Summer mercato 2015 (59 Viewers)

[KB824]

I understand full well that Gotze is the sexier name around these parts, and if I had my way, I would choose Gotze every single time over Draxler. I think I have made it plainly and painfully obvious that I would choose Gotze over every other name that has been linked to us.

But that doesn't mean that Draxler is some second rate player. This kid has some serious skills. He had an injury last year, but he is still only 21 years old (Soon to be 22 in September) I could certainly understand if the talk was centered around Diego or Sneijder, especially after selling Vidal.

Then I would lose my fucking mind and join the chorus of those who feel that this club has no ambition.

 

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[Xperd]

It's relevant because everybody's reasoning to a Vidal sale and Draxler purchase is that this is the same management that's won us so much. But it was the same management that's also seen a 7th place, which means that they too can make mistakes, so why do people believe they are above mistakes today? But all I am reading is defence for every transaction the market like its personal about Marrotta and Paratici. It's not.

I would like to believe that as a fan of the club we have an option to disagree with certain moves. Follow the last few posts and you'll see that there's more resignation and acceptance about the Draxler deal.

Its also the same management that went from a €150m to a €350m turnover while playing in a league that isnt beneficial financially atleast compared to other leagues.
Its also the same management that has turned a €95m loss in 2011 to break-even levels right now.
Its also the same management that has totally secured our future long term atleast in terms of Serie A.No other club is as financially healthy as Juventus is now in Italy.This was unthinkabale 4-5 yrs ago.
Not to mention the fact that we have first dibs on pretty much every young talent in the league especially Italians.

Positives by far outweigh the negatives,it isnt even funny.

 

[baggio]

Not exactly forced but just there's no point bitching and having doomsday posts all over when we are into a new season with many changes.We should be excited infact.
If we were in the middle of a season and we are not getting results,i would understand the pessimism and frustration but not now.

No doomsday at all. We are on the right path but that doesn't mean we aren't prone to mistakes.

 

[Xperd]

No doomsday at all. We are on the right path but that doesn't mean we aren't prone to mistakes.

No they arent but they should be given the benefit of the doubt.They are dead sure of what they're doing in my opinion.

This is a club that sets realistic expectations as well unlike other clubs which delude the fans but never really achieve the objectives.

 

[baggio]

Its also the same management that went from a €150m to a €350m turnover while playing in a league that isnt beneficial financially atleast compared to other leagues.
Its also the same management that has turned a €95m loss in 2011 to break-even levels right now.
Its also the same management that has totally secured our future long term atleast in terms of Serie A.No other club is as financially healthy as Juventus is now in Italy.This was unthinkabale 4-5 yrs ago.
Not to mention the fact that we have first dibs on pretty every young talent in the league especially Italians.

Positives by far outweigh the negatives,it isnt even funny.

So we aren't entitled to question the Draxler move and Vidal sale as a result of this? Why do all these posts in defense of the management become so extreme, nobody is saying to fire or replace them. But it's crazy to justify certain moves the way they are being justified here.

 

[Xperd]

So we aren't entitled to question the Draxler move and Vidal sale as a result of this? Why do all these posts in defense of the management become so extreme, nobody is saying to fire or replace them. But it's crazy to justify certain moves the way they are being justified here.

I dint say that.
Ofcourse people will get upset and they have every right to question the move but as i said,give them the benefit of the doubt.Why jump to conclusions ?
What if Draxler does a Morata ? You would've unnecessarily wasted all your energy in questioning the moves made by the management.

 

[KB824]

It's relevant because everybody's reasoning to a Vidal sale and Draxler purchase is that this is the same management that's won us so much. But it was the same management that's also seen a 7th place, which means that they too can make mistakes, so why do people believe they are above mistakes today? But all I am reading is defence for every transaction the market like its personal about Marrotta and Paratici. It's not.

I would like to believe that as a fan of the club we have an option to disagree with certain moves. Follow the last few posts and you'll see that there's more resignation and acceptance about the Draxler deal like he's the greatest thing walking god's good earth now that the management is after him. I'd love to see what happens if we sign Goetze now. The same justifications will turn on their heads mind you. The same guys who say we have financial concerns to consider will then talk about CL money and Draxler being the perfect smokescreen to put pressure on Goetze to accept our wage policy. Bit of a vicious cycle.

They made an 18 million euro mistake already in this transfer market by purchasing Zaza. I only see one reason for that move, if it is a gateway to a more reasonable price for Berardi next year. I didn't like him at Sassuolo, and I don't like him now.

