The 4-yr. old Preacher (7 Viewers)

[AndreaCristiano]

I dont get the mockery it almost seems like it comes out of a fear of God, almost as if they admit God exists they would have to live their lives by someone elses standards and atone to someone other than themselves

 

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[Zé Tahir]

The modern day atheist/agnostic accuses religious people of acting 'holier than thou' and to be in-your-face constantly but the irony is that they themselves are guilty of exactly that.

At least with certain religious people you kinda expect that nutter at the mall to pop-out of nowhere and claim that you'll go to hell if you don't accept Christ as your Lord and Savior but with atheists its all surprise blitz attacks. One minute you'll be talking about how bad Molinaro crosses a ball and the next you hear 'at least he doesn't believe in Allah' or some random shit like that. It's like "huh? what just happened?".

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

A crap load look it up, crap load of historical evidence

Since you already know of this evidence, you even know how to find it. Save time for both of us, and find it for me.

It means you (we) are insignificant little stains in a vast universes that we can't and probably won't ever fully comprehend. It doesn't necessarily have to have an affect on your belief in a God. It means slow your roll, you can mock us 24/7 about our 'fairy tails' but you're just as clueless as us. The opposite our belief doesn't = the truth. Science hasn't disapproved the existence of a God. So save the cheap jabs. Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house...and all that, type of deal.

Ze, I've already given up hope of being able to understand everything in the cosmos. I've given up hope that I'll live long enough to see the day when scientists will find out the cause for our universe, let alone actually find it. I'm perfectly OK for not knowing the answers to questions like "how was the world created?", "why are we here?", "what is our purpose?". Instead, YOU are the one who seeks to have the answers to this is the form of a book, written ages ago and passed down word-for-word. I see no reason why anyone on this earth isn't as clueless as me. I see no reason why only a minuscule group of are lucky enough to have had a revelation from god whereas the other gazillions of people to have ever lived on earth never had a revelation, but just had to take their word for it. I can write paragraphs about the whole issue, but I'll sum it up by saying that religions simply don't make sense. Maybe bullshit was too strong a word for you sensitive lot. I hope 'non-sense' puts my point across efficiently.

Disproving god? Do you really want to go there? Lemme ask you... suppose science sets out to prove that god exists, which god shall we choose? Your god? Just because you believe in it? Or maybe the thousands of gods that have ever supposedly existed? And where do we start from? What evidence do we gather? Oh that's right! Evidence we can neither seem hear, touch or feel because gods live in a timeless and spaceless world.

Also, does Russell's Teapot ring a bell?

Don't act all perplexed Sheik. Tell me, is this how you discuss religion with your mother? She's Hindu right? Do you go tell her you think the Vedas are bullshit (in those exact words?) Do you tell her you're now a Pastafarian and put put up posters around your room? Do you insult the Hindu Gods in front of your mother because you don't have any hair?

Well there is no exact word for 'bullshit' in Kannada, but I did let her know that I don't see those religious texts in the same way that she does. And she respects it cos that's my opinion.

But that's the thing, Ze. Why don't you tolerate me? The FSM thing was obviously a joke. But if I can show tolerance towards your belief in an invisible god, then why can't you show tolerance towards my opinion about these gods?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I dont get the mockery it almost seems like it comes out of a fear of God, almost as if they admit God exists they would have to live their lives by someone elses standards and atone to someone other than themselves

I admit mockery is one way to put the point across.

What is wrong with living by your own standards and atoning to yourself? Why do you make it look like a wrong thing to do?

The modern day atheist/agnostic accuses religious people of acting 'holier than thou' and to be in-your-face constantly but the irony is that they themselves are guilty of exactly that.

At least with certain religious people you kinda expect that nutter at the mall to pop-out of nowhere and claim that you'll go to hell if you don't accept Christ as your Lord and Savior but with atheists its all surprise blitz attacks. One minute you'll be talking about how bad Molinaro crosses a ball and the next you hear 'at least he doesn't believe in Allah' or some random shit like that. It's like "huh? what just happened?".

