Summer Mercato Thread 2018 (88 Viewers)

[Gigiventus]

So many uninformed posts complaining about not spending enough as we should given our finances or compared to other clubs with similar revenue.

A quick google search shows we are 10th in revenue in europe (forbes) and 9th in net spend over the last 5 years. What gives? should the management just spend irresponsibly and bankrupt the club like Milan and Inter did?

The way to spend our money would be the argument, but not how much we spend.

 

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[edgardavids2608]

So many uninformed posts complaining about not spending enough as we should given our finances or compared to other clubs with similar revenue.

A quick google search shows we are 10th in revenue in europe (forbes) and 9th in net spend over the last 5 years. What gives? should the management just spend irresponsibly and bankrupt the club like Milan and Inter did?

The way to spend our money would be the argument, but not how much we spend.

Voice of reason!!!

 

[Monty]

So nice to be reading some thoughtful discussions on this forum for once and none of that broken record stuff

 

[Gigiventus]

Had a look in transfermakt over the last 5 seasons of relevant clubs. Excluded EPL+clubs bought by billionaires since its something else.

In net spend according to transfermakt over the last 5 years (deals like Costa are included since they were made in this window of time) in millions of euros:

Barca 351
Juve 148
Bayern 145
Napoli 73
Madrid 49
Atletico -1 (made profit)
Dortmund -77 (made a lot of profit)

Hope that clears things up.

 

[Robee]

Why not? Cuads is pivotal in the CL. He's been essential for us the past few seasons. Tbh, I trust him more than Costa.

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The epitome of mediocrity

Because he's been absolutely shambolic besides a few of the first games of the season. Now he's been out for a while and Costa has been improving with every game. We simply need to release 2 of our 3 attacking lefties behind Higuain.

 

[Scottish]

Had a look in transfermakt over the last 5 seasons of relevant clubs. Excluded EPL+clubs bought by billionaires since its something else.

In net spend according to transfermakt over the last 5 years (deals like Costa are included since they were made in this window of time) in millions of euros:

Barca 351
Juve 148
Bayern 145
Napoli 73
Madrid 49
Atletico -1 (made profit)
Dortmund -77 (made a lot of profit)

Hope that clears things up.

 

[pitbull]

Had a look in transfermakt over the last 5 seasons of relevant clubs. Excluded EPL+clubs bought by billionaires since its something else.

In net spend according to transfermakt over the last 5 years (deals like Costa are included since they were made in this window of time) in millions of euros:

Barca 351
Juve 148
Bayern 145
Napoli 73
Madrid 49
Atletico -1 (made profit)
Dortmund -77 (made a lot of profit)

Hope that clears things up.

That seems about right but wheres the EPL, PSG and RM?

 

[Orgut]

That seems about right but wheres the EPL, PSG and RM?

probably around the 1B..

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Had a look in transfermakt over the last 5 seasons of relevant clubs. Excluded EPL+clubs bought by billionaires since its something else.

In net spend according to transfermakt over the last 5 years (deals like Costa are included since they were made in this window of time) in millions of euros:

Barca 351
Juve 148
Bayern 145
Napoli 73
Madrid 49
Atletico -1 (made profit)
Dortmund -77 (made a lot of profit)

Hope that clears things up.

So in 5 years we spent approximately 30M net per year? Thats not that much...
If we go this way it means we have to sell a big player if we want to purchase one while the difference should be the cheap players that become better and get their value up..
A.Sandro is likely to leave so thats around 65M probably.. so we basically have 95M to spend before offloading other players
I guess we will sell others for another 10-15M while I assume we get Han for 25M so thats 85M to spend
Spinazzola will take over from A.Sandro
so 85M and we need to:
1. Find a great RB
2. Get a great CM
If we go for SMS it means we are at 0 and would need to sacrifice someone for a RB HOWEVER if we go as rumors lately suggest for Fabinho - It means 60M are off the budget and we are left with 25M for a RB which tells the story of our interest in Darmian..

 

[pitbull]

probably around the 1B..

I wonder where Arsenal stands in comparison with Bayern, because I'm pretty sure that if they'd meet again in a knockout match, it'd again end 2:10

 

[Gigiventus]

That seems about right but wheres the EPL, PSG and RM?

probably around the 1B..

Real Madrid is there at 49m

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So in 5 years we spent approximately 30M net per year? Thats not that much...
If we go this way it means we have to sell a big player if we want to purchase one while the difference should be the cheap players that become better and get their value up..
A.Sandro is likely to leave so thats around 65M probably.. so we basically have 95M to spend before offloading other players
I guess we will sell others for another 10-15M while I assume we get Han for 25M so thats 85M to spend
Spinazzola will take over from A.Sandro
so 85M and we need to:
1. Find a great RB
2. Get a great CM
If we go for SMS it means we are at 0 and would need to sacrifice someone for a RB HOWEVER if we go as rumors lately suggest for Fabinho - It means 60M are off the budget and we are left with 25M for a RB which tells the story of our interest in Darmian..

