[SP] La Liga 2004/05 (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Stu
- Start date
erm can some1 help me check if Forlan scored 18 goals or 15 goals this season, becos goal.com reported it was actually 15, and I counted every match that Villarreal played, which showed 15
http://www.goal.com/DWH_Actor.aspx?idSquadra=133&idStagione=9&idPersona=1963&name=Forlan Diego
I think Villarreal can get a spot for the CL, Forlan + Riquelme is playing really well. Valencia can aim for UEFA Cup.
http://www.goal.com/DWH_Actor.aspx?idSquadra=133&idStagione=9&idPersona=1963&name=Forlan Diego
I think Villarreal can get a spot for the CL, Forlan + Riquelme is playing really well. Valencia can aim for UEFA Cup.
Chronicles Of An Overrated Galactico
4/5/2005 3:38:00 AM
I hate to be a person that piles on in a situation that does not favour an individual, but my belief is coming to fruition, writes Juan Arango. Raúl Gonzalez Blanco is not the best player in Spain, and can be considered the most overrated player in football history…
‘Babystar’, ‘pichichi’, ‘idol’, wow what a difference a few years of not succeeding make. The Spanish press is calling for his head and the chants are getting to him. Maybe he’s slumping? Maybe he is on his way down? Hey, here’s a concept, what about him not being all that he was hyped up to be. The jury is still out on him outside of Spanish borders (although Raúl is not even liked in certain areas of Spain, Catalunya for starters.). How can a player be one of the top scorers in Champions League history, all-time leader in his respective national team, two-time Pichichi in La Liga, multiple Champions League winner – and yet be the most overrated player in the football world? Well that is exactly it. Raúl is the most overrated footballer in the world, although his present form has made detractors out of some of the most unconditional of fans. As good as Raúl has been for Spanish football, the jury is still out on him throughout the rest of Europe. Some people might have a great resume, but with absolutely nothing won at the National Team level, you have to start questioning him.
What do Peja Mijatovic, Clarence Seedorf, Fernando Hierro, Zinedine Zidane, Luis Figo, Ronaldo, Guti, Michael Owen, Steve McManaman, Nicola Anelka, Roberto Carlos, Fernando Redondo, (hold on let me catch my breath), Christian Panucci, Claude Makelele, Fernando Morientes - would you like me to keep going? – have in common? Well, they are the players that did all the work for Raúl to achieve his faux fame. My point is that if superior talent surrounds a player, how can he NOT score?
If a player faces the marking that Raúl did (also consider the defense in La Liga in comparison to other leagues) he has to be somewhat successful. This is true especially now, where he is in a situation where he does not take up the marking that players like Ronaldo and Michael Owen do. Raúl, on his best day, would only be able to carry Ronaldo’s bag into the stadium.
But realize this; his presence is all the more telling of the team’s lack of leadership. He was at his most successful when he played with Fernando Hierro and Claude Makelele. Real Madrid’s true leaders, which is why they are trophy-less since these two players were let go by the Merengue brass. These two brought stability and grit, two intangibles that are desperately needed in order to be successful. These intangibles that Raúl does not have. When they left, he no longer was the poacher that he once was. Enter Ronaldo… further back he had to play and it started to affect his goal scoring totals.
At the national team level, he is all the more insignificant. There is no way that he should even be playing. Luis Aragones finally realized this and benched him in favor of an inspired Ivan de la Peña prior to the game against Serbia and Montenegro. When he did step on to the pitch, he showed energy, but was not able to complement a Fernando Torres playing the point. The whole point to what I am saying is that he excels when the spotlight is not on him and solely him. His spine acquires the firmness of a jellyfish in the big games.
Look, I like the guy, he is the most emblematic player in Spain. For morale he is a good thing, but emblematizing a person will not win you a game. How can the “best” player on your national team be the sixth or even seventh best player on his own club team (I am being kind to David Beckham, but that is another topic I will prod in the future)? As a matter of fact, forget what I just said. Raúl is the third or fourth best striker on his team… even on his best day.
Many of his qualities include his goal scoring knack and dribbling, but his deficiencies are starting to come to the forefront because of his slump for over the past year and change.
