[Serie A] Milan-Juventus (34 Viewers)

[sateeh]

++ [ originally posted by ZhiXin ] ++


Sorry to say that, if we don't change the starting lineup at times and bring on the in-form players, it definitely will affect our chances of the scedutto and the CL.

the only criticism to the starting line up in my view was not putting mutu in there, and kovac.

But we needed thuram's experience there, and he played very well and did his job.
I didnt think that mutu would be there, cuz capello went for experience over formm.AT least neddy should've been subbed not camo.But cap likes to see mutu on the right i guess.
If ur talking abt alex, although his form is better than zlatan overall i dont think he played well in the last two games.Although i agree we needed him there.Simply for his presence amongst our players as well as the milan players.
They wouldn't have pushed him around like they did to zlatan they have more respect to the man.Ibra on the other hand nobody has respect for.

If u look at it form wise, ibra would take the upper hand there.

 

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[Cronios]

++ [ originally posted by sateeh ] ++


first of all when critisizing anyone try to limit the use of names as u can.. i know everybody is pissed.

U can't talk abt the lineup, it was the best for the situation at the time.
Plzzz u can't talk Abt U or anyone here being a better coach than capello.
Even if alex and mutu were there or anyone else for that matter...
What would u do if u got an early goal from a deflection, while the team was just starting to get into the game.It just throws away any plans u have.
Ppl were talking abt The third keeper(bonnofeio), would've been a better choice than chimenti, I DONT THINK SO.
So we were going to be 2-0 down by half time instead of 3-0, i know its a big difference but it didnt take ancelotti much to close down the game, and play the usual milan game of passing and not giving the ball away.

I know capello made some mistakes but u can't just put everything on him.The early goal just demorolized the team as a whole.
Milan only brushed us away in the 2nd half , when realistically the chance had already passed away.
Substitutions were wrong i know, its his mistake..i agree with that.
But u can't jsut pin the whole loss on capello himself.

Anyway tomorrow's another day....I was watching the ManU game before the juve game, and after the juve game...my brother(a Juventini) said the Red devils of england lost and the Red Devils of Italy won.

What is going to be the case against the Red Devils of Germany.

IMO the line up was far from the best for the occasion,
i and many other juventini have located some problems in our teams play,
i disagree with Cap choices even if we win because i know there are going to be moments and games like that,when Juve have to be more powerfull and cunning than Cap set it to be and we wont be able to deliver more,
this is what we all want to avoid, the defeat,i dont in wins no matter what and i dont have blind trust in noone coach or player,
i want the best for juve and i feel there are choices that doesnt lead us there,in games when our weakness our more obvius Cap cant deliver,so us Chimenti,i didnt wait to see this match to come up with this ideas,but i waited this match to confirm them,i believe the flat 4-4-2 system cant work with a keeper as Chimenti defensively,
either with the forms of Neddy and Vieira offensively,
that was pretty obvius for me,
this years we have the material to come up with an alternative formation esp when we have so many injuries in key positions,
IMO Cap started an already doomed formation and even when he realised that this team couldnt win this game still didnt react fast and let the situation become irriversable,
i watched Ancelotti helped by lady luck to take advantage of those known weakness and Cap was once again helpless,
we never had such a strong team the last years and we were more competitive in that kind of derbies,its clearly because of the tactics,i predicted the way we play and loose and Cap couldnt?
what measures did he take to strenghen our flaws?
is this the first time this happen?
dont we have the means to react?
i doubt that...

 

[ZhiXin]

++ [ originally posted by sateeh ] ++

the only criticism to the starting line up in my view was not putting mutu in there, and kovac.

But we needed thuram's experience there, and he played very well and did his job.
I didnt think that mutu would be there, cuz capello went for experience over formm.AT least neddy should've been subbed not camo.But cap likes to see mutu on the right i guess.
If ur talking abt alex, although his form is better than zlatan overall i dont think he played well in the last two games.Although i agree we needed him there.Simply for his presence amongst our players as well as the milan players.
They wouldn't have pushed him around like they did to zlatan they have more respect to the man.Ibra on the other hand nobody has respect for.

If u look at it form wise, ibra would take the upper hand there.

I have no problems with Thuram playing. In fact I would select him in front of Kovac too, with Kovac as backup.

The problem is even if both Mutu and DP were to play, 1 of them would be not in their natural position. Mutu should have been put right in the start of the game instead of an off-form Nedved. And Mutu should be put behind the strikers, not a left/right midfielder in a flat 4-4-2. When DP is introduced, he is put as a LM instead of introducing a trident.

