2002
5,666
#9
John, you are correct. The heart of the problem lies in the midfield. Davids’ departure has caused some serious problems for us. He provided everything that we lack: pace, passing, and creativity. Even so, that does not fully account for the terrible form of the midfield. Camoranesi has been much criticized for his inconsistency, but I would submit that he isn’t the player we need even when on form. He’s not exceptionally fast, nor does he cross well, nor does he make good runs. In fact, the only thing that he does well is the through ball. That’s good, but he’s one dimensional, and I think that his inconsistency comes down to whether or not the opposing defense has figured out his one-dimensionality.

Appiah has suffered a critical loss of form, and that is unfortunate as he was supposed to replace Davids. But, the very fact that he was supposed to replace Davids shows the lack of tactical planning that went into that. Appiah may have Davids’ pace and tackling ability, but he certainly doesn’t have Davids’ passing ability or creativity. Meanwhile, Tacchinardi has similarly fallen into terrible form. He was much praised last year, but like I said then, his success is very much dependant upon his midfield partner. Without Davids, Tacchinardi’s lack of pace and passing skills are highlighted and exposed. In order to cope with all of this, Nedved has put the entire midfield on his back, attempting to make up for the poor performances of his teammates, but he is failing to do anything well this year.

The midfield is the problem, but the cause of this problem is the same as the cause of the problems to all the other areas on the pitch. That cause is the policy of purchasing players who have performed well for a year or less and using them to replace players who have performed well for years and proven themselves to be class. Appiah, Legro, and Camo all were bought after showing good performances for a season. Prior to that season they were all crap, and now they are returning to that base level of form. I see the same thing shaping up for next year, as we appear to be on the way to purchasing Jankulovski. He fits that same bill. Also, we’ll probably have Brighi and Blasi returning and they both fall into that class too.

What we need is to buy players who have shown that they are reliable for more than just one season. Otherwise, we’ll be left with the same problems that we have this year.
 

Hydde

Duke NUKEM
Mar 6, 2003
36,154
#11
++ [ originally posted by Ian ] ++
John, you are correct. The heart of the problem lies in the midfield. Davids’ departure has caused some serious problems for us. He provided everything that we lack: pace, passing, and creativity. Even so, that does not fully account for the terrible form of the midfield. Camoranesi has been much criticized for his inconsistency, but I would submit that he isn’t the player we need even when on form. He’s not exceptionally fast, nor does he cross well, nor does he make good runs. In fact, the only thing that he does well is the through ball. That’s good, but he’s one dimensional, and I think that his inconsistency comes down to whether or not the opposing defense has figured out his one-dimensionality.

Appiah has suffered a critical loss of form, and that is unfortunate as he was supposed to replace Davids. But, the very fact that he was supposed to replace Davids shows the lack of tactical planning that went into that. Appiah may have Davids’ pace and tackling ability, but he certainly doesn’t have Davids’ passing ability or creativity. Meanwhile, Tacchinardi has similarly fallen into terrible form. He was much praised last year, but like I said then, his success is very much dependant upon his midfield partner. Without Davids, Tacchinardi’s lack of pace and passing skills are highlighted and exposed. In order to cope with all of this, Nedved has put the entire midfield on his back, attempting to make up for the poor performances of his teammates, but he is failing to do anything well this year.

The midfield is the problem, but the cause of this problem is the same as the cause of the problems to all the other areas on the pitch. That cause is the policy of purchasing players who have performed well for a year or less and using them to replace players who have performed well for years and proven themselves to be class. Appiah, Legro, and Camo all were bought after showing good performances for a season. Prior to that season they were all crap, and now they are returning to that base level of form. I see the same thing shaping up for next year, as we appear to be on the way to purchasing Jankulovski. He fits that same bill. Also, we’ll probably have Brighi and Blasi returning and they both fall into that class too.

What we need is to buy players who have shown that they are reliable for more than just one season. Otherwise, we’ll be left with the same problems that we have this year.
sadly, i have the same feeling as you.

maybe we arein the beggining of a long long nightmare.
 

Hydde

Duke NUKEM
Mar 6, 2003
36,154
#13
Tell that to moggi and lippi.

Hopefully....maybe moggi will be forced to do drastic changes in some departments..... the pressure is so high.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
101,651
#15
Finally a thread that everyone agrees on. No question that the biggest problem for Juve has been the defence and midfield, but I think the latter of the two is where the problem originated. If the midfield cannot do its job effectively, more specifically control the pace of play and keep posession, more and moe pressure is put on the defence. And with an aging defence back there, your definitly not in for a good season. No offense to Nedved or anything, he is awesome, but he is no Zinedine Zidane. He cannot control the pace of play because he is not the most creative of players and does not have a good passing range. This lack of creativity, which escalades into an ineffective midfield, makes the defence look worse than what it is.

Now don't get me wrong, our defence is very weak as well.

But to be succesful, Moggi must buy another playmaker to help the creative engines. Someone needs to step into that midfield and control the pace of play, or we will be in for another torrid season next year. Moggi needs to buy either Diego, Aimar, Rosicky, or Van der Vaart, preferably VDV, to cure this lack of midfield flair.

I'm sorry to say this, but midfield flair is well part of Milan's game, as they have the brilliant Kaka and Pirlo controlling it. For Juve, we can easily counter this midfield, or maybe even better it with Nedved doing the dirty work, and with VDV or like Aimar controlling the pace and style of play. Now this would be an effective midfield!

