The Financial Situation (62 Viewers)

[italiacalcio10]

You cant just multiply revenue. A large part of revenue cames from marketpool tv rights so unless Seria A gets reduced to 12 teams and you still have the same marketpool you wouldent get revenues like that. The same goes for sponsordeals and matchday revenue.

Yeah, I realize that, but Serie A TV rights aren't exactly equitable.

This isn't perfect, but in 2012-2013...

Ultimately, the largest teams teams earn more based on a number of factors, and many of those factors would be amplified with consolidation. Furthermore, many of those teams would consistently make the UCL.

According to some website I found, this is how rights are distributed:
s per the new deal, current Champions can pocket 122.8 million euros per season, last season they earn 91.3 million euros as the highest earner of the Serie A. While the bottom of the table Sassuolo received 20.8 million euros as the lowest earner of Serie A.

Serie A Prize Money 2015-16 Fund Breakdown:
Unlike Premier League where prize money is distributed at the end of Season, in Serie A the total Prize money is determined at the start of the season primarily based on the historic information.

Here is the complete breakdown how Prize money is split in Serie A:

Prize money of Serie A is divided into five parts;

Equal Share:
Much like Premier League, each club gets the equal share of the prize money, which makes 40% of total prize money. Each Club receives 16.2€ million on the fixed bases.

Supporters Index:
It contains the 25% of Prize money. The Supporters index is determined by three different Italian research companies. The poll is conducted to determine where Italians are football enthusiast and which team they support and prize money is distributed completely based on the information received from them.

Town Population:
Serie A prize money also distributed on the province size. The A.S Roma earns 7€ million more than any other team while both Juventus and Torino receive the same as Clubs is based in Turin. Siena and Chievo just earn €600,000.

Last Season Performance:
5% of Prize money is distributed according to team finishing position in last season.

Last Five Season Performance:
15% of prize is allocated based on the club League position for last five Seasons.

Historical Result:
10% of the prize money is given to Clubs based on their League placing since 1946.

So a good proportion is directly linked to scale, and the part that isn't would certainly be offset by better economies of scale on gate receipts etc. Economically, it would make a ton of sense, but would never happen.

As for the EPL, London metro population is 13 million vs. Milan/Rome at 5 & 4 million. Part of the EPL's advantage is its superior international recognition, and the relative strength of the UK's economy. That being said, London can really support 3 huge teams, and 1 mid table team right now, which is ~3.5 million people per club. Roma comparatively has 2 million per club, in a city that currently is less affluent than London.

If Serie A was still the standard for international football, it probably could support more teams in big cities, but since it isn't anymore, the league is saddled with debt, and the domestic economy is stagnant, the league should adapt. If 2 teams are no longer viable, M&A is the prudent action. But as I said, it would never happen.

But it is truly baffling that Verona & Genoa have two teams. It makes no financial sense.

 

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[Elvin]

This talk doesnt make sense mate. The many derbies and uncompromising rivalries is what makes Serie A the most passionate league in the world.
Sooner or latet calcio will rise again.

 

[italiacalcio10]

This talk doesnt make sense mate. The many derbies and uncompromising rivalries is what makes Serie A the most passionate league in the world.
Sooner or latet calcio will rise again.

Unfortunately, until Italy as a country gets its act together, this is doubtful.

 

[LiquidPLP]

Unfortunately, until Italy as a country gets its act together, this is doubtful.

So at the end of the day it's not about merging the clubs, but more about management and overall state of country's economy?

 

[dolph]

Yeah, I realize that, but Serie A TV rights aren't exactly equitable.

This isn't perfect, but in 2012-2013...

Ultimately, the largest teams teams earn more based on a number of factors, and many of those factors would be amplified with consolidation. Furthermore, many of those teams would consistently make the UCL.

According to some website I found, this is how rights are distributed:
s per the new deal, current Champions can pocket 122.8 million euros per season, last season they earn 91.3 million euros as the highest earner of the Serie A. While the bottom of the table Sassuolo received 20.8 million euros as the lowest earner of Serie A.

Serie A Prize Money 2015-16 Fund Breakdown:
Unlike Premier League where prize money is distributed at the end of Season, in Serie A the total Prize money is determined at the start of the season primarily based on the historic information.