Hey I admire the fact that he is the all time leading scorer in Spanish National Team history, but hey, having a monstrous paternity against the Faroe Islands (the team he has scored most against at the national team level with 8). In qualifiers and friendlies (just ask Germany), he is deadly. But, ladies and gentlemen, in reality he is not a player I would want in a big game. What goal is the most memorable one of his in a big game? Probably, Juventus in 1998? What was Raúl’s most meaningful goal at the national team level? What about the ones he scored against Germany and Ireland? Well, those were friendlies. Other than that, there is nothing to show for his alleged greatness. He did score against France (actually Gaizka Mendieta scored, Raúl missed the chance to tie the game… can you say choke). In World Cup 2002, injury did not help him perform, but he would not have made a big difference in the grand scheme of things for La Furia in Korea. Even this year, the stakes were high in the Champions League he faded away just like the rest of his team, allowing a wounded Vecchia Signora to move on to the next round. After that, there is nothing that will back him up. All I can tell you is that Michael Owen has taken his spot. If this season’s performance does not prove it, based on the goals scored and minutes played, then Florentino Perez, Arrigo Sacchi and Vanderlei Luxemburgo are all as myopic as the most rabid of Madrid fans.
goal.com
4/5/2005 3:38:00 AM
I hate to be a person that piles on in a situation that does not favour an individual, but my belief is coming to fruition, writes Juan Arango. Raúl Gonzalez Blanco is not the best player in Spain, and can be considered the most overrated player in football history…
‘Babystar’, ‘pichichi’, ‘idol’, wow what a difference a few years of not succeeding make. The Spanish press is calling for his head and the chants are getting to him. Maybe he’s slumping? Maybe he is on his way down? Hey, here’s a concept, what about him not being all that he was hyped up to be. The jury is still out on him outside of Spanish borders (although Raúl is not even liked in certain areas of Spain, Catalunya for starters.). How can a player be one of the top scorers in Champions League history, all-time leader in his respective national team, two-time Pichichi in La Liga, multiple Champions League winner – and yet be the most overrated player in the football world? Well that is exactly it. Raúl is the most overrated footballer in the world, although his present form has made detractors out of some of the most unconditional of fans. As good as Raúl has been for Spanish football, the jury is still out on him throughout the rest of Europe. Some people might have a great resume, but with absolutely nothing won at the National Team level, you have to start questioning him.
What do Peja Mijatovic, Clarence Seedorf, Fernando Hierro, Zinedine Zidane, Luis Figo, Ronaldo, Guti, Michael Owen, Steve McManaman, Nicola Anelka, Roberto Carlos, Fernando Redondo, (hold on let me catch my breath), Christian Panucci, Claude Makelele, Fernando Morientes - would you like me to keep going? – have in common? Well, they are the players that did all the work for Raúl to achieve his faux fame. My point is that if superior talent surrounds a player, how can he NOT score?
If a player faces the marking that Raúl did (also consider the defense in La Liga in comparison to other leagues) he has to be somewhat successful. This is true especially now, where he is in a situation where he does not take up the marking that players like Ronaldo and Michael Owen do. Raúl, on his best day, would only be able to carry Ronaldo’s bag into the stadium.
But realize this; his presence is all the more telling of the team’s lack of leadership. He was at his most successful when he played with Fernando Hierro and Claude Makelele. Real Madrid’s true leaders, which is why they are trophy-less since these two players were let go by the Merengue brass. These two brought stability and grit, two intangibles that are desperately needed in order to be successful. These intangibles that Raúl does not have. When they left, he no longer was the poacher that he once was. Enter Ronaldo… further back he had to play and it started to affect his goal scoring totals.
At the national team level, he is all the more insignificant. There is no way that he should even be playing. Luis Aragones finally realized this and benched him in favor of an inspired Ivan de la Peña prior to the game against Serbia and Montenegro. When he did step on to the pitch, he showed energy, but was not able to complement a Fernando Torres playing the point. The whole point to what I am saying is that he excels when the spotlight is not on him and solely him. His spine acquires the firmness of a jellyfish in the big games.
Look, I like the guy, he is the most emblematic player in Spain. For morale he is a good thing, but emblematizing a person will not win you a game. How can the “best” player on your national team be the sixth or even seventh best player on his own club team (I am being kind to David Beckham, but that is another topic I will prod in the future)? As a matter of fact, forget what I just said. Raúl is the third or fourth best striker on his team… even on his best day.
