Türkiye (6 Viewers)

IrishZebra

Western Imperialist
Jun 18, 2006
23,327
The Marshall Aid plan has correlative and not causal links to European economic recovery. Indeed societies that have been destroyed generally have massive booms due to a fresh start at reconstruction and remodeling of the economy. You could easily say that British bombing and Nazi destruction helped pave the way for European economic growth. Economics is the least scientific science that there is. You really can't prove shit.
 

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Edoardo

Junior Member
Feb 28, 2013
219
Yeah Marshall plan has nothing to do with economic recovery. You know how much money USA gave Europe in that times? Anyway I see that there is no sense in talking to you. I'll soon leave to Texas and you'll have your socialist paradise all for yourselves.
 

IrishZebra

Western Imperialist
Jun 18, 2006
23,327
An initial 13 billion dollars outside of war subsidies?

Enjoy committing hate crimes against migrants.

You probably think mexicans aren't even net contributors to the US economy. You have the air of somebody who doesn't read anything outside of his blinkered view. You belong in Iran with the rest of the human waste.
 

Hængebøffer

Senior Member
Jun 4, 2009
25,185
Yeah Marshall plan has nothing to do with economic recovery. You know how much money USA gave Europe in that times? Anyway I see that there is no sense in talking to you. I'll soon leave to Texas and you'll have your socialist paradise all for yourselves.
The Seocond World War was a blessing in disguise for America.
 

Edoardo

Junior Member
Feb 28, 2013
219
Fuck off, I am no bigot I just believe in strict border control. I respect anyone that works hard but that doesn't mean that Mexicans should move to USA unlawfully. Just because I don't believe in theft, represion of the hardest and smartest workers (enterpenuers), corruption, excessive bureaucracy and unhealthy level of debt doesn't mean I am a racist. Social democrats are the scum of the earth as far as I am concerned I try and talk some sense in to you respectfully but no you have to attack me because I have a different opinion.
 

Hængebøffer

Senior Member
Jun 4, 2009
25,185
Fuck off, I am no bigot I just believe in strict border control. I respect anyone that works hard but that doesn't mean that Mexicans should move to USA unlawfully. Just because I don't believe in theft, represion of the hardest and smartest workers (enterpenuers), corruption, excessive bureaucracy and unhealthy level of debt doesn't mean I am a racist. Social democrats are the scum of the earth as far as I am concerned I try and talk some sense in to you respectfully but no you have to attack me because I have a different opinion.
Cronios?
 

IrishZebra

Western Imperialist
Jun 18, 2006
23,327
Fuck off, I am no bigot I just believe in strict border control. I respect anyone that works hard but that doesn't mean that Mexicans should move to USA unlawfully. Just because I don't believe in theft, represion of the hardest and smartest workers (enterpenuers), corruption, excessive bureaucracy and unhealthy level of debt doesn't mean I am a racist. Social democrats are the scum of the earth as far as I am concerned I try and talk some sense in to you respectfully but no you have to attack me because I have a different opinion.
I respect your opinion, if you took the time to figure out how long I've been around you would realise that I do not believe a Capitalist or a Socialist economy can function in practice. You seem to have confused ideas versus theory and reality. In great Capitalist America, entrepreneurs have always been shunned in favour of established oligarchy. Henry Ford himself had to apply to get permission to build cars and appeal when it was rejected because of excessive bureaucracy, which the United State Government is an example of. It is the largest bureaucracy and social employment scheme in history. The DOD is a black hole for money, used to prop up the economy. This has been the case since the US became a SuperPower. There is no FAIR playing field, ingenuity is not rewarded over established and politically connected 'big boys'.

NEW Enterprise drives economic growth, America is full of established enterprise. America has the same problems as a Socialist country with none of the benifits.

Excessive State Power
Massive and Wasteful Government Bureaucracy
Propaganda state based on fear
A Small elite that makes all the money and all the decisions

These are economically and politically observable phenomena. So I disrespect you? Yes I do. I do because you are arguing against factual evidence. I respect your right to believe different in the face of facts, but it doesn't mean you aren't a small-minded dickhead.

- - - Updated - - -

All we sign is SS and CM

SOCIALIST SCUM AND CAPITAL MURDERERS!
 

