[SPA] La I beat you 8-0 Liga 2012/2013 (19 Viewers)
- Thread starter Azzurri7
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I love Marchisio, but come on, no need to over-rate the shit out of everyone simply because they play for Juventus, like some here do with Matri, Marchisio, Giac, etc... 
Cesc is actually a central midfielder/attacking mid being deployed further up the pitch as a false number 9 due to circumstance. However, his natural position is more af a CM/AMF.
He is definitely better than Marchisio in terms of passing and distribution, not to mention his reading and understanding of the game. Marchisio is more physically imposing and dynamic, but lacks the vision and finesse of Fabregas.
He is definitely better than Marchisio in terms of passing and distribution, not to mention his reading and understanding of the game. Marchisio is more physically imposing and dynamic, but lacks the vision and finesse of Fabregas.
@Fred lightyears is a bit of an exaggeration. You need to improve your trolling abilities. If we are talking about a midfield trio of Busquets, Xavi, and Iniesta (considering that Messi is part of their attack and not their midfield; the same applies to Fabregas), then Juve's midfield trio of Pirlo, Vidal, and Marchisio is definitely comparable. It's probably inferior, but not by much.
I am seriously not trolling now, and yes I consider Iniesta and Xavi to be light years ahead of Marchisio and Vidal, only a Juventus fan will disagree. Pirlo offers that balance, as he's the only one in that midfield that can truly be considered world class, but overall as a unit, Barca's midfield is absolutely dominant, comparing Juventus's midfield to them is laughable, i'm sorry.
both operate in different systems and the roles of the players varies too..Its absolutely asinine to compare Xavi and Iniesta with the likes of Vidal and Marchisio when the system is different and roles of those players are different too..
Overall as a unit though i agree..The functioning and effectiveness of Barcelona's midfield is no doubt better than Juventus'
Overall as a unit though i agree..The functioning and effectiveness of Barcelona's midfield is no doubt better than Juventus'
I'm not disagreeing. I just said that the usage of the term lightyears is inappropriate, as there is a gap, but it's not as substantial as you make it out to be. Vidal is coming off a marvelous season, and he can only improve and develop as a player. Obviously, Iniesta and Xavi are better than Vidal and Marchisio, and I doubt anyone would disagree with that statement/assessment.
They are much better and function a lot better as a unit. Any impartial Juventus fan will swap the duo in a heartbeat as well. Vidal and Marchisio just had a very good season as a midfield duo, they complete each other really, and its easy for Juventus fans to get carried away by that and overrate the two. That is completely understandable. I as a non Juve fan see it as clear as day, but for biased people like Nicholas, they will always try and convince themselves that players like Marchisio are comparable to Xavi, Iniesta or Fabregas(when he plays as a CM)
I never said that they are, and I'm as unbiased and objective as far as Juventus fans go; I sometimes even berate our own players FFS.
My point of contention is not whether they are superior or not. You are saying they are lightyears ahead; I'm merely stating that they are better, but not by such a substantial margin. So, let's say you rate Barca's midfield as 9 or 9.5 (to which I would agree), I'd give Juve's a 7.5 or 8. Pirlo has been magnificent, and obviously he provides a lot of balance. A lot is riding on how he performs next season as well.
I wouldn't swap any of our midfielders for Barca's, not because they are better, but because the way our midfield functions/performs as a unit, and I intend to keep it that way
My point of contention is not whether they are superior or not. You are saying they are lightyears ahead; I'm merely stating that they are better, but not by such a substantial margin. So, let's say you rate Barca's midfield as 9 or 9.5 (to which I would agree), I'd give Juve's a 7.5 or 8. Pirlo has been magnificent, and obviously he provides a lot of balance. A lot is riding on how he performs next season as well.
I wouldn't swap any of our midfielders for Barca's, not because they are better, but because the way our midfield functions/performs as a unit, and I intend to keep it that way
I never said that they are, and I'm as unbiased and objective as far as Juventus fans go; I sometimes even berate our own players FFS.
