no offence vin but yeah you work in law enforcement. are you just a ordinary police officer or something bigger? if first, then its quite small reality.
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Terrorism (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Zlatan
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First of, we were past the idiot stage. I wouldn't edit a post where someone accused someone of talking shit. But anyways:
This messageboard is unlike many other messageboards fairly homogenous and peacefull. People root for the same team, like many of the same players, etc. When conflict erupts, it can often strike quite hard, at least when I've seen it happen. We've previously said that politics is off limits here. We tried it, trouble came, and it was clear that people had very different opinions on a subject. American politics, 9/11 and other similar topics are very sensitive, as people have very strong opinions about it. Some people hate America and globalization, some people love America and American culture. The American thread was IMO getting nasty. I had given out several warnings, they didn't help. Also, the discussion had somehwat died out, and wasn't very constructive, and had derailed to namecalling.
I therefore closed the thread. I also edited the worst of Zlatan's post, as I was afraid that if it would have stood it would lead to Vinman replying in a similar or worse fashion, and the problem wouldn't disappear. I sendt a PM to Zlatan to explain why I did it. What you feel was so wrong here I don't know. The edited post; if you're so keen on dirty words let me know and I'll send you a PM with some. The thread: it was full of arguments and fighting, it was going nowhere. If you felt they should have continued there's not much I can do there. If you miss the actual discussion in the thread that was "legal" according to the rules open a new thread and try again.
On a strictly personal note; In the future I would mind it if you try and be a little more constructive in your criticism. Instead of saying that you think the forum is like playschool you could bring your tips and ideas on the table. Through your posts in the forum (I admit that I've only seen a small number of them though) you seem like a very criticising person, who lacks the humour and somewhat slanty view on things that to me makes your blog entertaining.
If would also like to assure you that I'm also only trying to do the best I can for the forum through my moderation. I simply don't have another reason for closing a thread and editing posts, at least when both Vinman and Zlatan are involved, two people I like and think contribute very well to the forum. I try and relate to and uphold the forum rules. Do you think I don't manage in doing that, or is it the actual rules you have a problem with? the rules are written by Martin, the owner of the site, who actually can do whatever he wants here. If the problem is there I don't think there's much you can do.
I'm off to a party now, and if I for a second think about this issue while I'm there I'm gonna be seriously pissed.
This messageboard is unlike many other messageboards fairly homogenous and peacefull. People root for the same team, like many of the same players, etc. When conflict erupts, it can often strike quite hard, at least when I've seen it happen. We've previously said that politics is off limits here. We tried it, trouble came, and it was clear that people had very different opinions on a subject. American politics, 9/11 and other similar topics are very sensitive, as people have very strong opinions about it. Some people hate America and globalization, some people love America and American culture. The American thread was IMO getting nasty. I had given out several warnings, they didn't help. Also, the discussion had somehwat died out, and wasn't very constructive, and had derailed to namecalling.
I therefore closed the thread. I also edited the worst of Zlatan's post, as I was afraid that if it would have stood it would lead to Vinman replying in a similar or worse fashion, and the problem wouldn't disappear. I sendt a PM to Zlatan to explain why I did it. What you feel was so wrong here I don't know. The edited post; if you're so keen on dirty words let me know and I'll send you a PM with some. The thread: it was full of arguments and fighting, it was going nowhere. If you felt they should have continued there's not much I can do there. If you miss the actual discussion in the thread that was "legal" according to the rules open a new thread and try again.
On a strictly personal note; In the future I would mind it if you try and be a little more constructive in your criticism. Instead of saying that you think the forum is like playschool you could bring your tips and ideas on the table. Through your posts in the forum (I admit that I've only seen a small number of them though) you seem like a very criticising person, who lacks the humour and somewhat slanty view on things that to me makes your blog entertaining.
If would also like to assure you that I'm also only trying to do the best I can for the forum through my moderation. I simply don't have another reason for closing a thread and editing posts, at least when both Vinman and Zlatan are involved, two people I like and think contribute very well to the forum. I try and relate to and uphold the forum rules. Do you think I don't manage in doing that, or is it the actual rules you have a problem with? the rules are written by Martin, the owner of the site, who actually can do whatever he wants here. If the problem is there I don't think there's much you can do.
I'm off to a party now, and if I for a second think about this issue while I'm there I'm gonna be seriously pissed.
Im not against closing threads. Your right its quite simple to start a new thread. And in fact i wasnt only talking about this specific thread.
