Terrorism (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Zlatan
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The Patriot Act is a perfect example that Americans hate liberty. That's right - Americans would choose tyranny over liberty any day, and those in favor of the Patriot Act and the ultra-Right wing Christian Nazi's turn the screws tighter every year.
Every single day, at least two people ask me "how can you defend a person knowing he is guilty?" (I am a criminal defense lawyer). Why don't these people just say it - we don't need a constitution, we have no need for personal liberty - if the guy with a badge says you are guilty, you should just proceed to the prison.
Bin Laden has already defeated us. Individual liberties have been slowly disappearing since the 1960's, but never at such an accelerated rate than over the last 6-7 years.
Every single day, at least two people ask me "how can you defend a person knowing he is guilty?" (I am a criminal defense lawyer). Why don't these people just say it - we don't need a constitution, we have no need for personal liberty - if the guy with a badge says you are guilty, you should just proceed to the prison.
Bin Laden has already defeated us. Individual liberties have been slowly disappearing since the 1960's, but never at such an accelerated rate than over the last 6-7 years.
Work on your tonality.
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Americans do not hate liberty. The intelligent proponents of the Patriot Act most probably do love liberty, but is that liberty worth risking another terrorist attack?
I happen to watch FSTV(not sure how many of us have it or subscribe to what Vinman would probably call "neo-commie-dissent from *****-faces left of Karl Marx...!!!???!!!", followed by "Do you know what a joke is, fool ???!!!"
Apparently over 3000 people have been detained, for a substantial period of time(over 6 months) without any charges brought to the table, or a warrant for their arrest. Their businesses are regularly raided by FBI and IRS officers. Many people who are released are deported, regardless of whether their immigration status is in process or not, and abuse has been reported.
It doesnt sound so bad until you picture yourself in their situation.
The Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act. Wonder who throught that up.
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Americans do not hate liberty. The intelligent proponents of the Patriot Act most probably do love liberty, but is that liberty worth risking another terrorist attack?
I happen to watch FSTV(not sure how many of us have it or subscribe to what Vinman would probably call "neo-commie-dissent from *****-faces left of Karl Marx...!!!???!!!", followed by "Do you know what a joke is, fool ???!!!"
Apparently over 3000 people have been detained, for a substantial period of time(over 6 months) without any charges brought to the table, or a warrant for their arrest. Their businesses are regularly raided by FBI and IRS officers. Many people who are released are deported, regardless of whether their immigration status is in process or not, and abuse has been reported.
It doesnt sound so bad until you picture yourself in their situation.
The Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act. Wonder who throught that up.
Actually its rather difficult for me to comment on this topic. I have not really experianced the effects of this Act, mostly because I'm not a frequent traveller and not in DC all that much. I know some of my daily habits are observed (my presence on the internet). I guess if I were to be placed in an immigrant's shoes the story would be a lot different.
But while the Patriotic Act takes away Civil Liberties, you must admit it does make the country safer, but to the expense sometimes of truely innocent people.
But while the Patriotic Act takes away Civil Liberties, you must admit it does make the country safer, but to the expense sometimes of truely innocent people.
Meaning that Pado will no longer be able to have a wank without being detained?
But seriously, the Act violates the U.S. Constitution, a document that should be held sacred. Some Americans are all too happy to give up some rights and destroy this great document at the first sign of trouble. I believe that in ignoring the Constitution is an error so grave that there may be no returning to the principals the US was founded upon. If we have lost that, we have lost our country.
But seriously, the Act violates the U.S. Constitution, a document that should be held sacred. Some Americans are all too happy to give up some rights and destroy this great document at the first sign of trouble. I believe that in ignoring the Constitution is an error so grave that there may be no returning to the principals the US was founded upon. If we have lost that, we have lost our country.
Actually, I think said people are all in favor of rules and regulations that they don't recognize as ever applying to themselves. This happens all the time. See -- it's much easier to be for the death penalty, for example, when you think you'll never be accused of a crime (rightly or wrongly). But the fact is our laws need to universally apply to everyone.
It's the same motivation behind gated communities, for example. You always think that crime and risk are external things and you're perfectly insulated, so you put up walls thinking you're keeping that out. But what you don't recognize in your gated community is that spousal abuse, your kids doing drugs (and maybe breaking into houses for cash, etc.), all can happen within those very same walls that you think are keeping the trouble out.
It's the same motivation behind gated communities, for example. You always think that crime and risk are external things and you're perfectly insulated, so you put up walls thinking you're keeping that out. But what you don't recognize in your gated community is that spousal abuse, your kids doing drugs (and maybe breaking into houses for cash, etc.), all can happen within those very same walls that you think are keeping the trouble out.
The Patriot Act is a similar system used by the govt to watch Mafia bosses, and major drug dealers........
Why shouldnt they use the same rules to fight terrorists that are trying to kill as many Americans as possible as they do with mafia bosses like John Gotti ??????
They are here, and we have to do what we can BEFORE they act !!!!!
Pado, I know were on different ends of the spectrum here (me being a police officer, you being a defense attorney), but we both have to agree that America's safety is the top priority
Why shouldnt they use the same rules to fight terrorists that are trying to kill as many Americans as possible as they do with mafia bosses like John Gotti ??????
They are here, and we have to do what we can BEFORE they act !!!!!
Pado, I know were on different ends of the spectrum here (me being a police officer, you being a defense attorney), but we both have to agree that America's safety is the top priority
vinman in this application of the patriot act, EVERYBODY is being watched and targeted, whether or not there is evidence for it or not.
the application of the patriot act is on a grander scale than ever before. you needed evidence to prove a case against mr gotti and co. not so with the inmates at guatanamo bay. and at various detention centers.
while i am for the prevention of terrorism and for the security of the american people, i want to make it clear that this is not the way to go about it.
I also took the opportunity to skim through the whole thread, upon Andys suggestion, and I found Ian's views the closest to mine. In fact I would agree with almost everything he mentioned.
the application of the patriot act is on a grander scale than ever before. you needed evidence to prove a case against mr gotti and co. not so with the inmates at guatanamo bay. and at various detention centers.
while i am for the prevention of terrorism and for the security of the american people, i want to make it clear that this is not the way to go about it.
I also took the opportunity to skim through the whole thread, upon Andys suggestion, and I found Ian's views the closest to mine. In fact I would agree with almost everything he mentioned.
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