Many of his qualities include his goal scoring knack and dribbling, but his deficiencies are starting to come to the forefront because of his slump for over the past year and change.
Hey I admire the fact that he is the all time leading scorer in Spanish National Team history, but hey, having a monstrous paternity against the Faroe Islands (the team he has scored most against at the national team level with 8). In qualifiers and friendlies (just ask Germany), he is deadly. But, ladies and gentlemen, in reality he is not a player I would want in a big game. What goal is the most memorable one of his in a big game? Probably, Juventus in 1998? What was Raúl’s most meaningful goal at the national team level? What about the ones he scored against Germany and Ireland? Well, those were friendlies. Other than that, there is nothing to show for his alleged greatness. He did score against France (actually Gaizka Mendieta scored, Raúl missed the chance to tie the game… can you say choke). In World Cup 2002, injury did not help him perform, but he would not have made a big difference in the grand scheme of things for La Furia in Korea. Even this year, the stakes were high in the Champions League he faded away just like the rest of his team, allowing a wounded Vecchia Signora to move on to the next round. After that, there is nothing that will back him up. All I can tell you is that Michael Owen has taken his spot. If this season’s performance does not prove it, based on the goals scored and minutes played, then Florentino Perez, Arrigo Sacchi and Vanderlei Luxemburgo are all as myopic as the most rabid of Madrid fans.
goal.com
just read the most harrowing article. check it out here:
http://football.guardian.co.uk/continentalfootball/story/0,15758,1452024,00.html
http://football.guardian.co.uk/continentalfootball/story/0,15758,1452024,00.html
The demonisation of a new dirty genius
Like Myra Hindley, Rose West and Debbie McGee, Sevilla centre-back Javi Navarro is one half of a truly terrifying duo, partner in crime to Dr Pablo Alfaro the dirty genius - a qualified gynaecologist and Spain's most infamous, clever and resourceful hardman.
Dr Alfaro is the man that even one of the first division's most nails defenders (himself described as "a psychopath; the hardest man on earth" by a team-mate) insists goes "too far, too often". He is the man who boasts more red cards than any other in Spain. And he is the man who perpetrated the ultimate act of filthy footballing genius last season, by inserting his finger into an opponent's arse - an opponent marvellously named Toché.
Article continues
But while once he was Alfaro's apprentice, now nasty Navarro is the master - what with Alfaro growing as slow as a wheelie-trolley-wielding granny down a narrow supermarket aisle and increasingly finding himself left out in favour of also-pretty-rock, gay magazine cover star Aitor Ocio. Despite his as-yet unproven ability in the nifty finger-work stakes, Navarro has caught up with Dr Alfaro when it comes to the dark arts. Like throttling, booting up in the air and gauging out eyes. Or maiming people.
Which is what he did at Son Moix two weeks ago when he crashed into Real Mallorca's Juan Arango. The Venezuelan ended up with 47 stitches, a fractured cheek-bone and a couple of days in intensive care. If Mallorca's medical operation had not been so smooth, quick and successful Arango would have died, bleeding heavily on the pitch having swallowed his tongue, suffered convulsions and passed out. He remained unconscious for nearly three-quarters of an hour, while his wife, down at the dressing room door, wept. Live on telly.
Fortunately, Arango is going to be OK. One team-mate this weekend admitted, before his side all but confirmed relegation with a 4-0 stuffing at Atlético, that he "looks absolutely fine - you'd never believe that he had so many stitches, there's only really a little mark by his lip."
Which is a relief, but it has done little to take the pressure off Javi Navarro, now everyone's favourite evil enemy, the witch at the centre of the witchhunt. His challenge, insisted Arango's father, "was attempted homicide" and however much Navarro, who did admit to "not exactly going round handing out sweeties", protested his innocence it made no difference.
Mallorca president Mateo Almenay, describing the challenge as an "assault", demanded an "exemplary" ban and announced that the club would take legal action, and the press joined in. Spain's most respected columnist called Navarro a "savage", one radio station cunningly invented the world 'manymultireoffender' to describe him and his propensity for violent crimes, and for once front covers weren't graced with Madrid, Barça or Fernando bloody Alonso. Navarro hardly deserves the benefit of the doubt when he insists that he didn't mean it. But the challenge was far from clear-cut: with the ball in the middle, the two players ran towards each other and as they crashed into each other Navarro lifted his arm up in what looked like an attempt to protect himself. From the side angle it looks rather more like a forearm smash, it is true, but it remains unclear.