I don't think it is a situation where Marotta and Paratici are above reproach, but I think it is a situation where they more than deserve the benefit of the doubt for the work they have done in its entirety. But to be honest, I don't see that. What I saw, and see, is very very cautious optimism only up until the point where something is done that angers the populace, and it is back to square one again with the faith in the management. Suddenly, Juve are a provincial team again with no ambition. Why, because they sold one guy? Even if that guy was Vidal. He was an unknown commodity outside Germany, and Juve turned him into the player that he is now. That has always been Juve's Modus Operandi. When was the last time this club bought an established superstar? Juve always creates superstars. Nedved wasn't a superstar when he was purchased. Neither was Buffon or Ibra for that matter.

Let's wait and see how this all plays out, my brother. I still love you by the way, even though your avatar makes me have seizures

 

[baggio]

No they arent but they should be given the benefit of the doubt.They are dead sure of what they're doing in my opinion.

This is a club that sets realistic expectations as well unlike other clubs which delude the fans but never really achieve the objectives.

This is an interesting talking point. Given where we are, this is what I'm questioning. We are being a bit too cautious with our strategy.. All I'm saying is we are in a position to sign that elusive top player because of the conditions backing us but you could argue we are taking a safer route, financially speaking, and to truly go to the next level, you perhaps won't have much better opportunities.

 

[KB824]

This is an interesting talking point. Given where we are, this is what I'm questioning. We are being a bit too cautious with our strategy.. All I'm saying is we are in a position to sign that elusive top player because of the conditions backing us but you could argue we are taking a safer route, financially speaking, and to truly go to the next level, you perhaps won't have much better opportunities.

I think that your theory is under the presumption that Juve are only 1 player away. See, I don't believe that. I truly think that this club went as far as it could last year with the players they had, and I feel that the management knows this. I think they know that they need to start building for the next cycle of Juve, and if it means sacrificing an asset such as Vidal, then it was something that they felt they had to do.

 

[Valerio.]

So we aren't entitled to question the Draxler move and Vidal sale as a result of this? Why do all these posts in defense of the management become so extreme, nobody is saying to fire or replace them. But it's crazy to justify certain moves the way they are being justified here.

Exactly. Just saying i would have spent the money in a different way. Instead of bringing 3 strikers for big prices and only one will play together with Morata leaving the other two on the bench. That's crazy if you ask.
Instead of Dybala (32+8), Mandzukic (19) and Zaza (18) plus the sale of Llorente (11-15m) and Vidal (38+4) i would have gone for Cavani (50),Goetze (40), Fekir (25).
STOP. Proven players and a double AM cause Goetze can also play as SS and AM.

Cavani(Morata)-Goetze(Coman)
----Fekir(Goetze/Pereyra)

Freeing 23,5m in net wages so we could afford Cavani (10m net wage), Goetze 6-7m net wage and Fekir 3-3,5m net wage.

<.< that what i would have done not saying that Marotta and co are doing wrong but i would have done it differently.

 

[baggio]

I dint say that.
Ofcourse people will get upset and they have every right to question the move but as i said,give them the benefit of the doubt.Why jump to conclusions ?
What if Draxler does a Morata ? You would've unnecessarily wasted all your energy in questioning the moves made by the management.

Nothing would make me happier than if Draxler explodes here. I even said yesterday Beppe and Paratici would get all the credit if that were to happen. That's not where the problem lies. The problem lies in the fact that now that we are signing him it is believed that there is nobody else given the situation. That's where the issue lies. And like I said above, even if we signed Mhiktarayan, the argument would be exactly the same with justifications in response to the calibre of the player. This is where the dissonance lies.

 

[Lapa]

Who the fuck is Fekir? Your lineup doesn't look much better than what we have now.

 

[KB824]

Nothing would make me happier than if Draxler explodes here. I even said yesterday Beppe and Paratici would get all the credit if that were to happen. That's not where the problem lies. The problem lies in the fact that now that we are signing him it is believed that there is nobody else given the situation. That's where the issue lies. And like I said above, even if we signed Mhiktarayan, the argument would be exactly the same with justifications in response to the calibre of the player. This is where the dissonance lies.

Who else is there for the Trequartista position? Aside form Gotze , of course.

Some of the other names like Mata and Silva would only happen if and when the De Bruyne domino effect starts to take place, and then you are looking at time being of the essence.

 

[alexjuventino]

Who the $#@! is Fekir? Your lineup doesn't look much better than what we have now.

Plays for Lyon

 

[Lapa]

Plays for Lyon

Sounds like a proven WC player.