Edoardo

Junior Member
Feb 28, 2013
219
I respect your opinion, if you took the time to figure out how long I've been around you would realise that I do not believe a Capitalist or a Socialist economy can function in practice. You seem to have confused ideas versus theory and reality. In great Capitalist America, entrepreneurs have always been shunned in favour of established oligarchy. Henry Ford himself had to apply to get permission to build cars and appeal when it was rejected because of excessive bureaucracy
This is just false. America is not perfect and Obama is a bad president but just look at Google, Facebook, Twitter, ... If you are capable and smart the USA is still the best place to be. Just look at the Forbes list of young billionaires practically all of them that are self made are americans. You had to go way back in to the past to find Henry Ford, in Europe the matter is much worse.

,which the United State Government is an example of. It is the largest bureaucracy and social employment scheme in history. The DOD is a black hole for money, used to prop up the economy. This has been the case since the US became a SuperPower. There is no FAIR playing field, ingenuity is not rewarded over established and politically connected 'big boys'.
The two party system in USA is not perfect, that's true but better than the EU dictatorship. Ingenuity is rewarded as I've shown in the previous paragraph, but ofcourse there are some connected big boys. That's true for every country.

NEW Enterprise drives economic growth, America is full of established enterprise. America has the same problems as a Socialist country with none of the benifits.
America is full of new and established enterprises. Just compare the growth rate of USA vs EU it's embarrassing. And for me a socialist country has no benefits just theft and corruption. And whole generations of people that rely on social benefits.

Excessive State Power
Massive and Wasteful Government Bureaucracy
Propaganda state based on fear
A Small elite that makes all the money and all the decisions
First is true but the same is true in EU. The wastefulness of USA vs EU can't be compared, EU is full of thieves. There is no fear in USA, it (is/was) the beacon of free speech. While the people have access to guns the goverment will never try and invade the american ideal too much. In EU people have nothing to defend themselves. A small elite, that's not true. If you are sucesfull you can be an elite in USA too. Some are entitled but compare that to socialist USSR.

These are economically and politically observable phenomena. So I disrespect you? Yes I do. I do because you are arguing against factual evidence. I respect your right to believe different in the face of facts, but it doesn't mean you aren't a small-minded $#@!head.
You power of observation is flawed and biased. I never said USA is an ideal country but compared to EU there is no comparisson. Some asian countries are even closer to my ideal concept of a country but I would never fit into that eviroment, so Texas will have to do. And as a plus the weather there is great, there's lots of space and real estate is cheap.
 

Hængebøffer

Senior Member
Jun 4, 2009
25,185
How do you explain the poor social mobility in the USA compared to Scandinavia? America's top 1% got richer and that's it. I'm with John Rawls when it comes to "The American dream".
 

IrishZebra

Western Imperialist
Jun 18, 2006
23,327
This is just false. America is not perfect and Obama is a bad president but just look at Google, Facebook, Twitter, ... If you are capable and smart the USA is still the best place to be. Just look at the Forbes list of young billionaires practically all of them that are self made are americans. You had to go way back in to the past to find Henry Ford, in Europe the matter is much worse.



The two party system in USA is not perfect, that's true but better than the EU dictatorship. Ingenuity is rewarded as I've shown in the previous paragraph, but ofcourse there are some connected big boys. That's true for every country.



America is full of new and established enterprises. Just compare the growth rate of USA vs EU it's embarrassing. And for me a socialist country has no benefits just theft and corruption. And whole generations of people that rely on social benefits.



First is true but the same is true in EU. The wastefulness of USA vs EU can't be compared, EU is full of thieves. There is no fear in USA, it (is/was) the beacon of free speech. While the people have access to guns the goverment will never try and invade the american ideal too much. In EU people have nothing to defend themselves. A small elite, that's not true. If you are sucesfull you can be an elite in USA too. Some are entitled but compare that to socialist USSR.



You power of observation is flawed and biased. I never said USA is an ideal country but compared to EU there is no comparisson. Some asian countries are even closer to my ideal concept of a country but I would never fit into that eviroment, so Texas will have to do. And as a plus the weather there is great, there's lots of space and real estate is cheap.
The EU isn't a nation-state in the same way as the US is, you are comparing 27 countries with One country. For Example, here in Ireland, the economic collapse was caused by both the EU/IMF AND Self-Made Billionaires. All on them to a man were self-made. But they weren't engaging in new enterprise, they were buying into existing enterprise. Ireland was in around 2008 the MOST open economy in the world. Easy for business, supportive of entrepreneurs on paper. But the problem is and I still believe you don't see it, that in income inequality in America is so vast that those who would earn a billion are not the elite, not the chosen few.

