Tactics and Formations (36 Viewers)

[LowLife]

Four days ago we defeated Chelsea with that formation and we were on top of the world being praised how well we played and everyone was saying how good 3-5-2 was. We lose one game and you expect Conte to change to 4-3-3? Please guys, he is not Allegri to try out new formation everyone week.

Even if we play 4-3-3 if Vidal and others keep playing like shiit it wont make a difference.

 

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[mukumsplau]

Let me get this straight. Conte says the 352 is less defensive than the 433 and I think he reasoned that in the latter formation, everyone has to put in a lot of defensive work..

Umm...shudnt this be the case anyway?? And wudnt we have less a chance of 'falling asleep' with the 433 than the 352??

 

[Red]

What would make a huge difference to Juve would be having one player that the opposition really feared, so would focus on him and that would open up space for others.

Almost doesn't matter what/who that players is but having either a real physical presence up front or someone who could beat his man with some regularity - either at RWB or SS - would help an awful lot and mean that Juve didn't just have to rely on the system so much to grind teams down.

4-4 Fucking 2

4-4-1-1.

 

[Goodfella]

What would make a huge difference to Juve would be having one player that the opposition really feared, so would focus on him and that would open up space for others.

That has been done countless times on Pirlo.

 

[Red]

Not really.

Pirlo is sometimes marked, but is rarely double-marked.

If holds the ball for a long time he can sometimes draw another player towards him.

It's not exactly comparable to team devoting virtually their whole defence to marking Ibrahimovic, though.

 

[delpiero4life]

As long as we are flexible and change mid match if the 3-5-2 is not working

 

[JuvePerSempre10]

As conte said the 352 is a more attacking formation compared to the 433. In attack our wing backs are actually left and right wingers. For CB's, usually Barzagli and Chiellini are also very high on the pitch, say 30/35 meters from the opponents goal. The strikers are dropping deep and this way they create space for midfielders like Vidal and Marchisio to enter the box (no coincidence that they score many goals for midfielders).Having said that, the negative aspect of this formation is that we so vulnerable against opponents who have pace upfront and are good in counter attacks. I don't really have a preference although, especially in serie A, i would rather see the 352 formation which creates more pressure for our opponents. In CL however it may be a different story, the opponents may be simple to good to not make use of the giant space behind the defense and the 1v1 counterattacks. The most important thing is that we should be able to be flexible and chance the formation and tactics during the game.

 

[PiN7uRiCCHi0]

The 3-5-2 formation showed a significant flaw in these recent weeks which can especially be seen in the games against the Milano teams.

Though not solely down to team structure and organization but also on the individual positional instructions of our players. However, I can see teams from now on attempting the tactic that worked close to perfection for the Milano teams and that is defending in numbers and leaving the front two or three just behind Juventus' midfield line ready to lauch an immeadiate counter-attack facing only the defensive line of three players. This is a reason for the big amount of shots on target Gigi had to deal with during those two matches.

Now, I remember an interview some time ago where Conte mentioned his idea of a backline being able to hold its ground on its own but in those particular games the occasions on which the defenders had to face dangerous 3-on-3 situatuations were too many and dangerous free-kicks and unneeded yellow cards followed. Juventus were far too offensive in terms of runs into the opposition's penalty area with all of Vidal, Claudio, Isla and Asamoah rushing forward. Only Pirlo was located near the centre of the field but he was often not fast enough to cover the space left behind for oppositions attackers to storm forward.

It's an aspect of this formation Conte needs to think about because in CL there are teams with fast and talented forwards who are going to be almost impossible to stop when they are rushing towards our defenders at full speed. Maybe limiting the freedom Vidal or Marchisio has to join the attacks would be just the simplest option which can have an effect.

 

[TheLaz]

back to 4-3-3?

Vucinic-(I dont dare)-Giovinco
Asamoah-Pirlo-Pogba
Chiellini-Bonucci-Barzagli-Lichsteiner

 

[MikeM]

The 3-5-2 formation showed a significant flaw in these recent weeks which can especially be seen in the games against the Milano teams.

Though not solely down to team structure and organization but also on the individual positional instructions of our players. However, I can see teams from now on attempting the tactic that worked close to perfection for the Milano teams and that is defending in numbers and leaving the front two or three just behind Juventus' midfield line ready to lauch an immeadiate counter-attack facing only the defensive line of three players. This is a reason for the big amount of shots on target Gigi had to deal with during those two matches.

Now, I remember an interview some time ago where Conte mentioned his idea of a backline being able to hold its ground on its own but in those particular games the occasions on which the defenders had to face dangerous 3-on-3 situatuations were too many and dangerous free-kicks and unneeded yellow cards followed. Juventus were far too offensive in terms of runs into the opposition's penalty area with all of Vidal, Claudio, Isla and Asamoah rushing forward. Only Pirlo was located near the centre of the field but he was often not fast enough to cover the space left behind for oppositions attackers to storm forward.

It's an aspect of this formation Conte needs to think about because in CL there are teams with fast and talented forwards who are going to be almost impossible to stop when they are rushing towards our defenders at full speed. Maybe limiting the freedom Vidal or Marchisio has to join the attacks would be just the simplest option which can have an effect.