Here is the complete breakdown how Prize money is split in Serie A:

Prize money of Serie A is divided into five parts;

Equal Share:
Much like Premier League, each club gets the equal share of the prize money, which makes 40% of total prize money. Each Club receives 16.2€ million on the fixed bases.

Supporters Index:
It contains the 25% of Prize money. The Supporters index is determined by three different Italian research companies. The poll is conducted to determine where Italians are football enthusiast and which team they support and prize money is distributed completely based on the information received from them.

Town Population:
Serie A prize money also distributed on the province size. The A.S Roma earns 7€ million more than any other team while both Juventus and Torino receive the same as Clubs is based in Turin. Siena and Chievo just earn €600,000.

Last Season Performance:
5% of Prize money is distributed according to team finishing position in last season.

Last Five Season Performance:
15% of prize is allocated based on the club League position for last five Seasons.

Historical Result:
10% of the prize money is given to Clubs based on their League placing since 1946.

So a good proportion is directly linked to scale, and the part that isn't would certainly be offset by better economies of scale on gate receipts etc. Economically, it would make a ton of sense, but would never happen.

As for the EPL, London metro population is 13 million vs. Milan/Rome at 5 & 4 million. Part of the EPL's advantage is its superior international recognition, and the relative strength of the UK's economy. That being said, London can really support 3 huge teams, and 1 mid table team right now, which is ~3.5 million people per club. Roma comparatively has 2 million per club, in a city that currently is less affluent than London.

If Serie A was still the standard for international football, it probably could support more teams in big cities, but since it isn't anymore, the league is saddled with debt, and the domestic economy is stagnant, the league should adapt. If 2 teams are no longer viable, M&A is the prudent action. But as I said, it would never happen.

But it is truly baffling that Verona & Genoa have two teams. It makes no financial sense.

As you said its an extremely theoretical discussion as it is not possible in real life.
I kind of see what your point is but then again if we are talking top teams I dont think that the size of the home city and the size of the population has much to do with there possibilities to create revenue. Teams like Barca, Real, Bayern, Juve are global corporations and they have transended those microinvoroments they are in.

 

[Valerio.]

As you said its an extremely theoretical discussion as it is not possible in real life.
I kind of see what your point is but then again if we are talking top teams I dont think that the size of the home city and the size of the population has much to do with there possibilities to create revenue. Teams like Barca, Real, Bayern, Juve are global corporations and they have transended those microinvoroments they are in.

then why the hell did Juventus managment ordered a 41k big stadio?
Tough we have our home in Turn which is a 1m people city we still fail with out "global corporation" situation to fill it.

 

[TueF]

then why the hell did Juventus managment ordered a 41k big stadio?
Tough we have our home in Turn which is a 1m people city we still fail with out "global corporation" situation to fill it.

Because average attendance is not directly proportional with match day income.

Dortmund, for instance, has an average attendance that is a third higher than Arsenal's, yet Arsenal makes four times as much as Dortmund in match day income. It's not as important how many people you can cram into the stadium as how much you can get them to pay in the first place. And in this regard we're handicapped by circumstances out of our control - the quality of Serie A, the Italian economoy etc.

Besides, our match day income is actually quite decent. Not on par with the frontrunners yet but still decent. What's really holding us back is commercial income where the top clubs - Real, Barcelona, Bayern and PSG - all make around €250m or more while we make about €75m.

 

[italiacalcio10]

So at the end of the day it's not about merging the clubs, but more about management and overall state of country's economy?

Well, it is more than the teams in each market should be sized to the number that the market can sustain. In the EPL's case, with a stronger domestic economy, and growing international exposure, the number is higher. Serie A is declining internationally, and the domestic economy is stagnant, meaning that in order to support international level squads (given modern wage structures), there would need to be intra-market consolidation. That being said, you could the see expansion if it helped reinvigorate the league, and grow international reputation.

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Because average attendance is not directly proportional with match day income.

Dortmund, for instance, has an average attendance that is a third higher than Arsenal's, yet Arsenal makes four times as much as Dortmund in match day income. It's not as important how many people you can cram into the stadium as how much you can get them to pay in the first place. And in this regard we're handicapped by circumstances out of our control - the quality of Serie A, the Italian economoy etc.