These problems are as clear as the Mediteranian Sea, and if Moggi does not fix them.......well, we all know what that means.:down:
 

Hydde

Duke NUKEM
Mar 6, 2003
36,154
#16
++ [ originally posted by Andrea Becchi ] ++


I'm sorry to say this, but midfield flair is well part of Milan's game, as they have the brilliant Kaka and Pirlo controlling it. For Juve, we can easily counter this midfield, or maybe even better it with Nedved doing the dirty work, and with VDV or like Aimar controlling the pace and style of play. Now this would be an effective midfield!
yep...we can change nedved to the left, let this new guy control the pace and use maresca as a pirlo. Maresca can make very good passes when he wants to.

Again... i think we have to do 4 good signings , or maybe 3...and our problems will decrese a lot.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
101,651
#17
++ [ originally posted by Hydde ] ++


yep...we can change nedved to the left, let this new guy control the pace and use maresca as a pirlo. Maresca can make very good passes when he wants to.

Again... i think we have to do 4 good signings , or maybe 3...and our problems will decrese a lot.

That is exactly what I am thinking Hydde. Maresca would be slotted into the midfield holding role in place of Tacchinardi, thus being like a Pirlo. Either Appiah or Blasi or Taccha will occupy a right midfield spot, kind of like a Gattuso for Milan. Nedved will be allowed to roam on the left side of the mid, making good supporting runs up the left side while still getting very much involved with the attack. The final piece of the puzzel will be concluded with the arrival of a class playmaker, whether it be VDV, Diego, Rosicky, or Aimar, just one of those guys will do. Hopefully Van der Vaart will arrive and control the pace of play with his great distribution and vision. VDV can easily be the next Zidane, actually they are very much alike!

The passing range of Maresca combined with the grit of Appiah or another defensive middy, along with Nedved causing havoc on the left side would be a great complement to the leader of the midfield, Raffael Van Der Vaart. IMO this midfield would be just as good, or even better than Milan's or any other team's midfield.
 

Adrian

Senior Member
Jan 31, 2003
4,242
#18
lets not ignore our forward structure also. its not like our current forwards are playing great.

The defence just needs players who can actually run and keep up with the pace of todays game. we all know that players like mexes, trabelsi and ferrari would fix it.

i dont think Davids would make such a huge difference right now. Sure, he made tacchinardi look better than he actually is, but in the end, i dont think juve were ever this bad while davids was playing. the team as a whole is performing badly.

What i think we need is a great DM, ie. Emerson. Tacchinardi gives us nothing but defensiveness as Ian mentioned. and even then, he isnt exactly world class. then playing off a player like emerson, you could have maresca. just by having that alone, you suddenly have added better passing, better movement, good two way play and solidarity in midfield. Now, whether or not you want to play Nedved behind the forwards or alongside emerson and maresca, at least we dont have to rely soley on nedved to do all the work rate.

me personally, i'd rather have nedved playing alongside emerson and maresca as i think he would be twice the player camoranesi is. buying a good right back like trabelsi would take care of our wingplay also. and of course having nedved there as well would be ace.

then behind the forwards, we should really look at a playmaker. someone who can open defences up with slick passing and a player who scores often. a player who can do what kaka is doing now for milan. in the end, we need more attacking options. more channels so to speak. we rely on nedved and del piero to do all the creating. and the players try to use camoranesi as well and he isnt good enough in my opinion.

we havent had good creativity since zidane left. and even then, it was only del piero and zidane who created anyway. i think we need to change this and make the team create as a whole. this includes our forwards. del piero and miccoli are fine in this department, but i dont think di vaio is that great. a player like zlatan would be very good. he is very active, he can create for others and he has size about him as well.

imagine having emerson, maresca, nedved, playmaker*, del piero and zlatan.

And in terms of drastic changes, they cant be avoided this summer. poor decision making over the past 3 seasons has caused this. even if these drastic changes makes us not win naything again next season, at least its a rebuilding process and we are looking at the future. right now, we are just embarrassing our club.
 

Hydde

Duke NUKEM
Mar 6, 2003
36,154
#19
word.

We have to face the fact that even when doing good signings.. it doesnt mean that we will destroy next season... but we need to rebuild our team no matter what.


what sa about tachinardi is true. Some people say that appiah needs another opportunity, and he will receive it, but he will have to improve a lot if he wants to stay in the club.
Maresca can play as a holding midfielder, becaus eof his passing ability... but he is not a real holding midifleder and he lacks the agressivity and technique in the tackling sector. We need a player in the davids-gattuso line...to compliment maresca and to be a real thread in the defensive mid sector.

About the strikers...im not much worried aboput it...because if we reinforce the dfense and the mid...they will increase their perfomrances naturally.

"Supposedly" Trezeguet will be sold...so a replacement will be needed.


About van der vart... it would be a dream come true... but i dont see it happening...and he will be so expensive that will cost maybe the Trezeguet money itself....well ok,,,a little less, but he will be expensive anyways.-
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
101,651
#20
We can always hope though. VDV would cost Moggi 20 million Euros, so seeling Trez for 27 million Euros would be a good start. Maybe by selling Thuram for a stretched amount of 10 million we could possibly do some business for VDV. Don't forget that Tudor is probably heading towards Ajax this summer, so that 20 could go down.........

Maybe Diego would be the cheapest and most easy to get. But I'd rather see VDV for obvious reasons. He is the next Zidane.
 

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