Tactics and Formations (9 Viewers)

Nedved96

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2017
5,767
Heynckes' Bayern has Robben and Ribery on the wings though. Ancelotti's Madrid had Ronaldo and Bale as wingers, and so did Zidane in his first CL win.

None of Robben, Ribery or Bale were selected because of their workrate. They were selected because they are skillful dribblers who can beat their man and create chances. Mandzukic cannot do that, and if any of those teams had Mandzu on the wing instead of Robben/Ribery/Bale there would be a clear downgrade.

The best teams in the world select wingers based on what they offer going forward, not defensively. We will never win the CL as long as we value grinta more than offensive firepower.

We already have bought a destroyer in midfield (Matuidi) to do the same job Casemiro does. We don't need a destroyer on the wings.
 
Apr 19, 2007
3,647
Heynckes' Bayern has Robben and Ribery on the wings though. Ancelotti's Madrid had Ronaldo and Bale as wingers, and so did Zidane in his first CL win.

None of Robben, Ribery or Bale were selected because of their workrate. They were selected because they are skillful dribblers who can beat their man and create chances. Mandzukic cannot do that, and if any of those teams had Mandzu on the wing instead of Robben/Ribery/Bale there would be a clear downgrade.

The best teams in the world select wingers based on what they offer going forward, not defensively. We will never win the CL as long as we value grinta more than offensive firepower.

We already have bought a destroyer in midfield (Matuidi) to do the same job Casemiro does. We don't need a destroyer on the wings.
I agree but we just bought multiple wingers be patient. Also there is not one formula to win. If wingers were the biggest factor then Barca should have destroyed us
 

Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
88,395
Heynckes' Bayern has Robben and Ribery on the wings though. Ancelotti's Madrid had Ronaldo and Bale as wingers, and so did Zidane in his first CL win.

None of Robben, Ribery or Bale were selected because of their workrate. They were selected because they are skillful dribblers who can beat their man and create chances. Mandzukic cannot do that, and if any of those teams had Mandzu on the wing instead of Robben/Ribery/Bale there would be a clear downgrade.

The best teams in the world select wingers based on what they offer going forward, not defensively. We will never win the CL as long as we value grinta more than offensive firepower.

We already have bought a destroyer in midfield (Matuidi) to do the same job Casemiro does. We don't need a destroyer on the wings.
Spot on :tup:
 

Nedved96

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2017
5,767
One thing that annoys me is how we can only play attacking football for 10-15 minutes before running out of steam. Meanwhile Real, Barca, Bayern and even teams like Liverpool and Dortmund can play attacking football for 90 minutes straight without breaking a sweat.

Why are we such an unfit team?

On a positive note, I have seen some improvements in that respect this season (although the season is still very young).
 

Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
88,395
One thing that annoys me is how we can only play attacking football for 10-15 minutes before running out of steam. Meanwhile Real, Barca, Bayern and even teams like Liverpool and Dortmund can play attacking football for 90 minutes straight without breaking a sweat.

Why are we such an unfit team?

On a positive note, I have seen some improvements in that respect this season (although the season is still very young).
Younger collective age maybe?
 

Nedved96

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2017
5,767
Mandzukic is the link thats preventing us to win the CL. how can Max not see this ffs
That's not what I said. What I say is that we should stop shoving square pegs in round holes and play specialists in each position.

Mandzukic is not a winger, and Barzagli is not a right back.

I actually quite like Mandzu as a striker and I would even consider playing him over Higuain in big games.
 

zizinho

Senior Member
Apr 14, 2013
45,405
Calma

But it is the stumbling block to becoming a truly attacking team like the ones that have won the last 3-4 CLs.
We destroyed Barcelona, a truly attacking team that have won the CL in the last 3-4 years, 3-0 with Mario playing a crucial role on both ends. Mandzukic on the wing is not in the slightest a problem for us, which the last CL campaign clearly showed. Beppe and Max agree, which is why they bought 2 wingers who prefer the right side (and center in Berna's case), aka Cuadrado replacement(s).

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That's not what I said. What I say is that we should stop shoving square pegs in round holes and play specialists in each position.

Mandzukic is not a winger, and Barzagli is not a right back.

I actually quite like Mandzu as a striker and I would even consider playing him over Higuain in big games.
Dybala is not a AM, Pjanic is not a DM. By your logic we would play something like a 4312 to play everyone in their true position
 

pitbull

Senior Member
Jul 26, 2007
11,045
Heynckes' Bayern has Robben and Ribery on the wings though. Ancelotti's Madrid had Ronaldo and Bale as wingers, and so did Zidane in his first CL win.

None of Robben, Ribery or Bale were selected because of their workrate. They were selected because they are skillful dribblers who can beat their man and create chances. Mandzukic cannot do that, and if any of those teams had Mandzu on the wing instead of Robben/Ribery/Bale there would be a clear downgrade.

The best teams in the world select wingers based on what they offer going forward, not defensively. We will never win the CL as long as we value grinta more than offensive firepower.

