something bothering about the legal system (4 Viewers)

[Azzurri7]

Yeah me too sometimes

 

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What concerns me about penalties of such severity is that there's always a chance a given justice system is going to get it wrong -- whether by lack of defensible information, intentional framing, political influence, corruption, or incompetence. The Illinois governor recently put a moratorium on the death penalty in the state because of the regular and repeated evidence of people who were wrongly convicted (and sentenced). To support sentences like that, you also have to accept that you or someone you care about should be subject to those same sentences on the limited but existent chance of a false conviction.

But of course, a six-time offender does seem to leave little room for doubt!

 

[Martin]

The underlying question inevitably is "do you believe in capital punishment?". Majed, I just don't find myself able to accept argumentation such as the financial benefit of executing people.. :undecide:

 

[Majed]

++ [ originally posted by vitoria_Ally ] ++

I wonder, what happen then with that criminal: is he free?? Let's say that he killed someone, the familiy did forgive him and... what's next?

Jail.

Surely those those type of punishement are very effective.
But even in case of murder, I dont support capital punishement like: head for head. But I support it, when we speak about people, who are not humans anymore: they are fvcking animals, so they should be shoot down like fvking animal, someone like Marc Dutroux. It's shame that we let such people live.

About adultery: I wonder, how many men would stay alive, if we have such punishement here
But I've heard/read, that you treat way different men and women, who commited the adultery: that punishement is weird itself for me, but whwn you treat them so differently, considering people's gender: not fair.

No. They are treated the same.

 

[Majed]

++ [ originally posted by azzurri7 ] ++
Death Penalty is kinda unfair, from what i know and what i saw on tv and other things, Like in Saudi Arabia, I don't think it's fair over there the Death Penalty.

Death penalty in Saudi is comminated for sex crimes, drug crimes, Production of Alcohol as well, mmm corruption also, what i hate also is that the Defendants can have NO defender lawyer, i dont think it's fair. And i velieve that the Executions always takes place in Stadium or something like this, infront of many people watching.

Anyhow Hope Majed wouldn't mind what i just said, No offence to Saudi's or to Majed, but my point was that this thing isn't fair.

no offense to me at all. It's your opinion.

Though, the Death Penalty is part of Islamic law.
Saudi Arabia follows it. Not exactly, but they still follow it.

 

[vitoria_Ally]

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++

No. They are treated the same.

Mbah! That's not what I've been told/read/heard thousands times.

 

[Desmond]

++ [ originally posted by Martin ] ++


What's wrong with lifetime imprisonment, Majed? I just don't believe killing people solves anything ever.

i bet the death penalty has dissuaded many a potential murderer/kidnapper.

 

[Majed]

++ [ originally posted by vitoria_Ally ] ++


Mbah! That's not what I've been told/read/heard thousands times.

I've never heard or witnessed otherwise though it's likely that some states may differentiate.

AFAIK, according to Islamic law though, no. Same punishment.

 

[Lilianna]

++ [ originally posted by vitoria_Ally ] ++


Mbah! That's not what I've been told/read/heard thousands times.

yeah because it's smg very....strange.
smg we are not familiar with.

it's strange anyway!

 

[Gandalf]

I'm still up for cutting their dicks.. (so, yeah Josh.. watch out.. )

about capital punishments.. I understand Majed's comments and I totally back him... murderers, rapists..etc are not like normal people.. think about the victims family, kids... think about the girl who got raped.. these people's life is dramatically changed after the crime.. and it leave a wound that won't heal.. for life....

 

[Lilianna]

oh i know!!!


but still it's very difficult for me to decide if i am for or against it!!

 

[Azzurri7]

This is what bother me

 

[Martin]

++ [ originally posted by Gandalf ] ++
I'm still up for cutting their dicks.. (so, yeah Josh.. watch out.. )

about capital punishments.. I understand Majed's comments and I totally back him... murderers, rapists..etc are not like normal people.. think about the victims family, kids... think about the girl who got raped.. these people's life is dramatically changed after the crime.. and it leave a wound that won't heal.. for life....

I could not disagree more, they are people too. And there are circumstances that put their actions into perspective. And that's to say nothing of whether those actions can be justified or not but killing these people solves nothing and certain doesn't make up for their crimes in any way.

As for castration for adultery, given the statistics for how frequent that is in the "West", that would render a large percentage of the population handicapped. What exactly would be the point of that?

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

"In order to judge the quality of a civilization, one must first judge the quality of its criminals."

- Feodor Mikhailovich Dostoyevsky

 

[Majed]

++ [ originally posted by Martin ] ++

As for castration for adultery, given the statistics for how frequent that is in the "West", that would render a large percentage of the population handicapped. What exactly would be the point of that?