My point of contention is not whether they are superior or not. You are saying they are lightyears ahead; I'm merely stating that they are better, but not by such a substantial margin. So, let's say you rate Barca's midfield as 9 or 9.5 (to which I would agree), I'd give Juve's a 7.5 or 8. Pirlo has been magnificent, and obviously he provides a lot of balance. A lot is riding on how he performs next season as well.
I wouldn't swap any of our midfielders for Barca's, not because they are better, but because the way our midfield functions/performs as a unit, and I intend to keep it that way
My point of contention is not whether they are superior or not. You are saying they are lightyears ahead; I'm merely stating that they are better, but not by such a substantial margin. So, let's say you rate Barca's midfield as 9 or 9.5 (to which I would agree), I'd give Juve's a 7.5 or 8. Pirlo has been magnificent, and obviously he provides a lot of balance. A lot is riding on how he performs next season as well.
I wouldn't swap any of our midfielders for Barca's, not because they are better, but because the way our midfield functions/performs as a unit, and I intend to keep it that way
I was going to agree when you said that you are one of the least biased members here when it comes to Juventus, but then you go on and say the (2nd)bolded part, and destroy your credibility.
Can you seriously, with a straight face tell me you wouldn't swap Marchisio for Iniesta in a friggin heartbeat. The only player in your midfield worth that statement is Pirlo. Marchisio and Vidal are good midfielders, and it doesn't do them much justice when you compare them to world class, dominant, and insanely consistent midfielders like Xavi and Iniesta. Juve's midfield was a revelation last season, really was, but comparing them to Barca's midfield, or even saying that the difference between the two isn't huge, is imo laughable, to be blunt.
Plus lets not forget that as good as Juve's midfield was last season, they still haven't been tested in the CL yet, so that is a test they have to pass before we get ahead of ourselves and proclaim them the best thing since sliced bread.
^^and yet you continue to be ignorant ?Read properly on what he actually says..
Now is this so hard to understand ?The system is vastly different to Barca..Pirlo is literally the system at Juventus and you need midfielders who are astute tactically ,players with grinta and who are defensively very good to cover him which Xavi and Iniesta are not hence why i wouldnt swap them with Vidal and Marchisio..
If Pirlo is removed from the system,then thats a completely different question altogether..
Now is this so hard to understand ?The system is vastly different to Barca..Pirlo is literally the system at Juventus and you need midfielders who are astute tactically ,players with grinta and who are defensively very good to cover him which Xavi and Iniesta are not hence why i wouldnt swap them with Vidal and Marchisio..
If Pirlo is removed from the system,then thats a completely different question altogether..
Fabregas doesnt match Marchisio in terms of tactical awareness and work rate..In this current Juventus setup Fabregas wont start over Marchisio which is what i meant when i said Fabregas cannot do what Marchisio does in his current "role" at Juventus(or as good as him rather)..
When you speak about the two of them as individuals i've always admitted Cesc is more talented than Marchisio.
When you speak about the two of them as individuals i've always admitted Cesc is more talented than Marchisio.
In this current set up Fabregas WOULD easily start over Marchisio, because he does what Marchisio does, box to box, ALOT more efficiently (is very direct player), while offering heaps of creativity and is hardly a slouch at when it comes to putting in work and generally being quite tactically drilled player. Their zones and role in the pitch is pretty similar, Marchisio is far from some uber work rate DM, he is a two-way midfielder that is fairly resilitient and fills in where is needed in open spaces (moves into channels offensively) and links up decently with others. functions only in 3 man midfields, if he was as you describe him as a player (so hardworking and strong CM player) he would be able to be viable in 2 man CM pair, which he isnt, functions best as a complimentary player in 3 man midfield.
Seriously, we CAN appriciate what Marchisio does for us (and I defenitely do, especially this past season) without being deluded and thinking there is a chance he can possibly be better then a world class player like Fabregas.
If the weird fake forward role in Barca made peeps forget what an absolute top class midfielder he is (also bit too direct as a player for their piti-pata approach), here is a reminder:
Seriously, we CAN appriciate what Marchisio does for us (and I defenitely do, especially this past season) without being deluded and thinking there is a chance he can possibly be better then a world class player like Fabregas.
If the weird fake forward role in Barca made peeps forget what an absolute top class midfielder he is (also bit too direct as a player for their piti-pata approach), here is a reminder: