So Who Should Play for the Azzurri? (29 Viewers)

[Bjerknes]

Awesome list, Alen.

So by some people's logic in this thread, the only teams that should win the Euros are either Romania or Holland, plus perhaps Czech Republic depending upon the Macedonian parent factor.

I'm happy with that.

 

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[Geof]

What's the point? If an individual holds the passport of a country, he should be able to play for their NT, that's all.

The problem is not who can play for the NT, but rather who can get a passport. I'm not a fan of players being naturalized just for the sake of playing for the NT. For example, Roger Guerreiro (Poland) was naturalized after Beenhakker (NT coach) insisted he would. This provoked quite a stir in Poland and apparently inside the NT too. But as long as there's no supranational commission for nationality (god forbid), the countries are sovereign and can hand passports to anyone they want. And it's certainly not FIFA who'll tell them what to do.

 

[Ghost]

Last time I checked, Canada wasn't a very good footballing nation.

I'm Italian. I was born in Turin. Go eat a cheese steak or something. You're obese country is filled with them.

EDIT: Andy, I'm glad you can read. You clearly missed the post where he said every Dutch player was born in Holland. Another reason why the american education system has failed.

 

[Bjerknes]

The name Brandon sounds more Canadian than Italian to me.

 

[Alen]

EDIT: Andy, I'm glad you can read. You clearly missed the post where he said every Dutch player was born in Holland. Another reason why the american education system has failed.

I don't understand this.
It's perhaps because it's late and i'm sleepy.

 

[Vinman]

Here is the list Vinman

Switzerland :
1. Eldin Jakupovic (born in Bosnia to Bosnian parents. Moved to Switzerland during the war in Yugoslavia)
2. Johan Djourou (born in Ivory Coast to Ivorian parents. His father's first wife was Swiss and she adopted him )
3. Valon Behrami (born in Kosovo to Albanian parents)
4. Gelson Fernandes (born in Africa, african parents)
5. Johan Vonlanthen (born in Colombia to Colombian parents. His stepfather was Swiss and that's how he got the passport)
6. Hakan Yakin, Gokhan Inler and Eren Derdiyok have Turkish parents but they're born in Switzerland, so they're ok

Portugal :
1. Deco (Brasilian with Portuguese passport)
2. Pepe (Brasilian with Portuguese passport)
3. Jose Bosingwa (Born in Congo. Portuguese father, Congolese mother)
4. Nani (born in Cape Verde to African parents who later emigrated to Portugal)

Czech Republic
- all of them born in the Czech Republic to Czech parents. Only Jankulovski has Macedonian parents but he's also born in Czech Rep.

Turkey
1. Kazim Richards (born and raised in England. Antiguan father, Turkish mother)
2. Hakan Balta (born and raised in Germany. Turkish parents)
3. Hamit Altintop (born and raised in Germany. He never lived or played football in Turkey. Turkish parents)
4. Mehmet Aurelio (Brasilian with Turkish passport)
5. Mevlüt Erdinç (born in France and lived all his life there. Turkish parents)

Germany:
1. Lucas Podolski (born in Poland to Polish parents)
2. Miroslav Klose (born in Poland to Polish parents)
3. Piotr Trochowski (born in Poland to Polish parents)
4. Kevin Kuranyi (born in Brasil, Panamian mother, his father is half Hungarian half German)
5. Oliver Neuville (born in Switzerland to German father and Italian mother)
6. Odonkor and Gomez are born in Germany in mixed families (Odonkor's father was Ghanian while Gomez has a Spanish father)

Croatia :
1. Josip Simunic (born and raised in Australia to Croatian parents)
2. Niko Kovac (born and raised in Germany to Croatian parents)
3. Robert Kovac (born and raised in Germany to Croatian parents)
4. Ivan Rakitic (born and raised in Switzerland to Croatian parents)
5. Ivan Klasnic (born and raised in Germany to Croatian parents)
6. Corluka and Petric were born in Bosnia to Croatian parents but back then Bosnia and Croatia were parts of the same country, Yugoslavia.

Austria:
1. Ronald Gercaliu (born and raised in Albania to Albanian parents)
2. György Garics (born and raised in Hungary to Hungarian parents)
3. Ivica Vastic (born and raised in Croatia to Croatian parents)
4. Martin Harnik (born and raised in Germany to German mother and Austrian father)
5. Ümit Korkmaz and Ramazan Özcan were born in Austria to Turkish parents while Andreas Ivanschitz was born in Austria to Croatian parents.

Poland:
1. Roger Guerreiro (Brasilian with Polish passport)

Italy:
1. Mauro Camoranesi (Argentinian with Italian passport)

Netherlands:
- all of them born in the Netherlands

France:
1. Steve Mandanda (born in Congo to Congolese parents)
2. Jean-Alain Boumsong (born in Cameroon to Cameroonian parents)
3. Patrice Evra (born in Senegal to Senegalese parents)
4. Lilian Thuram (born in Guadaloupe on the Caribbean sea)
5. Patrick Vieira (born in Senegal to Senegalese parents)
6. Claude Makelele (born in Congo to Congolese parents)
7. Florent Malouda (born in Guiana to Guianian parents)

Romania:
-All of them born in Romania.