What a ridiculous comment in the bolded part. That's not that much relative to what?? You just saw what other relevant teams spend. That's it. We are number 2 there. There is no more money to be spent.

 

[pitbull]

Real Madrid is there at 49m

shit they're great at selling wonder how it'll look after this summer though

 

[Gigiventus]

Yeah they sold really well. Conned the EPL with Morata and Danilo getting some 110m for them or something like that.

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That's the thing, as the squad gets better volume changes. The net spend remains around the same figures but buys and sells get more and more expensive. Then the wage bills gets much larger.

The same is happening to us.

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I wonder where Arsenal stands in comparison with Bayern, because I'm pretty sure that if they'd meet again in a knockout match, it'd again end 2:10

Arsenal are exceptionally bad in the transfer market, I'll update it with some EPL teams. They spend considerably more than Bayern.

 

[Xperd]

What a convenient way to exclude like more than half of the teams to make your point about 'net spend'

Sites like Deloitte or Forbes don't mention the revenue gained by players' registration rights and other miscellaneous figures concerning prize money. Juventus earned €550M last year as per Calcio Finanza.

I don't think anyone here suggested Juventus to spend irresponsibly like the Milan clubs but as usual there are some people here who only see black or white and posture like some sort of voice of reason.(which they arent)

 

[Orgut]

Real Madrid is there at 49m

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What a ridiculous comment in the bolded part. That's not that much relative to what?? You just saw what other relevant teams spend. That's it. We are number 2 there. There is no more money to be spent.

Number two without adding EPL and Oil money clubs so we are technically not number 2...
Also did you notice the difference between us and Barca? 70M per year compared to 30M...

 

[pitbull]

Number two without adding EPL and Oil money clubs so we are technically not number 2...
Also did you notice the difference between us and Barca? 70M per year compared to 30M...

I wouldnt suggest to look at the difference in revenues between us and Barca during the past 5 years, quite ugly

 

[Gigiventus]

What a convenient way to exclude like more than half of the teams to make your point about 'net spend'

Sites like Deloitte or Forbes don't mention the revenue gained by players' registration rights and other miscellaneous figures concerning prize money. Juventus earned €550M last year as per Calcio Finanza.

I don't think anyone here suggested Juventus to spend irresponsibly like the Milan clubs but as usual there are some people here who only see black or white and posture like some sort of voice of reason.(which they arent)

Ok. What are you talking about? what convenient way to exclude anything? read exactly the post above you again. Then read my first post in the thread when I included every team and said we were #9.

"revenue gained by players' registration rights" is not a thing. I don't know what you meant by that, you'll have to find real terms. At one point I'll read Deloitte's report more in detail, if they don't include prize money then sure but it still doesn't make much of a difference. We made close to 50m in prize money in CL. Factor in what everyone else made and our position relating to the other big teams still won't change.

Whatever you think or not is up to you. There are posts in the last few pages saying we are spending like Dortmund, that we are spending less than teams with smaller revenue, that we should have a larger net spend in the market, etc. Pay more attention. These numbers have nothing to do with how we spend our money in the market or how we should buy or sell better. Like I said in my first post, that's the actual argument to have. The numbers show the amount we spend in the market framed by what other relevant clubs spend so that there is no misinformation about relative transfer expenditures.

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I wouldnt suggest to look at the difference in revenues between us and Barca during the past 5 years, quite ugly

Exactly.

Here is with PSG plus the bigger EPL teams

City 708
United 567
PSG 474
Barca 351
Arsenal 246
Liverpool 175
Juventus 148
Bayern 145
Chelsea 130
Napoli 73
Madrid 49
Atletico -1
Dortmund -77

So far from the clubs included we spend more in the market than Chelsea and Bayern who have a larger revenue than we do (Deloitte) and are not beaten in spending by any teams with lower revenue (from teams teams I've looked at, suggestions are welcome).

 

[Xperd]

Ok. What are you talking about? what convenient way to exclude anything? read exactly the post above you again. Then read my first post in the thread when I included every team and said we were #9.

"revenue gained by players' registration rights" is not a thing. I don't what you meant by that, you'll have to find real terms. At one point I'll read Deloitte's report more in detail, if they don't include prize money then sure but it still doesn't make much of a difference. We made close to 50m in prize money in CL. Factor in what everyone else made and our position relating to the other big teams still won't change.

Whatever you think or not is up to you. There are posts in the last few pages saying we are spending like Dortmund, that we are spending less than teams with smaller revenue, that we should have a larger net spend in the market, etc. Pay more attention.