Is there a Democratic deficit in the EU? Yep
Do I want my country to be in the EU? Nope
Does my country have problems with Bureaucracy? You bet your ass it does
Is the EU a dictatorship? No
Is social democracy a bad idea? Insofar as universal citizenship, yes, because Social $$$ can buy votes, so money gets wasted. If you had to earn a vote, it would be a much better system. IMO
Is the Single Member non transferable system of political election in the US better? No, it is most certainly not.

The US and the EU have failed their people, but the EU at least has the excuse of consisting of 27 countries and is an economic union with limited political union.

I think you have to understand that I am not advocating one system over another, as both are fucked. I am saying that the problems with government are inherent in ALL systems. None of them work in practice, but theoretical Socialism is infinitely more palatable for the good of humanity, in practice, not so much (although Marshall Tito did an ok job in comparison).

The reason the state exists is to protect people. Today that means physical, economic, and social protection.

The USA does not provide free College, free healthcare and has a serious problem with poverty supports and poverty related crimes.
The EU Social-Democracies like Ireland provide free College with problems, free healthcare with problems, and poverty related supports with poverty related crime a problem too.

You can forgive me for reading your reasons for leaving to the US, when I sit here in Ireland with as good if not better opportunities and conditions, even in a current economic crisis.
 

Edoardo

Junior Member
Feb 28, 2013
219
EU is in practicallity a country. Do you think Ireland can go out? Haha, in your dreams.

How do you explain the poor social mobility in the USA compared to Scandinavia? America's top 1% got richer and that's it. I'm with John Rawls when it comes to "The American dream".
Tell that to the people rioting in Sweden.
 

IrishZebra

Western Imperialist
Jun 18, 2006
23,327
No, there's not treaty mechanism to leave the EU, I've read the treaty law.

You can leave any time you want in practice though, and were I dictator of Ireland, I would, because we trade with the UK and the US more than Europe, I would then establish trade links with China because their premier Loves Ireland.

I'd grow this economy by 20% in 5 years after the initial shock.


But nobody wants to elect me dictator.
 

Nzoric

Grazie Mirko
Jan 16, 2011
37,755
Why in the name of vagina are people debating with Eduardo when he doesn't even know what constitutes an actual country and what constitutes an institution to which countries surrender a bit of sovereignty?
 

IrishZebra

Western Imperialist
Jun 18, 2006
23,327
Why in the name of vagina are people debating with Eduardo when he doesn't even know what constitutes an actual country and what constitutes an institution to which countries surrender a bit of sovereignty?
Because my Girlfriend isn't here an I need my fix of Illogic.
 

kairobo

Junior Member
May 29, 2013
69
you see capitalism works great for creating profits, but only a few can enjoy those, so they made social democracy out of socialism to balance out the shortcommings of pure capitalism, to redristribute wealth to the poorer people so that everyone can live a good live and not just a few.And that is the important part: a society isnt messured by how much profit it makes but how good all of their people live, or how high their living standards are .
and its here so that companies cannot exploit their workers so easily and to reduce the stress of beeing fired and ending up on the street.
Its not stealing its a society. a society that selfish neo liberals like thatcher hated.
when I look at the huge homeless problem the US has and compare it to some riots in sweden or populist nationalist parties in Austria and France then I take europe. easily.
as for your opinion on how much europe and its ideals suck: I dont respect that opinion of yours and here is why:

In the past a society was formed by people who had the same looks and language but the modern society is formed by people who have the same morals and ideas about their society.
you fit in well with americas societies thoughts, and hate europes ideologies. I am not saying gtfo, or that you are not welcome, all I am saying is that I wont addapt to your ideals and that I will oppose them wherever I see them
 

Brandmon

Juventuz irregular
Aug 13, 2008
1,406
Fuck off, I am no bigot....


......doesn't mean I am a racist.....

....you have to attack me because I have a different opinion....
*Tries to find the word "bigot", "racist" or "different" in the previous posts*

Nope. Just as I thought. A raving right-winger.

I'm sorry sir but you aren't ridiculed for your "different opinion" but because your opinion is worth ridiculing as a pastime. Either get used to it or stop whining.
 

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