Greece:
1. Loukas Vyntra (born in Czech republic. Czech father, Greek mother)

Sweden:
1. Tobias Linderoth (born in France to Swedish parents)
2. Majstorovic and Ibrahimovic are born in Sweden but their Balkan background is obvious

Spain:
1. Marcos Senna (Brasilian with Spanish passport)

Russia:
1. Sergei Semak (born in Ukraine, back then part of the Soviet Union, to Ukrainian-Russian family)

Andy, its time to start picking on "ze Germans"


now, where is Burke when you need him ??

 

[swag]

Last time I checked, Canada wasn't a very good footballing nation.

Here is the list Vinman

That list kicks ass, Alen. Thanks! (This will have to do, because I cannot add more rep to you at the moment. )

What's the point? If an individual holds the passport of a country, he should be able to play for their NT, that's all.

The problem is not who can play for the NT, but rather who can get a passport.

Exactly! If you become a citizen, can die for that country when called up in war, you better as hell get the opportunity to put on their frikkin' soccer jersey.

I'm Italian. I was born in Turin.

What does your passport say? I am not trying to be snarky. I only ask because I know a lot of naturalized Canadians who say they're something else, when they are living proof of citizenship changes -- and why they should be considered Canadians.

Where you're born doesn't mean dog poop to me. Tommy Lee of Motley Crue would be Greek by those standards. The question is rather what passport are you carrying, and to whom are you primarily paying your taxes? And when World War III breaks out, what cemetery are you going to be buried in for who?

 

[Bjerknes]

I don't understand this.
It's perhaps because it's late and i'm sleepy.

I didn't understand it either.

He must have been too busy looking for personal attacks against my nationality.

 

[Bjerknes]

Andy, its time to start picking on "ze Germans"


now, where is Burke when you need him ??

But the Germans and German fans are more accepting to other players than your fans, and they aren't hypocritical about it either. That's why I don't criticize them.

While on the other hand, I come here and see a lot of hypocritical nonsense regarding players, some of which is actually blatant racism on the behalf of Azzurri fans, some who aren't anything near Italian! So that's why I blast a lot of Azzurri fans.

 

[Alen]

Andy, its time to start picking on "ze Germans"

I think he already started making fun of them few days ago when the two Polish guys destroyed Poland and gave the 3 pts to Germany

now, where is Burke when you need him ??

 

[Bjerknes]

That list kicks ass, Alen. Thanks! (This will have to do, because I cannot add more rep to you at the moment. )

Yeah, thanks Alen.

What does your passport say? I am not trying to be snarky. I only ask because I know a lot of naturalized Canadians who say they're something else, when they are living proof of citizenship changes -- and why they should be considered Canadians.

Where you're born doesn't mean dog poop to me. Tommy Lee of Motley Crue would be Greek by those standards. The question is rather what passport are you carrying, and to whom are you primarily paying your taxes? And when World War III breaks out, what cemetery are you going to be buried in for who?

 

[Bjerknes]

Oh and I can't make fun of Burke related to that issue because he agrees with me - passports are all that matter, not blood.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

It all depends on the individual's case. In Amauri's case, as with Camo, they simply aren't Italian. Not "genetically", socially or culturally. They weren't born there and their parents aren't from there, so they didn't grow up in an Italian household. They didn't move there at a young age either and grow up there.

Not that I care, but it's just principles. I like Camo on the Italian NT, just like I like Birchall on the T&T team (his mom is from T&T anyway). There are cases like Balotelli and Santacroce, however. Balotelli, born in Italy, raised in Italy, Ghanaian parents and "blood"*, he is Italian. It's a shame he hasn't got citizenship as yet though. Santacroce was born in Brazil, I think, and went to Italy at a young age and grew up there. He isn't an Italian national, but I think he can claim to play for the Italian NT.

It just depends on the situation. I can understand Italians not wanting players with no real Italian connection besides grandma wanting to play for the NT for career purposes. Even me, i could claim Italian ancestry, but I am not an Italian and I would only play for one team, T&T.

*obviously blood does not refer to the same blood that chimps have and is a reference not to be taken literally

 

[Alen]

For example, Roger Guerreiro (Poland) was naturalized after Beenhakker (NT coach) insisted he would. This provoked quite a stir in Poland and apparently inside the NT too. .

In refference to Guerreiro's case, i can only mention what was/is happening with Macedonian basketball team and few more NT's in Europe.
During the last 5 years they had some American basketball players playing for their NT. Most of these guys were african americans and they obviously had nothing to do with the Balkan.
This isn't so strange but it becomes strange when you hear how the first time in their lives these guys passed the Macedonian border was when they went there to pick up their passports, 2 or 3 days before Macedonia played a qualification match for the Euros.