I dont mean to sound like a dick, but I just dont agree with the way mods do alot of things around here. In brief:
About the American thread: Fair enough an argument happened that made it be closed. But look back, moderators were already throwing out pre warnings long before.
Posting out public warnings: Moderators often post a warning addressed to a specific person in the thread. Surely PM is a better choice. Rather than post in public almost as if to show authority.
Relentless offtopic warnings: A thread goes off topic, in the event that that thread is already dead why not let it continue, the off topic is always a result of something in the thread and often more exciting or better discussion than the original thread. Moderators post more public warnings about keeping on topic and people stop the good discussion. Splitting of the threads helped, but now because some people didnt like that it has been completely stopped.
Moderators telling a person how to react or what to do: This has happened to me a few times, and ive seen it happen to others countless times, and usually it hasnt been against any rules. Moderators can close threads etc, but I dont see telling people how to react is acceptable.
Is it in the moderator guidlines that you should do this? Also without sounding stuck up the moderators doing this are not in any way smarter/wiser than the person they are giving advise to. I just think I can decide how I should react better than anyone else can decide how I should.
Ive made these points before, not going to keep repeating myself. And in relation to my post count, a very small number have been critising and nothing has been serious since the Euro ended.
Im not questioning how you are moderating. Your only doing what is the way around here. Its not the rules I dont agree with, just the points I made above. And of course its Martins forum and I would respect any decision Martin would make. But Martin hasnt advised me about how to react/respond or posted a warning etc in public that could have been done in private.
In saying all that im not asking for anything to be changed or trying to be some kind of rebel. Just dont expect me to keep inline with advise given because i simply wont unless i agree with it.
This case may have been a bad example. personally i would let any argument run its course until it reaches a very personally level. This argument wasnt anything that major as far as i see it. Of course I can understand how people with different attitudes wouldnt want that, but at least they can treat everyone as adults and give it a chance.
I dont mean to sound like a dick, but I just dont agree with the way mods do alot of things around here. In brief:
About the American thread: Fair enough an argument happened that made it be closed. But look back, moderators were already throwing out pre warnings long before.
Posting out public warnings: Moderators often post a warning addressed to a specific person in the thread. Surely PM is a better choice. Rather than post in public almost as if to show authority.
Relentless offtopic warnings: A thread goes off topic, in the event that that thread is already dead why not let it continue, the off topic is always a result of something in the thread and often more exciting or better discussion than the original thread. Moderators post more public warnings about keeping on topic and people stop the good discussion. Splitting of the threads helped, but now because some people didnt like that it has been completely stopped.
Moderators telling a person how to react or what to do: This has happened to me a few times, and ive seen it happen to others countless times, and usually it hasnt been against any rules. Moderators can close threads etc, but I dont see telling people how to react is acceptable.
Is it in the moderator guidlines that you should do this? Also without sounding stuck up the moderators doing this are not in any way smarter/wiser than the person they are giving advise to. I just think I can decide how I should react better than anyone else can decide how I should.
Ive made these points before, not going to keep repeating myself. And in relation to my post count, a very small number have been critising and nothing has been serious since the Euro ended.
Im not questioning how you are moderating. Your only doing what is the way around here. Its not the rules I dont agree with, just the points I made above. And of course its Martins forum and I would respect any decision Martin would make. But Martin hasnt advised me about how to react/respond or posted a warning etc in public that could have been done in private.
In saying all that im not asking for anything to be changed or trying to be some kind of rebel. Just dont expect me to keep inline with advise given because i simply wont unless i agree with it.
This case may have been a bad example. personally i would let any argument run its course until it reaches a very personally level. This argument wasnt anything that major as far as i see it. Of course I can understand how people with different attitudes wouldnt want that, but at least they can treat everyone as adults and give it a chance.
It wasnt obscene, I actually think it was a pretty polite way to insult somene. The worst thing I said was "fvcking idiot" once.
I dont think it was that bad, IMO you could have let it stood. I've said worst things to Incubo. All I did was offer a free psychoanalysis. :undecide:
Besides, I didnt say anything
I dont think it was that bad, IMO you could have let it stood. I've said worst things to Incubo. All I did was offer a free psychoanalysis. :undecide:
Besides, I didnt say anything
Serious stuff is done through PM. I don't know about the other guys, but I would give simple warnings and explanations in public because it helps publicise the norms of behaviour we're trying to advertise as acceptable, eg. not wasting Martin's bandwidth with childish slagging matches.