Do you think maybe its frequency in the "West" is due to the lack of punishment for it?

Cheating on your husband/wife shouldn't be treated as a minor offense. These kinds of thigds break homes. Just because there are many people who would do that, it doesn't make it acceptable.

Keep in mind though.. I'm not calling for castration.

 

[vitoria_Ally]

++ [ originally posted by Martin ] ++


I could not disagree more, they are people too. And there are circumstances that put their actions into perspective. And that's to say nothing of whether those actions can be justified or not but killing these people solves nothing and certain doesn't make up for their crimes in any way.

As for castration for adultery, given the statistics for how frequent that is in the "West", that would render a large percentage of the population handicapped. What exactly would be the point of that?

Gandalf said: "murderers, rapists..etc are not like normal people..", it's hard to disagree with that. He didnt say: they are not people.

Justify?? And what on earth do you want to justify?? There is nothing to justify, all you can do is to find the explanation of the reason, why someone did it: then you got the anser about reasons, but never to justify, cause to justify means sth so different.

 

[vitoria_Ally]

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++
While most westerners think of Mideastern punishment as barbaric (they also dramatize it in movie so that any small offense deserves the death penalty , I think it solves a lot of problems.

Criminals know in advance their punishment.
You steel more than a specified about, you lose your right hand.
You steel less than that amount, you do some times and get lashed a few times.
You rape, you die.
you murder, you die.
you commit adultry, you die.

Of course this only happens when it's 100% proven by a confession, and a specified number of witnesses in each case. Also, the vicitim/victim's family has the right to forgive the offender so that he/she won't be punished.

I forgot to ask, but I'm curious about that... do you know, how often the victim/victims' family forgive the offender?
That's the theory, that they can forgive him... but how the reality of that looks like?

 

[Martin]

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++
Do you think maybe its frequency in the "West" is due to the lack of punishment for it?

Cheating on your husband/wife shouldn't be treated as a minor offense. These kinds of thigds break homes. Just because there are many people who would do that, it doesn't make it acceptable.

Keep in mind though.. I'm not calling for castration.

No, I think it's an indication of the level of social acceptance this behavior has in our region. I think it says something about the values that persist here and if people were outraged by it, it would be punished like any other crime. But as long as "we" don't feel it's a crime, there's no point in forcing that law upon us because we don't believe in it.

In other words, adultery isn't considered much of a problem.

++ [ originally posted by vitoria_Ally ] ++
Gandalf said: "murderers, rapists..etc are not like normal people..", it's hard to disagree with that. He didnt say: they are not people.

Fair enough, Gandalf's formulation wasn't bad.

++ [ originally posted by vitoria_Ally ] ++
Justify?? And what on earth do you want to justify?? There is nothing to justify, all you can do is to find the explanation of the reason, why someone did it: then you got the anser about reasons, but never to justify, cause to justify means sth so different.

I said:

++ [ originally posted by Martin ] ++
And that's to say nothing of whether those actions can be justified or not

which put into other words means that I take no stand on whether it can be justified or not. I leave that open.

 

[Majed]

++ [ originally posted by Martin ] ++


No, I think it's an indication of the level of social acceptance this behavior has in our region. I think it says something about the values that persist here and if people were outraged by it, it would be punished like any other crime. But as long as "we" don't feel it's a crime, there's no point in forcing that law upon us because we don't believe in it.

In other words, adultery isn't considered much of a problem.

Oh... fair enough. That leads to a good point about punishment in general. It should fit the crime and how much the society, in which that punishment is implemented, see that crime. (that sentance was quite "wordy" :stress: )


BTW, what's your stance on Adultery, if I may ask? how grave of a crime do you concider it for a man to cheat on his wife or vice versa?

 

[Martin]

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++
BTW, what's your stance on Adultery, if I may ask? how grave of a crime do you concider it for a man to cheat on his wife or vice versa?

Well I'm not one to encourage promiscuity at all, but I don't consider it a crime no. And I think that domain should be governed by the norms of society rather than law, I don't support an institutionalization of the population's sex life.

When it comes to the moral judgement, I think it's simple enough as long as everyone believes it will never happen to them but if you do find yourself in that situation, would you judge yourself as harshly? Besides, I think defining adultery as a crime is a lot more problematic than say murder, because the lines are blurred. For people who have affairs, it's not an instantaneous thing, there is a certain buildup there so at what point would you consider it a crime? I mean say that you're good friends with a woman who happens to marry your best friend, blah blah and it happens. At what point is it a crime? Is it a crime only when it's physical or is it already criminal before that? See my point?