About DP and Zlatan, I believe I will still pick Zlatan, but he makes the same mistakes again, trying to dribble past experienced players like Stam, Nesta and worse of all, the captain Maldini and consequently losing the ball. I still think that DP should play the Milan game as he will give Stam a hard time. I can't believe that Capello didn't notice that Stam is the weakest link.

Experience over form?
ok I see what u mean, but I find it contradicting.
Since Capello prefers Nedved over Mutu due to his experience in Juventus, but he prefers Zlatan over DP, whose experience is much greater than the Swede? That's weird.

 

[ZhiXin]

Chimenti apologises to Juve Sunday 30 October, 2005

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Antonio Chimenti has apologised for his error in the defeat to Milan, while Carlo Ancelotti, Emerson and Kaka also gave their verdict on the San Siro clash.

“Andrea Pirlo’s goal went in because of my mistake, even if the ball took a strange swerve as it came round the wall,” conceded the Juventus goalkeeper after last night’s 3-1 defeat. “Milan punished us in the first half, but we have the right potential to get out of this situation.”


Chimenti is Juve’s third choice goalkeeper and started due to Gianluigi Buffon’s shoulder injury and a bout of tonsillitis for Christian Abbiati.


“The Rossoneri were lucky because they scored against the run of play,” explained his team-mate Emerson. “We tried to get back into the swing of things, but their second goal came almost immediately and it’s not easy to recover against such a strong side.”


This result has closed the gap at the top of the table to just two points and the Scudetto race has been blown wide open.


“Milan were better than Juventus on the night, it really is as simple as that,” said Kaka, who netted the second goal on Saturday evening. “It was a great feeling on a wonderful night for the club. We always maintained the same approach, both on the field and off it.”


Carlo Ancelotti confirmed the title is within their grasp after notching up seven consecutive Serie A victories.


“Now we are right back in the Scudetto race and we were in better condition than Juve going into this game,” assured the Coach. “To take the lead so early was helpful, but the difference was made by our aggressive temperament.”


The Bianconeri had won all nine of its opening ties, but Ancelotti found the tactical key to unpick that lock.


“Gennaro Gattuso was extraordinary, as was Alberto Gilardino and Pippo Inzaghi. The defenders marked Zlatan Ibrahimovic tightly and that is how you must face Juventus.”

source: channel4.com

Sad to say, Ancoletti has prepared himself well for the game. It is pathetic that even Ancoletti is able to outwit Capello in this game. Such a shame.

 

[sateeh]

++ [ originally posted by Cronios ] ++



IMO the line up was far the best for the occasion,
i and many other juventini have located some problems in our teams play,
i disagree with Cap choices even if we win because o know there are going to be moments and games like that,when Juve have to be more powerfull and cunning than Cap set it to be and we wont be able to deliver more,
this is what we all want to avoid, the defeat,i dont in wins no matter what and i dont have blind trust in noone coach or player,
i want the best for juve and i feel there are choices that doesnt lead us there,in games when our weakness our more obvius Cap cant deliver,so us Chimenti,i didnt wait to see this match to come up with this ideas,but i waited this match to confirm them,i believe the flat 4-4-2 system cant work with a keeper as Chimenti defensively,
either with the forms of Neddy and Vieira offensively,
that was pretty obvius for me,
this years we have the material to come up with an alternative formation esp when we have so many injuries in key positions,
IMO Cap started an already doomed formation and even when he realised that this team couldnt win this game still didnt react fast and let the situation become irriversable,
i watched Ancelotti helped by lady luck to take advantage of those known weakness and Cap was once again helpless,
we never had such a strong team the last years and we were more competitive in that kind of derbies,its clearly because of the tactics,i predicted the way we play and loose and Cap couldnt?
what measures did he take to strenghen our flaws?
is this the first time this happen?
dont we have the means to react?
i doubt that...

Everone here just wants the best for the team.

Abt the match, and the stuff u talked abt.

Going into a game like this, with a three man offensive side is just suicide.U saw how the milan midfield played, and they own ower midfield. Playing with three or 5 would jsut be unbalanced. I know that players like alex & mutu would've helped the defense and the midfield but then whoever was going to be upfront was jsut going to be lost between the milan defenders(who were great by the way) and we would be under constant pressure from the milan guys , and would have to revert to the long balls.Eventually we would just be outscored again.
4-3-3 is a very risky formation, and as it wasnt used that much this season, u just cant expect the guy to use it in this kind of game.I know it should've been tested before, but the 4-4-2 was working and if ain't broken why fix it.

Abt chimenti, u just cant change the whole system jsut cause the keeper was changed.Cap had to work with what he had.Its a shame that our 2nd keeper is as poor as he is, but again i dont blame him, he didnt play that much.