Certainly not clear enough to say with any real conviction that Navarro meant it - even though a conviction is exactly what much of the press, still piqued at recent, infamous battles between Madrid and Sevilla, are after. There is a willingness to get Navarro that was lacking (except in the agent who foolishly tried to start a fight with him) when Thomas Gravesen creamed Getafe's Gabi and brilliantly only half insisted: "I never try to hurt anyone, especially not on the pitch. (But whacking people in the street is fine)."
Navarro's was a different case, though: a player with a long, bloody record, playing for a club famed for being hard, he had nearly killed someone (although the effectiveness of a bad challenge shouldn't really be the measure of how bad it is). And he had done so at the worst possible time - just as international week began, leaving the press with hundreds of pages to fill and nothing else to talk about except how horrible he is.
Well, almost nothing: when Spain play there's always another chance to point out how indispensable Raúl is, a chance to run massive headlines declaring, "Raúl always returns" (which of course he does: for one night only, every six or seven months), or this column's favourite from the past week's 0-0 draw with Bosnia: "Raúl came on and we nearly won." Nearly. Just as the press nearly forgot about Navarro for a day.
Small wonder, then, that Pablo Alfaro moaned that "even the worst serial killers" - by which he presumably means those who kill a lot rather than the ones who are so bad they don't get beyond the first - "don't get treated like this". After two weeks of Sevilla-bashing, his president agreed, groaning: "Javi has been demonised: the only question mark left is whether he should be hanged, shot or stoned to death."
So, when Navarro, still awaiting his fate, went onto the pitch to face Numancia yesterday, wearing the captain's armband and cheered on by the Sevilla fans who carried banners supporting him, he knew he would be watched like a hawk. On the face of it, that wasn't a bad idea either - after all, but for a moment of Jesús Navas genius, the game itself was dire. Yet if anyone expected more action from the bad boy they went home sorely disappointed: the Sevilla centre-back failed to commit a single foul. All game long.
*If Navarro did nothing, Alfonso Pino Zamorano the referee who, much to the disgust of the Madrid press, only gave him a yellow in Mallorca and was also under close scrutiny had another exciting afternoon, gifting Barça a vital penalty from an outrageous dive. Now the whinging about scandalous refereeing, political conspiracies and robberies are coming from the other side. Just in time to crank up next weekend's Madrid-Barça clasico at the Bernabéu. Genius.
courtsey: Guardian Unlimited Football
Is this what Spanish football has become?
Like Myra Hindley, Rose West and Debbie McGee, Sevilla centre-back Javi Navarro is one half of a truly terrifying duo, partner in crime to Dr Pablo Alfaro the dirty genius - a qualified gynaecologist and Spain's most infamous, clever and resourceful hardman.
Dr Alfaro is the man that even one of the first division's most nails defenders (himself described as "a psychopath; the hardest man on earth" by a team-mate) insists goes "too far, too often". He is the man who boasts more red cards than any other in Spain. And he is the man who perpetrated the ultimate act of filthy footballing genius last season, by inserting his finger into an opponent's arse - an opponent marvellously named Toché.
Article continues
But while once he was Alfaro's apprentice, now nasty Navarro is the master - what with Alfaro growing as slow as a wheelie-trolley-wielding granny down a narrow supermarket aisle and increasingly finding himself left out in favour of also-pretty-rock, gay magazine cover star Aitor Ocio. Despite his as-yet unproven ability in the nifty finger-work stakes, Navarro has caught up with Dr Alfaro when it comes to the dark arts. Like throttling, booting up in the air and gauging out eyes. Or maiming people.
Which is what he did at Son Moix two weeks ago when he crashed into Real Mallorca's Juan Arango. The Venezuelan ended up with 47 stitches, a fractured cheek-bone and a couple of days in intensive care. If Mallorca's medical operation had not been so smooth, quick and successful Arango would have died, bleeding heavily on the pitch having swallowed his tongue, suffered convulsions and passed out. He remained unconscious for nearly three-quarters of an hour, while his wife, down at the dressing room door, wept. Live on telly.