Did I ever say something like that? Then I'm quite sorry. I clearly meant to generic "god" that covers all religions, not Islam exclusively.

 

[ALC]

I dont get the mockery it almost seems like it comes out of a fear of God, almost as if they admit God exists they would have to live their lives by someone elses standards and atone to someone other than themselves

That's not what it is, I think they're just bored and trying to piss you off, since you come off as kinda annoying. No offense or anything.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

The modern day atheist/agnostic accuses religious people of acting 'holier than thou' and to be in-your-face constantly but the irony is that they themselves are guilty of exactly that.

At least with certain religious people you kinda expect that nutter at the mall to pop-out of nowhere and claim that you'll go to hell if you don't accept Christ as your Lord and Savior but with atheists its all surprise blitz attacks. One minute you'll be talking about how bad Molinaro crosses a ball and the next you hear 'at least he doesn't believe in Allah' or some random shit like that. It's like "huh? what just happened?".

totally get what your saying

 

[Zé Tahir]

You've gone into a serious tangent here Sheik. I just wanted to put you in your place with all the mockery. Just accept that at the end of the day if you think I'm clueless admit that you're just as clueless. It's safe to say we're all discussing the possible answer to x, whether you are actually interested in knowing the answer to it is irrelevant because you're actively interested in providing a counter argument to what you think it is not. And that, my friend, is all it is you're providing, a counter argument...i.e. not the actual answer. So if I'm full of shit so are you. You can disagree all you want and we can discuss the hell out of each other until we get sick and tired of it but none of your beliefs make you better than me or vice versa.

I will not continue a discussion with you on theology anymore because it's pointless but we ought to agree on what I just said as humans who are to co-exist on this planet.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

That's not what it is, I think they're just bored and trying to piss you off, since you come off as kinda annoying. No offense or anything.

thats rich you calling me annoying lol

 

[AndreaCristiano]

I admit mockery is one way to put the point across.

What is wrong with living by your own standards and atoning to yourself? Why do you make it look like a wrong thing to do?


Did I ever say something like that? Then I'm quite sorry. I clearly meant to generic "god" that covers all religions, not Islam exclusively.

How does one atone to one self when their is nothing bigger than oneself to put into perspective ones errors or sins?

 

[ALC]

thats rich you calling me annoying lol

I said you come off that way. Look at the conclusions you jump to, you think the mockery is because they fear God while it couldn't be any further from the truth and are as close minded as the people you bash. And look at who's been keeping this convo up for days now. It's gotten stale.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

I said you come off that way. Look at the conclusions you jump to, you think the mockery is because they fear God while it couldn't be any further from the truth and are as close minded as the people you bash. And look at who's been keeping this convo up for days now. It's gotten stale.

Actually I was making a guess as to why if you read my post. Last time I checked to keep a thread going it takes more than one person and it seems that i am not the only one in here. Whats gotten stale is misrepresentations of peoples statements. Im not being close minded by my statement that you reference I was pondering why the hate and mockery exists from the non believers, and if you can see I wasnt the only one disturbed by it

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

That's not what it is, I think they're just bored and trying to piss you off, since you come off as kinda annoying. No offense or anything.

Not trying to piss them off at all. It's the point where they don't accept our logical reasoning against their beliefs, and mockery is the only way to show how ridiculous their beliefs are. I showed this by claiming that the FSM was talking through me. It's to show that anyone can make such a claim and there would be no reason for you to believe that it is true. I don't mock to make the person angry. I'm a better person than that.

You've gone into a serious tangent here Sheik. I just wanted to put you in your place with all the mockery. Just accept that at the end of the day if you think I'm clueless admit that you're just as clueless. It's safe to say we're all discussing the possible answer to x, whether you are actually interested in knowing the answer to it is irrelevant because you're actively interested in providing a counter argument to what you think it is not. And that, my friend, is all it is you're providing, a counter argument...i.e. not the actual answer. So if I'm full of shit so are you. You can disagree all you want and we can discuss the hell out of each other until we get sick and tired of it but none of your beliefs make you better than me or vice versa.