Besides, our match day income is actually quite decent. Not on par with the frontrunners yet but still decent. What's really holding us back is commercial income where the top clubs - Real, Barcelona, Bayern and PSG - all make around €250m or more while we make about €75m.

We're also the least likely to benefit from any sort of consolidation. Our stadium is sized correctly, we have nearly all the market-share in the city, we are in a more wealthy part of Italy, and our international reputation remains strong in spite of a weaker league because of our domestic dominance and our recently strong international performances. Would consolidation help Genoa, Milan, Roma, and Verona? Certainly.

 

[JuveID]

Well, it is more than the teams in each market should be sized to the number that the market can sustain. In the EPL's case, with a stronger domestic economy, and growing international exposure, the number is higher. Serie A is declining internationally, and the domestic economy is stagnant, meaning that in order to support international level squads (given modern wage structures), there would need to be intra-market consolidation. That being said, you could the see expansion if it helped reinvigorate the league, and grow international reputation.

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We're also the least likely to benefit from any sort of consolidation. Our stadium is sized correctly, we have nearly all the market-share in the city, we are in a more wealthy part of Italy, and our international reputation remains strong in spite of a weaker league because of our domestic dominance and our recently strong international performances. Would consolidation help Genoa, Milan, Roma, and Verona? Certainly.

seems like you have much knowledge about sport financial. interisting idea, but difficult excecution.
it will have more impact for foreign fans.
if milan and inter joined as one club and i were milan fans, insted of keeping suppport the consilidation between inter and milan, i would choose another club.

 

[Amer]

http://www.juventus.com/media/nativ...5-2016/comunicato 24022016 semestrale eng.pdf

half yearly report

Should we be worried about this 197 million euros debt?

 

[LiquidPLP]

seems like you have much knowledge about sport financial. interisting idea, but difficult excecution.
it will have more impact for foreign fans.
if milan and inter joined as one club and i were milan fans, insted of keeping suppport the consilidation between inter and milan, i would choose another club.

Yeah, that's why his calculations don't make sense at all. You can't just add those numbers up and make a point.

Should we be worried about this 197 million euros debt?

Yes and no. Right now we're coping with it very well but things in football change really fast and that could become a problem. The less, the better and having no debt should be our goal tbh, quite high on the list.

 

[Zacheryah]

Should we be worried about this 197 million euros debt?

Our stadium loan makes up quite alot of it

 

[Primitive]

Someone make a bold prediction what should be our revenue come the end of the financial year.

 

[Xperd]

€380m

 

[Zacheryah]

thats sounds quite huge, what am i missing ?

 

[Xperd]

Adidas deal,domestic TV deal increase,Jeep sponsorship increase.Expect the commercial revenue to be much larger than last yr.

 

[Zacheryah]

Well, if it was any season we had to go our this early, it was this one

 

[Primitive]

Well, if it was any season we had to go our this early, it was this one

i think from this defeat we gained more fans then anything else, it was a match worth of a semi or a final.

P.S. i will just give u a simple example - most of my friends are fans of epl teams or barca/real and 2 seasons ago they were like "oh juve is just looking good, because they have no challenge in italy" and now transitioned into "juve are legit top 4 club in the world", "they can beat anyone" and im just sitting there feeding on their salty tears from epl embarassment

 

[Xperd]

More like last yr's CL final because that is what has actually put us on the big stage and given us a platform and foundation to build on financially.

If we made the semis this yr,we'd have made more than last yr in CL income mainly because of the CL market pool increase and the prize money increase as well.So we missed out on that.

Thats more of a bold prediction though.Realistically i expect it to be around 360m.

 

[Zacheryah]

An injured juve that packed its stuff, went to Munich and slammed the hosts 0-2, before subs had to be made, that was robbed from 0-3 and had only a silly mistake of the most experienced outfield player away from actually nailing it


If i see a team pull this and lose like that, i'd instantly respect them and root for them.

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It was actually strange this week. Never get alot of comments on juve games in europe.

But just about everyone that knows i'm a juve fan has been in contact on such a shame it was juve wasent able to go trough.