U just cant blame tactics cuz in the past we were more competitave in derbies.I didnt see anyone say anything when we just brushed away Inter in their prime(begining of this season) the same way Milan beat us last nite.
The team was complacent and its partly cap's mistake and the players take some of the blame.

u predicted a loss right? did u know that the only goal in the game thats well worked would be ours?Three lucky goals.I wont deny the Milanista faithful that their players played an excellent game.But the goals didnt come cuz of the way they played.U just can't blame the tactics cap had, its the mentality that the players approached the game.It wasn't good enough.

I have to agree abt the improvement abt the flaws, he didnt do that much.The only thing he tried to do is trying out chiellini as well as mutu more and more.

This is a great game, if u doubt it from bouncing back then u dont know this team very well. If its not the next game then its the game after.There is no crisis here.

 

[Vinman]

++ [ originally posted by sateeh ] ++


noneed to use those words "crap" or watever, its just childish.

abt ur sig...i have to agree, even if the coach puts the best formation or tactic .. how do u know that the players did wat he wanted? or the players played to their full capacity ???
it just doesnt make sense.. i have to disagree with u there.

........................................


I found out 2 very important facts, watching the total and complete embarassment of our Juventus team last night :

1) CRAPELLO is NOT, and I repeat NOT a world- class coach


2) Chimenti is not a goalkeeper

I dont want to copy most of what Andy and Denco posted...but their right

CRAPELLO's formations, substitutions, and tactics will only work against teams like Ascoli, Chievo, and the like. Our "record" is a bit deceiving, because we won those games on our players talent alone, compared to the inferior sides we have played (I dont count Inter as a very good side now...their problems are worse than ours.....), and even then, we have looked mediocre in these games...doing just enough for the win

This is the second time this season we have faced a side as good as ours, and for the second time, it was almost as if boys were playing against men.

I cant believe some ppl here actually thought we played well...are you fvcking kidding me ??? Milan ruled the game, and made us look foolish !!!!

CRAP'S ineptness, failure to adjust, and poor substitutions should be grounds enough to send him packing !!! Then the comments after the game "we had no luck" ..IS HE FOR REAL ????!!!!

More like "we had no skill....."


All the "Zlatan-worshippers" out there, I have 1 question for you......

Where was your boy yesterday ???????

I pick him out because too many ppl here think he's the best player to come to Juventus since Baggio.... Ibrahima***** hasnt shown up this season !!!!

Chimenti should flip a coin with Blasi to see who should drive the team bus

Trez was invisible up until he scored

Nedved tried....but it wasnt good enough

Camo- should have stayed in...

Zamby- WHY did CRAP have him on the right ??????

Pessotto- why did CRAP have him on the left ???

both were played out of position...and it showed


Mutu and DP- played out of position

Emerson and Viera- Gattuso showed them both up.....



The CRAPELLO circus continues on tuesday, where any football fan with a sliver of knowledge knows we are in for another beating

PESSIMIST PESSIMIST PESSIMIST

get used to it snoop....

and if you cant handle the truth, dont read my posts !!!!

 

[sateeh]

++ [ originally posted by ZhiXin ] ++

The problem is even if both Mutu and DP were to play, 1 of them would be not in their natural position. Mutu should have been put right in the start of the game instead of an off-form Nedved. And Mutu should be put behind the strikers, not a left/right midfielder in a flat 4-4-2. When DP is introduced, he is put as a LM instead of introducing a trident.

u r talking abt introducing a whole new system here.This takes more time.Very interesting system though, i dont think that cap would use, however i would like to see how it works

ok I see what u mean, but I find it contradicting.
Since Capello prefers Nedved over Mutu due to his experience in Juventus, but he prefers Zlatan over DP, whose experience is much greater than the Swede? That's weird.

i know its very weird, thats a thing i dont understand.But i guess he thinks we need some experience in midfield more than it in attack.Thats the only thing i could think of at the moment.
Alex would've cause problem for stam, and he did when he did enter the field.

 

[Tom]

Again, whats with the current trend to be so disrespectful to our players and staff. Can't people criticise/get their point across without resorting to crapello, ibrahimoshit etc?

 

[sateeh]

++ [ originally posted by Vinman ] ++



........................................