I will not continue a discussion with you on theology anymore because it's pointless but we ought to agree on what I just said as humans who are to co-exist on this planet.

You're taking this way too personally. Go back and read what I said. I said your book is bullshit, not you. I know better than attacking a religious person. It's useless and serves no purpose. I try very hard to only expose your religion and religious beliefs in general. Because that is the root of the problem. We are making the mistake of trying to treat the effect rather than treat the cause.

And FFS, I already admitted that I'm clueless regarding the true origin of the universe! Calm the fuck down, man!

How does one atone to one self when their is nothing bigger than oneself to put into perspective ones errors or sins?

Fine, I lose with the atonement point.

But what is wrong with living by your own standards?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Not trying to piss them off at all. It's the point where they don't accept our logical reasoning against their beliefs, and mockery is the only way to show how ridiculous their beliefs are. I showed this by claiming that the FSM was talking through me. It's to show that anyone can make such a claim and there would be no reason for you to believe that it is true. I don't mock to make the person angry. I'm a better person than that.


You're taking this way too personally. Go back and read what I said. I said your book is bullshit, not you. I know better than attacking a religious person. It's useless and serves no purpose. I try very hard to only expose your religion and religious beliefs in general. Because that is the root of the problem. We are making the mistake of trying to treat the effect rather than treat the cause.

And FFS, I already admitted that I'm clueless regarding the true origin of the universe! Calm the fuck down, man!



Fine, I lose with the atonement point.

But what is wrong with living by your own standards?

Because human standards change and sway with emotions and desires, no absolutes, nothing with a definite yes and no.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Because human standards change and sway with emotions and desires, no absolutes, nothing with a definite yes and no.

Why should there be absolutes? Why should there be a definite yes or no in our lives?

Also, if you are somehow implying that religion offers this absolution and the definite Yes or No, then the very fact that you are interpreting Bible destroys this absolution and definition.

Nothing is forever, but the certainty of change. Deal with it.

 

[IliveForJuve]

Our beliefs are ridiculous and atheists are superior because of their reasoning.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Why should there be absolutes? Why should there be a definite yes or no in our lives?

Also, if you are somehow implying that religion offers this absolution and the definite Yes or No, then the very fact that you are interpreting Bible destroys this absolution and definition.

Nothing is forever, but the certainty of change. Deal with it.

Their should be absolutes, Good and evil , light and dark, so our feeble minds and minuscule understanding of all that is in the universe can be somehow explained


well I dont believe that at all, I believ God is absolute, my soul is eternal

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Our beliefs are ridiculous and atheists are superior because of their reasoning.

Their God given reasoning

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

well I dont believe that at all, I believ God is absolute, my soul is eternal

You didn't answer my question. Why should there be absolutes? Why should there be a definite yes or no in our lives?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

You didn't answer my question. Why should there be absolutes? Why should there be a definite yes or no in our lives?

umm yes I did reread. Also to give an example when a parent tells a child not to do something, they do it to teach the child what is right or wrong, if they didnt the child would grow up with no direction and no moral compass. No standards nothing to differentiate good from bad

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

umm yes I did reread. Also to give an example when a parent tells a child not to do something, they do it to teach the child what is right or wrong, if they didnt the child would grow up with no direction and no moral compass. No standards nothing to differentiate good from bad

You are ignoring a BIG factor in a humans life: society. Our morality is dictated by our society. Even if a mother doesn't teach her child not to steal, when the kid is caught stealing, society will tell him that stealing is wrong. Worst case, he'd be jailed for some time as a lesson that what he did is wrong. If his parents don't teach him, society will. Also, humans are great imitators. Especially a child, who will imitate what others are doing. Which kind of brings us back to the topic of this thread. This 4 year old kid is admittedly imitating his father. In the same way, this child you talk of could imitate how other kids he interacts with behaves on a daily basis. Either way, if not moulded by parents, he will be moulded by society.