Fortunately, Arango is going to be OK. One team-mate this weekend admitted, before his side all but confirmed relegation with a 4-0 stuffing at Atlético, that he "looks absolutely fine - you'd never believe that he had so many stitches, there's only really a little mark by his lip."
Which is a relief, but it has done little to take the pressure off Javi Navarro, now everyone's favourite evil enemy, the witch at the centre of the witchhunt. His challenge, insisted Arango's father, "was attempted homicide" and however much Navarro, who did admit to "not exactly going round handing out sweeties", protested his innocence it made no difference.
Mallorca president Mateo Almenay, describing the challenge as an "assault", demanded an "exemplary" ban and announced that the club would take legal action, and the press joined in. Spain's most respected columnist called Navarro a "savage", one radio station cunningly invented the world 'manymultireoffender' to describe him and his propensity for violent crimes, and for once front covers weren't graced with Madrid, Barça or Fernando bloody Alonso. Navarro hardly deserves the benefit of the doubt when he insists that he didn't mean it. But the challenge was far from clear-cut: with the ball in the middle, the two players ran towards each other and as they crashed into each other Navarro lifted his arm up in what looked like an attempt to protect himself. From the side angle it looks rather more like a forearm smash, it is true, but it remains unclear.
Certainly not clear enough to say with any real conviction that Navarro meant it - even though a conviction is exactly what much of the press, still piqued at recent, infamous battles between Madrid and Sevilla, are after. There is a willingness to get Navarro that was lacking (except in the agent who foolishly tried to start a fight with him) when Thomas Gravesen creamed Getafe's Gabi and brilliantly only half insisted: "I never try to hurt anyone, especially not on the pitch. (But whacking people in the street is fine)."
Navarro's was a different case, though: a player with a long, bloody record, playing for a club famed for being hard, he had nearly killed someone (although the effectiveness of a bad challenge shouldn't really be the measure of how bad it is). And he had done so at the worst possible time - just as international week began, leaving the press with hundreds of pages to fill and nothing else to talk about except how horrible he is.
Well, almost nothing: when Spain play there's always another chance to point out how indispensable Raúl is, a chance to run massive headlines declaring, "Raúl always returns" (which of course he does: for one night only, every six or seven months), or this column's favourite from the past week's 0-0 draw with Bosnia: "Raúl came on and we nearly won." Nearly. Just as the press nearly forgot about Navarro for a day.
Small wonder, then, that Pablo Alfaro moaned that "even the worst serial killers" - by which he presumably means those who kill a lot rather than the ones who are so bad they don't get beyond the first - "don't get treated like this". After two weeks of Sevilla-bashing, his president agreed, groaning: "Javi has been demonised: the only question mark left is whether he should be hanged, shot or stoned to death."
So, when Navarro, still awaiting his fate, went onto the pitch to face Numancia yesterday, wearing the captain's armband and cheered on by the Sevilla fans who carried banners supporting him, he knew he would be watched like a hawk. On the face of it, that wasn't a bad idea either - after all, but for a moment of Jesús Navas genius, the game itself was dire. Yet if anyone expected more action from the bad boy they went home sorely disappointed: the Sevilla centre-back failed to commit a single foul. All game long.
*If Navarro did nothing, Alfonso Pino Zamorano the referee who, much to the disgust of the Madrid press, only gave him a yellow in Mallorca and was also under close scrutiny had another exciting afternoon, gifting Barça a vital penalty from an outrageous dive. Now the whinging about scandalous refereeing, political conspiracies and robberies are coming from the other side. Just in time to crank up next weekend's Madrid-Barça clasico at the Bernabéu. Genius.
courtsey: Guardian Unlimited Football
Is this what Spanish football has become?
well, see what a change of scenery can do for a player. Forlan was forlorn at Man Utd. Hell, he couldn't hit the side of a barn...his game was so light that it wouldn't hit water if the boat sank. And here he is in Spain, scoring for fun. Anyway, I always felt that his style of play was never suited to Man Utd's, and if Ferguson had been able to see beyond simply spiting Steve McLaren (who had already lined up a deal for Forlan), then he would never have bought him, and I think he would have been a success at 'Boro