I found out 2 very important facts, watching the total and complete embarassment of our Juventus team last night :

1) CRAPELLO is NOT, and I repeat NOT a world- class coach


2) Chimenti is not a goalkeeper

I dont want to copy most of what Andy and Denco posted...but their right

CRAPELLO's formations, substitutions, and tactics will only work against teams like Ascoli, Chievo, and the like. Our "record" is a bit deceiving, because we won those games on our players talent alone, compared to the inferior sides we have played (I dont count Inter as a very good side now...their problems are worse than ours.....), and even then, we have looked mediocre in these games...doing just enough for the win

This is the second time this season we have faced a side as good as ours, and for the second time, it was almost as if boys were playing against men.

I cant believe some ppl here actually thought we played well...are you fvcking kidding me ??? Milan ruled the game, and made us look foolish !!!!

CRAP'S ineptness, failure to adjust, and poor substitutions should be grounds enough to send him packing !!! Then the comments after the game "we had no luck" ..IS HE FOR REAL ????!!!!

More like "we had no skill....."


All the "Zlatan-worshippers" out there, I have 1 question for you......

Where was your boy yesterday ???????

I pick him out because too many ppl here think he's the best player to come to Juventus since Baggio.... Ibrahima***** hasnt shown up this season !!!!

Chimenti should flip a coin with Blasi to see who should drive the team bus

Trez was invisible up until he scored

Nedved tried....but it wasnt good enough

Camo- should have stayed in...

Zamby- WHY did CRAP have him on the right ??????

Pessotto- why did CRAP have him on the left ???

both were played out of position...and it showed


Mutu and DP- played out of position

Emerson and Viera- Gattuso showed them both up.....



The CRAPELLO circus continues on tuesday, where any football fan with a sliver of knowledge knows we are in for another beating





get used to it snoop....

and if you cant handle the truth, dont read my posts !!!!

obviously u r very pissed.

many ppl talked abt putting zambo on the right cuz we need him to limit sergihno &seedorf partnership and pessoto couldn't handle their speed or strength.And he would have more space to operate since serginho likes to go ahead and attack.

Trezi actually wasn't invisble and if expect to do more than the goal than ur dreaming.He is one of few that we actually chasing the ball and trying to produce something.

Calling capello names isnt helping anyone and its jsut making u look like a child.

He is a world class coach whether u like it or not.His recrod speaks for itself.
And if u see everything he does only works on the little teams, than so be it u wont win the Serie A only by winning against the big ones.
This isnt fair.

Lady luck played its part in the game, am not saying that cap couldnt play his cards better, but he isnt the only to blame.Ur just looking for a scapegoat.

 

[sateeh]

++ [ originally posted by Tom ] ++
Again, whats with the current trend to be so disrespectful to our players and staff. Can't people criticise/get their point across without resorting to crapello, ibrahinmoshit etc?

exactly its just childish...if anybody is pissed , cool offf first ...before stating ur argument

 

[ZhiXin]

++ [ originally posted by sateeh ] ++

u r talking abt introducing a whole new system here.This takes more time.Very interesting system though, i dont think that cap would use, however i would like to see how it works

i know its very weird, thats a thing i dont understand.But i guess he thinks we need some experience in midfield more than it in attack.Thats the only thing i could think of at the moment.
Alex would've cause problem for stam, and he did when he did enter the field.

In the last season, when Nedved is injured, we introduce a trident iimmediately, which worked wonders for us since we plicked up victories. To me this is a rushed solution and basically we ran out of depth, please prove me wrong when I say this. And Capello has a whole lot of time in the pre-season friendlies, and in same Serie A matches against weak games to try this, yet for some weird reason he never tried the system as mentioned. Who knows that it may yield positive results?

I will rest this case.

 

[ZhiXin]

++ [ originally posted by Tom ] ++
Again, whats with the current trend to be so disrespectful to our players and staff. Can't people criticise/get their point across without resorting to crapello, ibrahimoshit etc?

Sad to say Tom, the standards of the forum r deteriorating

 

[Esteban]

It was a typical 0-0 encounter if it wasn't for two coincidences - a deflected shot and some pinball after a corner - and we having to play our third choice between the posts. Milan didn't play one bit better than us. It was a lame performance from both parties, whereas Gilardino and Inzaghi were not involved in the play more than Ibrahimovic or Trezeguet.

Stop crying, shit happen.


GIGI, WHERE ARE YOU?!