It's a pain in the ass to look at a thread about Nedved's latest injury and find people are actually discussing Rosicky's prospects as a player or the club's inept (or not) transfer policies. I've been told that splitting threads is too messy, and it is certainly time-consuming (I have to read each post to decide where it's going). I'm quite happy to just rename a thread that's gone off-topic, but it has to be still relevant to the forum it's in. There's no point in having a discussion about American foreign policy or the existance of God/Allah/Superman in the Transfer Talk forum.
We are the chosen few for a reason. I don't know exactly what you're referring to. Could you give an example where the person receiving a warning isn't doing something wrong?
I didn't see any of your Euro posts, but I've found you an interesting read.
I've been on forums where there was only that level of moderation before. It's not pretty.
It's a pain in the ass to look at a thread about Nedved's latest injury and find people are actually discussing Rosicky's prospects as a player or the club's inept (or not) transfer policies. I've been told that splitting threads is too messy, and it is certainly time-consuming (I have to read each post to decide where it's going). I'm quite happy to just rename a thread that's gone off-topic, but it has to be still relevant to the forum it's in. There's no point in having a discussion about American foreign policy or the existance of God/Allah/Superman in the Transfer Talk forum.
We are the chosen few for a reason. I don't know exactly what you're referring to. Could you give an example where the person receiving a warning isn't doing something wrong?I didn't see any of your Euro posts, but I've found you an interesting read.
I've been on forums where there was only that level of moderation before. It's not pretty.
The people who made the American Juve Thread into a place for bagging on people. I blame that mostly on Zlatan, who ruined the thread for making a disturbing comment to Vinman (which I didn't see) and not being able to relinquish his need to bag on the President of the U.S. The better posts of that thread involved different people (Swag, Torkel, Fliakis, River and Majed), who were able to post respectfully. We were able to discuss the Presidential Election, in which Torkel, Swag and I had a very good discussion. That type of political discussion was very good as, even if there were disagreements, people wouldn't be offended because the tone was soft and sensible. That type of discussion is warrented, not this other offensive garbage that nobody wants to hear except for the people invloved. It was a good, no, great thread until that shit started. :groan:
What serious stuff? How serious does it get on a forum, i read moderator warnings and public advice every day.
I didnt mean what two topics are being discussed in one thread. I mean for instance. You post a thread about Nedved blah blah, that carrys on for 5 pages and its old and over, someone happens to mention something, someone else will respond to that and they start discussing it (something unrelated to football or not that important for example). Now a moderator will come in and stick a padlock on it because 'this is pointless', it isnt pointless to those discussing it and what harm is it doing anyway.
We are the chosen few for a reason. I don't know exactly what you're referring to. Could you give an example where the person receiving a warning isn't doing something wrong?
No I dont wish to give examples. But look at every time a moderator 'advises' on how this should go. 8 times out of 10 it isnt needed and is more trying to prevent any chance of an argument. Trying to prevent arguments before they are anywhere near starting. Moderators are supposed to do that? Thats why i think its like playschool
He didnt even say fuck.
When i see a post that has been removed by a moderator. Im thinking it would be something like 'i hate you, i hate you, i hate you, im going to kill you you worthless piece of shit. get the **** outta my way.....'
Anyways i didnt mean to start a huge debate about moderators. The points i made just greatly annoy me, ill deal with it.
I didnt mean what two topics are being discussed in one thread. I mean for instance. You post a thread about Nedved blah blah, that carrys on for 5 pages and its old and over, someone happens to mention something, someone else will respond to that and they start discussing it (something unrelated to football or not that important for example). Now a moderator will come in and stick a padlock on it because 'this is pointless', it isnt pointless to those discussing it and what harm is it doing anyway.
We are the chosen few for a reason. I don't know exactly what you're referring to. Could you give an example where the person receiving a warning isn't doing something wrong?
He didnt even say fuck
. When i see a post that has been removed by a moderator. Im thinking it would be something like 'i hate you, i hate you, i hate you, im going to kill you you worthless piece of shit. get the **** outta my way.....'
Anyways i didnt mean to start a huge debate about moderators. The points i made just greatly annoy me, ill deal with it.
I'd rather not get into detail, but I think you were on the right track with "'i hate you, i hate you, i hate you, im going to kill you you worthless piece of shit. get the **** outta my way....." - basically when someone goes past the point of simply saying something rash, losing their temper or just being a jerk.
Sure, but you now have a topic about the best grade of wood-screw to use when installing kitchen cupboards in a topic called "Nedved injured :down:" which is in the Player Talk forum. That's what we consider pointless. Sure, if you ask real sweet, I might split it off and shove it in Off Topic, but why would we waste that much time on every off-topic thread. At the end of the day, that particular forum is only for discussion about Juve players.