Player registration rights as in money gained from player sales basically. Juventus' official balance sheet counts that portion of revenue as well. We're making a lot of money of those youth deals , this is why somehow we're at around €10M net spend for the last 3 years. You can check the data of last summer's activity on transfermarkt.

Since I was involved in this discussion one way or another , let me just give my side of view. I think Juventus ought to take a risk at some point in my opinion. The gap is increasing every season and at some point you need to think of new ways to reinvent yourself. Why I am saying this ? Because our stadium revenue has pretty much maxed out . Our broadcast deal is going to be much lesser than we imagined because of the equal rights rule and the declining league status means we're pretty much left it upon ourselves to turn things around. Now commercially is where we can maximise revenues but for that we need to have a successful league product which the Serie A aint or keep our marketable players for longer like the Pogba's or Dybala's for longer periods and build a team around them, try to increase our visibility through these superstars in turn giving us a better chance of winning CL.

If we keep losing them, we're left in this never ending cycle and the club might reach a saturation point where it could no longer grow until a certain point.

I still believe we should have taken the 'risk' last summer. Keeping Pogba for another year and buying Higuain.

I just want to see this club winning CL just once in my life. That's all. But seeing other leagues and teams significantly outgrowing Juventus, I don't know if I can see us winning it in the near future.

 

[Monty]

Player registration rights as in money gained from player sales basically. Juventus' official balance sheet counts that portion of revenue as well. We're making a lot of money of those youth deals , this is why somehow we're at around €10M net spend for the last 3 years. You can check the data of last summer's activity on transfermarkt.

Since I was involved in this discussion one way or another , let me just give my side of view. I think Juventus ought to take a risk at some point in my opinion. The gap is increasing every season and at some point you need to think of new ways to reinvent yourself. Why I am saying this ? Because our stadium revenue has pretty much maxed out . Our broadcast deal is going to be much lesser than we imagined because of the equal rights rule and the declining league status means we're pretty much left it upon ourselves to turn things around. Now commercially is where we can maximise revenues but for that we need to have a successful league product which the Serie A aint or keep our marketable players for longer like the Pogba's or Dybala's for longer periods and build a team around them, try to increase our visibility through these superstars in turn giving us a better chance of winning CL.

If we keep losing them, we're left in this never ending cycle and the club might reach a saturation point where it could no longer grow until a certain point.

I still believe we should have taken the 'risk' last summer. Keeping Pogba for another year and buying Higuain.

I just want to see this club winning CL just once in my life.

How did that work out for PSG? Most likely knocked out of CL after spending 400mil

Meanwhile Messi was effectively free for Barcelona

I'd rather we do sound business while maintaining a competitive side for a sustainable future

Also transfer numbers need to be coupled with wage bills to get a better picture

 

[Gigiventus]

Player registration rights as in money gained from player sales basically. Juventus' official balance sheet counts that portion of revenue as well. We're making a lot of money of those youth deals , this is why somehow we're at around €10M net spend for the last 3 years. You can check the data of last summer's activity on transfermarkt.

This exactly what is shown in the calculation of transfers. Its all there in the previous posts. (Money spent in transfers)-(Money received). This data is from transfermarkt as you say. Considering them twice would be a mistake. If they were included in the deloitte list then the calculation would have to be: (Total revenue) - (money spent in tranfers). That gets a lot more messy.

By the way, we are not at around 10m net spend for the last 3 years. We are at 31m net per season the last 3 seasons.

 

[Orgut]

Player registration rights as in money gained from player sales basically. Juventus' official balance sheet counts that portion of revenue as well. We're making a lot of money of those youth deals , this is why somehow we're at around €10M net spend for the last 3 years. You can check the data of last summer's activity on transfermarkt.

Since I was involved in this discussion one way or another , let me just give my side of view. I think Juventus ought to take a risk at some point in my opinion. The gap is increasing every season and at some point you need to think of new ways to reinvent yourself. Why I am saying this ? Because our stadium revenue has pretty much maxed out . Our broadcast deal is going to be much lesser than we imagined because of the equal rights rule and the declining league status means we're pretty much left it upon ourselves to turn things around. Now commercially is where we can maximise revenues but for that we need to have a successful league product which the Serie A aint or keep our marketable players for longer like the Pogba's or Dybala's for longer periods and build a team around them, try to increase our visibility through these superstars in turn giving us a better chance of winning CL.

If we keep losing them, we're left in this never ending cycle and the club might reach a saturation point where it could no longer grow until a certain point.

I still believe we should have taken the 'risk' last summer. Keeping Pogba for another year and buying Higuain.

I just want to see this club winning CL just once in my life. That's all. But seeing other leagues and teams significantly outgrowing Juventus, I don't know if I can see us winning it in the near future.

But... This move might make us CL champions.. We do not want that to happen dont we?!

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So to make long story short
We are the most successful 2nd rate budget club (1st rate is EPL PSG and Barca) although I must admit the Real Madrid stat surprised me