 

[forzamilanello]

wow, as u may have noticed i am a milan fan.

the reason i came here was to say what u guys are sayin about this match..it makes me sick to here what some of u had to say. capello didnt do nothing wrong..its simple, ancelotti setup a tactical game to shut your team down

ppl are crying about how gigi buffon wouldve done nething different, my ass he would have, his ass wouldve been in net not on the field to make something happen. everyplayer on that field got shutdown by either seedorf, pirlo, gattuso, maldini, nesta, serginho etc. AND..for u idiotz saying our goals were lucky u can eat these balls, ur team didnt do jack with the ball while we did..
juve didnt do nothing wrong... its just that they messed with the wrong team and the wrong time, we were hungry for this

now go ahead talk shiit to me or whatever, but u kno inside im right

 

[Azzurri7]

++ [ originally posted by Stuart ] ++


You addressed another point that I wanted to talk about. Why is it that every f-ing time we lose Capello blames it on bad luck?

and the funny thing is that he saw a great Juve...

 

[Azzurri7]

++ [ originally posted by Luciano_Moggi ] ++


I totally agree...

"Variety is the way to have fun"-said by a Chinese wiseman who's yet to be born...

:LOL:

 

[Juve_Kosova]

++ [ originally posted by Jeeks ] ++
Did Milan play better than us? No.
Did they take advantage of the situations they got? Yes.
Does the resulst show who was the better team on the pitch? No.

Who came in with a better mentality? Definitely Milan, and the blame goes to the coach. Desmond my pal, Ancelotti guessed it right this time. Not with the better formation or choice of players, but with the build up before the game.

Capello included his favourite formation that is good for nothing and showed the whole world that his stubornness lead us nowhere. He had Chimenti as a goalkeeper and he was the main reason we got Abiatti, but trying a new French keeper is a NO-NO for our coward coach.

Why do we buy players like Kovac and Balzaretti? Oh yea, to keep them on the bench, now I got it, we like to show off. Games, not numbers showed that Kovac is in better form than Thuram, yet Mr. Fabio prefers the French over Croats for their reputation maybe.

Alright, Vieira is back, how happy we are and we come in the game with our best midfield. Yes our best midfield consists of a player who is called Pavel Nedved who really want to win, who relaly tries hard but in reality he can't. He simply can't. Why does he surprise us by playing each and every game? Ask Mr. Fabio who has the best decisions every game.

Zlatan was injured last week and Del Piero was given the nod to play against Sampdoria on Wednesday just to show his worth and how much he can add to the team. What happens against a better teamk, Zlatan had to replace our most on-form forward just to prove to everyone that he's always right. Right, keep Mutu on the bench and play with Nedvend and right substitute Camoranesi and keep Zlatan trying on the field.

I heard experts, reporters, fans and members say that Juventus learned from the game against Bayern that this stubornness leads nowhere and things will change afterwards. Was winning against Lecce and Sampdoria really a change and showed how much we changed? NO, it wasn't it was just an experience tha tmade our beloved coach more convinced of his idiocity.

Four days are away from another experiment and four days are away from Capello being proven wrong another time. My expectations to the game in Delle Alpi against Magath's men is another loss if we come in on the field with the same mentality and the same formation.

Great post !

 

[ZhiXin]

++ [ originally posted by forzamilanello ] ++
wow, as u may have noticed i am a milan fan.

the reason i came here was to say what u guys are sayin about this match..it makes me sick to here what some of u had to say. capello didnt do nothing wrong..its simple, ancelotti setup a tactical game to shut your team down

ppl are crying about how gigi buffon wouldve done nething different, my ass he would have, his ass wouldve been in net not on the field to make something happen. everyplayer on that field got shutdown by either seedorf, pirlo, gattuso, maldini, nesta, serginho etc. AND..for u idiotz saying our goals were lucky u can eat these balls, ur team didnt do jack with the ball while we did..
juve didnt do nothing wrong... its just that they messed with the wrong team and the wrong time, we were hungry for this

now go ahead talk shiit to me or whatever, but u kno inside im right

Welcome to the forums

 

[Vinman]

obviously u r very pissed.

really ??? How could you tell ????!!!

Calling capello names isnt helping anyone and its jsut making u look like a child.

I tell it like it is...and if you wanna cry about it, maybe YOU should grow up !!!

He is a world class coach whether u like it or not.His recrod speaks for itself.
And if u see everything he does only works on the little teams, than so be it u wont win the Serie A only by winning against the big ones.
This isnt fair.

Another CRAPELLO fan, blinded by love...

Lady luck played its part in the game, am not saying that cap couldnt play his cards better, but he isnt the only to blame.Ur just looking for a scapegoat

.

you may remove your lips from CRAPELLO'S ass....

luck had nothing to do with the beating we took, it was CRAP's tactics, formation and substitutions

He IS to blame !!!!

 

[Azzurri7]

++ [ originally posted by snoop ] ++


But I don't blame you,we have some posters like that,no need to name.they know who they are.and there are others who say Forza Del Piero before every match we play,so that he perform good

you're trying too hard to look smart.