 

[Xperd]

Exactly. Just saying i would have spent the money in a different way. Instead of bringing 3 strikers for big prices and only one will play together with Morata leaving the other two on the bench. That's crazy if you ask.
Instead of Dybala (32+8), Mandzukic (19) and Zaza (18) plus the sale of Llorente (11-15m) and Vidal (38+4) i would have gone for Cavani (50),Goetze (40), Fekir (25).
STOP. Proven players and a double AM cause Goetze can also play as SS and AM.

Cavani(Morata)-Goetze(Coman)
----Fekir(Goetze/Pereyra)

Freeing 23,5m in net wages so we could afford Cavani (10m net wage), Goetze 6-7m net wage and Fekir 3-3,5m net wage.

<.< that what i would have done not saying that Marotta and co are doing wrong but i would have done it differently.

Assuming Cavani is available for 50m and PSG want to sell

Assuming Goetze is available for 40m and Bayern want to sell

Assuming Fekir is available for 25m and Lyon want to sell.

Pure assumptions and in reality all those three players will go for much higher fees and wages which is difficult for us.

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Nothing would make me happier than if Draxler explodes here. I even said yesterday Beppe and Paratici would get all the credit if that were to happen. That's not where the problem lies. The problem lies in the fact that now that we are signing him it is believed that there is nobody else given the situation. That's where the issue lies. And like I said above, even if we signed Mhiktarayan, the argument would be exactly the same with justifications in response to the calibre of the player. This is where the dissonance lies.

Calibre of player ? Is that what you were saying regarding Morata last yr ?

Morata now is one of the top young strikers in Europe.

Draxler was/is a highly touted young player but the injury has halted his progress by a bit.If we can mould him into a world class player,would you question his calibre ?

 

[alexjuventino]

Not to change the topic but alot of people were against Morata last season and I thought it was hilarious.

 

[baggio]

They made an 18 million euro mistake already in this transfer market by purchasing Zaza. I only see one reason for that move, if it is a gateway to a more reasonable price for Berardi next year. I didn't like him at Sassuolo, and I don't like him now.

I don't think it is a situation where Marotta and Paratici are above reproach, but I think it is a situation where they more than deserve the benefit of the doubt for the work they have done in its entirety. But to be honest, I don't see that. What I saw, and see, is very very cautious optimism only up until the point where something is done that angers the populace, and it is back to square one again with the faith in the management. Suddenly, Juve are a provincial team again with no ambition. Why, because they sold one guy? Even if that guy was Vidal. He was an unknown commodity outside Germany, and Juve turned him into the player that he is now. That has always been Juve's Modus Operandi. When was the last time this club bought an established superstar? Juve always creates superstars. Nedved wasn't a superstar when he was purchased. Neither was Buffon or Ibra for that matter.

Let's wait and see how this all plays out, my brother. I still love you by the way, even though your avatar makes me have seizures

Seizures haha love it big guy.

I think that your theory is under the presumption that Juve are only 1 player away. See, I don't believe that. I truly think that this club went as far as it could last year with the players they had, and I feel that the management knows this. I think they know that they need to start building for the next cycle of Juve, and if it means sacrificing an asset such as Vidal, then it was something that they felt they had to do.

Interesting take there, but the truth is somewhere in the middle. Also you're seemingly linking the sale of Vidal to the new cycle, is not entirely true because a lot the buying was already done, Vidal is only making way for one more player, and that player is likely coming at a price that we could've afforded without his sale.

I agree about the ceiling off the team having been breached, but we needed the rebuild process to be more optimised than it is, with similar profile of player coming in to replace a Tevez/Vidal especially in the final third. Given that our defense and midfield have another 5 years the way they are now. We were in a great position to smoothen the transistor of the rebuild but it's probably trickier than it needed to be with Vidals sale and possibly Pogba next year.

After losing attractiveness and profile names like Tevez and Pirlo it could and should've been avoided if it was for a name like Draxler.

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Not to change the topic but alot of people were against Morata last season and I thought it was hilarious.

True. But there was less to worry about coz we still had Tevez and Llorente to fall back on. This years trickier.

 

[Cheesio]

This is an interesting talking point. Given where we are, this is what I'm questioning. We are being a bit too cautious with our strategy.. All I'm saying is we are in a position to sign that elusive top player because of the conditions backing us but you could argue we are taking a safer route, financially speaking, and to truly go to the next level, you perhaps won't have much better opportunities.

This.

Something we mustn't forget is the fact that if we want to keep players like Pogba, we must show our ambition, sign WC player and be a CL protagonist every year, not taking a step back and starting a new project this year.

 

[alexjuventino]

This.

Something we mustn't forget is the fact that if we want to keep players like Pogba, we must show our ambition, sign WC player and be a CL protagonist every year, not taking a step back and starting a new project this year.

so we have to convince pogba to stay by signing world class players? Is that how it works?