Basially what happened is this :
Macedonian NT representative saw the American guy playing basketball in some european league, he asks him if he's interested to play for the Macedonian NT, the American guy hears the name Macedonia for the first time in his life but still says yes, after 2 days he gets his new passport and after 5 days he starts playing for Macedonia.

 

[swag]

It all depends on the individual's case. In Amauri's case, as with Camo, they simply aren't Italian.

Sorry, bud. You carry the citizenship, you're Italian. If Italy gets involved in a war and calls up you as one of its citizens, you're Italian.

If Italians don't like it, then forbid any form of immigration. Make it illegal to immigrate there.

The rest is wanker bullcrap. Otherwise, it's a completely bogus double-standard.

 

[Martin]

But the Germans and German fans are more accepting to other players than your fans, and they aren't hypocritical about it either. That's why I don't criticize them.

While on the other hand, I come here and see a lot of hypocritical nonsense regarding players, some of which is actually blatant racism on the behalf of Azzurri fans, some who aren't anything near Italian! So that's why I blast a lot of Azzurri fans.

The Germans have a little history with this and I think they are behaving well. First I recall was Asamoah. Then there was Kurányi and Odonkor. Perhaps others I don't know about. So given these somewhat "exotic" imports someone who's born or whose parents are from a neighboring country isn't going to cause much of a stir. After all, Poland and Germany have always had a close relationship and before the EU expansion made immigration easy, lots of Polish people would commute to Germany for work, mostly working black.

 

[Bjerknes]

The Germans have a little history with this and I think they are behaving well. First I recall was Asamoah. Then there was Kurányi and Odonkor. Perhaps others I don't know about. So given these somewhat "exotic" imports someone who's born or whose parents are from a neighboring country isn't going to cause much of a stir. After all, Poland and Germany have always had a close relationship and before the EU expansion made immigration easy, lots of Polish people would commute to Germany for work, mostly working black.

I think Germans are more accepting of other people because of their history. After the Holocaust, they would naturally become more accommodating towards anybody that happens to be "different." I mean, they even have laws that forbid you to joke about the Holocaust.

 

[Geof]

Basially what happened is this :
Macedonian NT representative saw the American guy playing basketball in some european league, he asks him if he's interested to play for the Macedonian NT, the American guy hears the name Macedonia for the first time in his life but still says yes, after 2 days he gets his new passport and after 5 days he starts playing for Macedonia.

Well that sucks. But what you gonna do? IMO it's a personal and national matter. Personal as in: in an ideal world, it should be an honour to play for (your) NT, not a career move; and national as it's a matter of the laws of the country to set the rules of naturalization.

I think Germans are more accepting of other people because of their history. After the Holocaust, they would naturally become more accommodating towards anybody that happens to be "different." I mean, they even have laws that forbid you to joke about the Holocaust.

Actually, Germany has one of Europe's strictest Nationality Laws. It used to be based on Ius Saguinis, meaning that you could only get the German nationality if one of your parents was German. This resulted in big problems as loads of people, mostly Turks, born and raised in Germany did not have the citizenship (hence IMO, cases like Altintop). This means that Odonkor, Gomez and Kuranyi were fully entitled to a German passport.

Children born in Germany after 2000 from non-German parents can now qualify for German nationality if one of the parents holds a residence permit and has been residing in Germany for 8 years.

You can also be naturalized if you are a resident since at least 8 years, self-supporting and speak German (Klose, Podolski, Trochowski I guess)

In comparison, the naturalization period in Belgium is only three years, and if in addition to that you have an unlimited residence permit, the naturalization is done by declaration (can't be refused).


As long as the National rules are respected, I have no problem with people with funny names playing for your NT. But seeing cases like Alen mentioned really gets on my nerves.

 

[swag]

Oh, those cases do get on my nerves too. But if someone can be a citizen of a certain country but be barred from playing professional football for that country, they are either a citizen or they are a second-class citizen.

Anyone who claims that "anyone playing for the Italian NT must be born in Italy", etc., is essentially advocating a form of second-class citizenship. They want to institutionalize some rights for some citizens and to block other citizens from claiming those same rights. It's basically saying, "You're a citizen, but you're really not" to some people and not others. Forza Italia indeed.

That gets on my nerves just as much.

 

[Geof]

Btw, my small research here learned me that Italy has a special rule for U.S. citizens, Argentinians, Canadians, Australians, Brazilians, Venezuelans or others who are descended from an ancestor (parent, grandparent, great-grandparent, etc.) born in Italy. They may have a claim to Italian citizenship by descent if the ancestor died after 17th of March 1861.

I'm sure Amauri found himself a grand-grand-grand father, who was a Calabresi pizzaiolo who died in peace in 1862.