We already have bought a destroyer in midfield (Matuidi) to do the same job Casemiro does. We don't need a destroyer on the wings.
And Douglas Costa wouldn't be a clear downgrade? FFS the guy just came from a team were he was a clear reserve for two of those guys 4 years later.

At least Mandžukič allows us to play more offensively capable players in other positions like Pjanič and Dybala, with Douglas Costa on the field Allegri feels he has to balance it out by introducing Sturaro. And he can create plenty of chances with his physical superiority to any fullback out there, he just needs the right kind of balls
 

Wittl

Senior Member
Contributor
Feb 21, 2017
11,311
And Douglas Costa wouldn't be a clear downgrade?

At least Mandžukič allows us to play more offensively capable players in other positions like Pjanič and Dybala, with Douglas Costa on the field Allegri feels he has to balance it out by introducing a Sturaro.
Of course he would, he is shit. Enough seen of him.
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
41,945
That's not what I said. What I say is that we should stop shoving square pegs in round holes and play specialists in each position.

Mandzukic is not a winger, and Barzagli is not a right back.

I actually quite like Mandzu as a striker and I would even consider playing him over Higuain in big games.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Our style of approach tore apart europe and thailand for all but 45 mins


then pjanic and manbro got injured and the entire team collapsed. Coupled with Real scoring its only chance in a half we were having the upper hand.



Suddenly, Barcelona is the amazing exceptional example. They got utterly raped against us, but lets forget that.

Suddenly, Madrid needing us to lose 2 keyplayers to be able to create chances that arent counters, is the example




Seriously...



"Dybala is out of position". You peasants for months. He's still playing the same position. Suddenly he's taking names left and right. Explain this ?



Here is an idea. We got a worldclass tactician who knows exactly what he's doing. Let him do it.
 

Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
88,395
We destroyed Barcelona, a truly attacking team that have won the CL in the last 3-4 years, 3-0 with Mario playing a crucial role on both ends. Mandzukic on the wing is not in the slightest a problem for us, which the last CL campaign clearly showed. Beppe and Max agree, which is why they bought 2 wingers who prefer the right side (and center in Berna's case), aka Cuadrado replacement(s).

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Dybala is not a AM, Pjanic is not a DM. By your logic we would play something like a 4312 to play everyone in their true position
We beat Barca that had a weak defense that we knew about going into the game but lost to a very well rounded mega attacking RM.

We all know Barca are not the same team.

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And Douglas Costa wouldn't be a clear downgrade? FFS the guy just came from a team were he was a clear reserve for two of those guys 4 years later.

At least Mandžukič allows us to play more offensively capable players in other positions like Pjanič and Dybala, with Douglas Costa on the field Allegri feels he has to balance it out by introducing Sturaro. And he can create plenty of chances with his physical superiority to any fullback out there, he just needs the right kind of balls
Pjanic plays in front of defense how the heck does playing Mario have any effect on pjanic's position?

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And sturaro played because we are missing two main CMs

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:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Our style of approach tore apart europe and thailand for all but 45 mins


then pjanic and manbro got injured and the entire team collapsed. Coupled with Real scoring its only chance in a half we were having the upper hand.



Suddenly, Barcelona is the amazing exceptional example. They got utterly raped against us, but lets forget that.

Suddenly, Madrid needing us to lose 2 keyplayers to be able to create chances that arent counters, is the example




Seriously...



"Dybala is out of position". You peasants for months. He's still playing the same position. Suddenly he's taking names left and right. Explain this ?



Here is an idea. We got a worldclass tactician who knows exactly what he's doing. Let him do it.
We got destroyed after the injuries because we couldn't adequately replace from the bench to keep the tempo up. Looks at RMs bench compared to ours. That's why we broke at HT

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I know max tries to balance it out with a mix of creative players and hard working players so I certainly get that portion of your guys arguements I just think it's time to move beyond that especially against teams like Chievo.

I trust max 110% only wish he did some things differently. I wish to see Mario as a striker rather than winger but obviously max will be max so ultimately I trust him.
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
41,945
We beat Barca that had a weak defense that we knew about going into the game but lost to a very well rounded mega attacking RM.

We all know Barca are not the same team.

- - - Updated - - -


Pjanic plays in front of defense how the heck does playing Mario have any effect on pjanic's position?

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And sturaro played because we are missing two main CMs

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We got destroyed after the injuries because we couldn't adequately replace from the bench to keep the tempo up. Looks at RMs bench compared to ours. That's why we broke at HT

- - - Updated - - -

I know max tries to balance it out with a mix of creative players and hard working players so I certainly get that portion of your guys arguements I just think it's time to move beyond that especially against teams like Chievo.

I trust max 110% only wish he did some things differently. I wish to see Mario as a striker rather than winger but obviously max will be max so ultimately I trust him.
Yeah. So our approach was right
 

Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
88,395
Yeah. So our approach was right
Wat?

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And if stories are somewhat true bonucci had something to do with half time collapse too.
True - there was something clearly different after that 15 mins

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Zach, If you are alluding that had we not had any injuries we would have won that game that's a huge hypothetical. Could have easily gone either way. Zidane out-foxed Max
 

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