I agree with this. The other thing is that we sometimes slow the game down considerably for fear of counters like against Shakhtar who is a top counter attacking team in the world.

And I also feel like we are susceptible to teams that want to play in our half and press as our forwards mostly lack pace and generally aren't very good on the break.

This is why I agree that the 4-3-3 should be used more often. We have the players to change our tactics on a dime. We have the players to play a super athletic 4-3-3 with Gio on the wing, Barza/Chiellini CB partnership and maybe Pogba in for Pirlo.

Right now we are still benefiting from scared tactics where teams are content to sit back. That is a death sentence against us.

 

[JuveA88]

This made me think about our current attacking problem regarding poor performance from our strikers..

It seems that Conte want both strikers to drop deep and form triangles with the midfield when we are in ball position..
Now, what kind of strikers would then be ideal!!??

I reckon that first touch, passing, creativity, off-the-ball movement and work-rate along with finishing, of course, is the most important skills to posses along with a certain physics when facing defenders from behind.

Giovinco lacks physics and finishing, and his first touch has lately been off. However, if he improve on the later, I regard him as fine fit in 3-5-2 even though he is best in 4-3-3. Give him time to adjust, and he will live up to his potential.

Vucinic lacks in finishing and work-rate, but there is no questioning his overall abilities. IMO Vucinic is not likely to improve further, but as long as Conte keeps him motivated, he will be a usual asset for years to come.

Quaq doesn´t have any real weakness in the skills listed above, but he is just simply not WC and will not improve further either. If he can adjust to being back-up, he is an valueable asset to have as striker.

Matri has clearly lack first touch and creativity. In fact, that much that he is an absolutely waste of resources. He will NEVER adjust to 3-5-2, so we better get some $ by selling him asap...

Bendtner is a bit like Matri, but his first touch and creativity is better, IMO. He has no future in our club when we play 3-5-2, but we should at least keep him for the remainding season. If we change to 4-3-3, he could do well, and much better than Matri, as the lone-striker.

In sum, for next campaign Bendtner and Matri should be gone, but who should replace them, who fits our system!?

I am actually starting to think that Jovetic would be a better fit than Cavani (Not saying we could get any of them, but if we imagine everything is possible). Im not sure if Cavani can adapt in a role where he is needed to trace back and be part of the build-up - something Jovetic is already used to.

This also means that I see no point in bringing back Immobile, even though I regard him highly. The same with Boayke.

Looking outside Serie A, Balotelli might fit well, if he can control his temper, but Suarez is probably the striker I see most fit in our 3-5-2. Do you agree?

Finally, regarding Llorente who will must likely join us if we go through in CL, I don´t think he will fit 3-5-2, but he would be awesome in a 4-3-3... However, I see no better alternative if we can only spend less than 10M on a striker in january.. That being said, lets save money until summer and buy Suarez and young gun.

Suarez, Giovinco, Vucinic, Quaq and a wonderkind is all we need to become truly WC.. (and a new LWB too

 

[Boksic]

From BBC:

"To add to the Everton chat, how about this for a stat on the Toffees, courtesy of Opta... "252 - Only Juventus (256) and Real Madrid (254) have hit more shots in the big five leagues than Everton this season. Relentless."

 

[alexjuventino]

By the end of the season we will have around 800 shots and only like 80 goals

 

[Juve_fanatic]

By the end of the season we will have around 800 shots and only like 80 goals

Still, i wont be any less happier with the Scudetto we'll win this year, thank you very much.

 

[El Santo]

From BBC:

"To add to the Everton chat, how about this for a stat on the Toffees, courtesy of Opta... "252 - Only Juventus (256) and Real Madrid (254) have hit more shots in the big five leagues than Everton this season. Relentless."

If only we had a world class striker.

 

[alexjuventino]

Is conte that thick headed that he wont try another formaiton?

 

[Salvatore]

Yeah he so dumb.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

I wanted us to go back to 4-3-3 before too, but then I saw over the last few weeks that the problems we were having wasn't a result of the formation and that we can be just as dominant in either formation.

So what is the reason people are lobbying for a formation change now?

 

[alexjuventino]

I wanted us to go back to 4-3-3 before too, but then I saw over the last few weeks that the problems we were having wasn't a result of the formation and that we can be just as dominant in either formation.

So what is the reason people are lobbying for a formation change now?

I think with the 3-5-2, we obviously play more through the wings, but then we also aply such a high line and our wing backs are often left exposed, and therefore on the counter we are screwed. With a 4-3-3 we are more compact and we could also get the best of our players

 

[Juve_fanatic]

I wanted us to go back to 4-3-3 before too, but then I saw over the last few weeks that the problems we were having wasn't a result of the formation and that we can be just as dominant in either formation.

So what is the reason people are lobbying for a formation change now?

The reason is we lost to Milan and Inter....If we win the next 2 games.....hell, if we win just the next game, people will forget everything about changing the formation. The formation is fine, our players' heads are wrong. They way we played against Milan and Inter HAS NOTHING to do with the formation and EVERYTHING to do with our players. Call it what you want, i dont care, call it fatique, call it complacency, call it laziness, it was that, not the formation. It has never been the formation.

You dont just go around changing formation like its the easiest thing to do.

P.S. But i really have to admit that i would like it so, so much just to see Isla and Licht on the right side playing together. Im even gonna