We all have different tolerances, and we can only act according to our own judgement. Without an example, I don't know if you're right, or if you're just a bit more relaxed about stuff we're actually here to stop.
That's it, your ass is banned. Go annoy Torkel about that. I can't judge what I can't see.
Yeah, but what we remove keeps half the threads from disintegrating into petty little *****-fights over nothing. It might be fairly harmless in the general scheme of things, but otherwise it's two pages of insults you and every other user has to load before you get back to discussing Del Piero's haircut.
Feedback is appreciated River, at least by me. Besides, as you said, if no one understands why we do something, they'll moan about it. Constantly. That's as annoying as any arguement.
Sure, but you now have a topic about the best grade of wood-screw to use when installing kitchen cupboards in a topic called "Nedved injured :down:" which is in the Player Talk forum. That's what we consider pointless. Sure, if you ask real sweet, I might split it off and shove it in Off Topic, but why would we waste that much time on every off-topic thread. At the end of the day, that particular forum is only for discussion about Juve players.
No I dont wish to give examples. But look at every time a moderator 'advises' on how this should go. 8 times out of 10 it isnt needed and is more trying to prevent any chance of an argument. Trying to prevent arguments before they are anywhere near starting. Moderators are supposed to do that? Thats why i think its like playschool
He didnt even say fuck .
.
Go annoy Torkel about that. I can't judge what I can't see. Yeah, but what we remove keeps half the threads from disintegrating into petty little *****-fights over nothing. It might be fairly harmless in the general scheme of things, but otherwise it's two pages of insults you and every other user has to load before you get back to discussing Del Piero's haircut.
Feedback is appreciated River, at least by me. Besides, as you said, if no one understands why we do something, they'll moan about it. Constantly. That's as annoying as any arguement.
An ordinary police officer ??? Are you telling me that an "ordinary police officer" doesnt deal with the threat of terrorism every day ????
I will not reveal what department I work for, but rest assured that I have dealt with terrorist suspects. My city is a border city with Canada, and we have Al Queida cells right here in Buffalo NY (ever hear of the Lackawanna 6 ??) and others right across the border
On a lighter note, I played soccer against the Lackawanna 6 during the early summer of 2002 (before they were arrested). They played for the Yemeni team in Lackawanna, and boy, were they dirty players !!!!!!
I will not reveal what department I work for, but rest assured that I have dealt with terrorist suspects. My city is a border city with Canada, and we have Al Queida cells right here in Buffalo NY (ever hear of the Lackawanna 6 ??) and others right across the border
On a lighter note, I played soccer against the Lackawanna 6 during the early summer of 2002 (before they were arrested). They played for the Yemeni team in Lackawanna, and boy, were they dirty players !!!!!!
I made a disturbing comment to Vinman??? I made a disturbing comment to Vinman? Dude, get your facts straight, I did not even talk directly to Vin until he started the insults. I never start fights, I finish them. And I have a right to say what I think about PONTUS as anyone else has, and all of my posts and comments are valid.
I'm going to have to say I agree with Torkel here. I was as upset as anyone regarding the first closing of American Juve because we were discussing things besides poitics. I thought the thread had potential to be very interesting, until it degenerated into a stupid political discussion. But the rules don't allow for political discussion. I guess this rule has been laxed since I was first here but I think it is a good one. Don't get me wrong, as a political science major in college I enjoy a good political discussion as much as anyone. However, this is clearly not the place for them because they quickly degenrate into crap. I would never talk about politics on this message board (for a number of reasons) and I think such a rule is perfectly valid.
There were some problems with the Mods but I think they have been cleared up mostly. Anyway, it isn't a mod closing doing this, it is an Assistant Manger and since Martin and dpf haven't been around of late, that would leave Torkel in charge wouldn't it?
The once political discussion has turned into stupid name calling, come on, what's the point? Lets just forget about it and move on, we have a season starting soon. Talk about Juve and other lighthearted stuff and leave the more involved discussions for other message boards, of which I'm sure there are plenty. I know thats why I came back here in the first place.
There were some problems with the Mods but I think they have been cleared up mostly. Anyway, it isn't a mod closing doing this, it is an Assistant Manger and since Martin and dpf haven't been around of late, that would leave Torkel in charge wouldn't it?
The once political discussion has turned into stupid name calling, come on, what's the point? Lets just forget about it and move on, we have a season starting soon. Talk about Juve and other lighthearted stuff and leave the more involved discussions for other message boards, of which I'm sure there are plenty. I know thats why I came back here in the first place.
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