[Serie A] Messina - Juventus (14 Viewers)

[Seven]

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++

Why? Because they have Beckham?

No. Because frankly, we suck. The game against Udinese was a good game, but it took us way too long to reach that level.

And btw gray, I've about had enough of your moronic attitude. I don't know why you feel you're so much better than the rest of us, but I really don't need some religion fanatic to look down on me. **** you

 

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[gray]

when did I ever act like that? Just because I don't agree with your opinions doesn't mean I think I'm better than you. Try not to take disagreements so personally, this is an internet forum and we're here to share our opinions.

What's with the personal attack btw? What has my religion got to do with my opinion of David Beckham? It really doesn't help you convey your argument when you bring completely irrelevant topics into the fold.

 

[Seven]

What was your opinion about David Beckham contributing to our discussion? IMO Real Madrid will absolutely destroy us, of course not because they have Beckham, but because they're playing way better. You don't have to act like I don't know anything about football, just because I've got the brains not to immediatly bash a player for being famous and pretty.

 

[gray]

...it was a joke. Calm down. I wasn't acting like you don't know anything about football... what's with you and taking everything as a patronising comment about yourself or your value as a human being?

btw the Beckham comment wasn't even part of this discussion, so it doesn't really make sense to question its relevance to the original discussion.

 

[Seven]

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++
...it was a joke. Calm down. I wasn't acting like you don't know anything about football... what's with you and taking everything as a patronising comment about yourself or your value as a human being?

btw the Beckham comment wasn't even part of this discussion, so it doesn't really make sense to question its relevance to the original discussion.

Cause a lot of posters here tend to act patronising. And some people like Andy don't even realise that through this attitude they say incredible things. He even implicated helping out the hungry was some lowlife job. "The only job some people can excel at".

The fact is that in this forum, if you question Zlatan you get shot down. If you say Del Piero played good and that Beckham must have been a pretty good player to start with you get shot down. There's no such thing as freedom of speech on this forum, gray.

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by Seven ] ++
Cause a lot of posters here tend to act patronising. And some people like Andy don't even realise that through this attitude they say incredible things. He even implicated helping out the hungry was some lowlife job. "The only job some people can excel at".

No need to throw everyone in the same basket

++ [ originally posted by Seven ] ++
The fact is that in this forum, if you question Zlatan you get shot down. If you say Del Piero played good and that Beckham must have been a pretty good player to start with you get shot down. There's no such thing as freedom of speech on this forum, gray.

I'm sorry you feel that way about the forums, but personally I don't think it's like that. It's not simply a case of Zlatan-lovers versus DP-lovers as it may initially seem. I think it's obvious that I personally prefer Zlatan as a player, but I still respect and admire Del Piero, and I always want him to perform well and lead the team to victory when he's on the pitch.

I've come to accept, though, that he's not the player he once was, and I can't help but be delighted to see our exciting new signing adapting well and making important contributions to the team. I respect the fact that people still hold Del Piero in extremely high regard and that we don't unceremoniously dump our captain on the wayside ala Real Madrid, but it still shocks me to see people saying that Zlatan is a useless waste of money when it's clear that they are simply resentful of the fact that Del Piero's time appears to be passing. If Zlatan or Trezeguet start playing poorly, or Del Piero plays better than one of them (as he did with Trez against Udinese) of course I want him to start if he's in good form. Until then though, I don't think it makes sense to simply play him because he's our captain and icon.

btw I didn't 'shoot you down' over the fact that you said Beckham was a decent player to start with, I questioned the validity of your argument that because he's the most famous footballer in the world, he must be a smart businessman. I agree that Beckham was an integral part of Fergie's treble-winning Man Utd. side, but it's clear that beyond his crossing and free kicks, he's really not that great a player.

 

[Seven]

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++

No need to throw everyone in the same basket

I'm sorry you feel that way about the forums, but personally I don't think it's like that. It's not simply a case of Zlatan-lovers versus DP-lovers as it may initially seem. I think it's obvious that I personally prefer Zlatan as a player, but I still respect and admire Del Piero, and I always want him to perform well and lead the team to victory when he's on the pitch.

I've come to accept, though, that he's not the player he once was, and I can't help but be delighted to see our exciting new signing adapting well and making important contributions to the team. I respect the fact that people still hold Del Piero in extremely high regard and that we don't unceremoniously dump our captain on the wayside ala Real Madrid, but it still shocks me to see people saying that Zlatan is a useless waste of money when it's clear that they are simply resentful of the fact that Del Piero's time appears to be passing. If Zlatan or Trezeguet start playing poorly, or Del Piero plays better than one of them (as he did with Trez against Udinese) of course I want him to start if he's in good form. Until then though, I don't think it makes sense to simply play him because he's our captain and icon.

btw I didn't 'shoot you down' over the fact that you said Beckham was a decent player to start with, I questioned the validity of your argument that because he's the most famous footballer in the world, he must be a smart businessman. I agree that Beckham was an integral part of Fergie's treble-winning Man Utd. side, but it's clear that beyond his crossing and free kicks, he's really not that great a player.

I don't think Zlatan is a waste of money. The only thing that people don't seem to realise here, is that Zlatan still isn't one of the world's greatest. And IMO he really was Juve's worst player on sunday. Though of course I've seen him play better games.

The thing that irritates me on this forum is that it's apparently cool to bash Del Piero. There are some inane DP-lovers, I admit, but to say that Del Piero has sucked this season isn't true either. If you're going to say Zlatan played well so far, then so did Del Piero. And I do have statistics to back that up. We all know Del Piero won't ever be the player he once was. But he can still be of use for this team.

Anyway, I would love to see Del Piero move to Palermo. IMO that would be the greatest thing for all parties involved. Del Piero used to be a world class player, but over the years he has become too slow. The Roberto Baggio that was great for Brescia, wouldn't have been great for Juventus or AC Milan either.

As for Beckham, his crossing and free kicks used to be so important for Man U that he was a world class player. Henry doesn't excel at headers either, but we're not questioning his abilities now are we? If you're particulary good at one thing in the game, that doesn't necessarily mean you're a very limited player.

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by Seven ] ++
I don't think Zlatan is a waste of money. The only thing that people don't seem to realise here, is that Zlatan still isn't one of the world's greatest.

Of course he isn't, because he's only young. It only makes sense, though, to give him as much experience as possible, because it's obvious that he's a very talented player, and I think he can do great things for us in the future. Sure, he's still lacking in a lot of areas in his game, but he can only improve.

++ [ originally posted by Seven ] ++
And IMO he really was Juve's worst player on sunday.

That I wholeheartedly disagree with. No need to go into that again though.

++ [ originally posted by Seven ] ++
The thing that irritates me on this forum is that it's apparently cool to bash Del Piero. There are some inane DP-lovers, I admit, but to say that Del Piero has sucked this season isn't true either. If you're going to say Zlatan played well so far, then so did Del Piero.

I don't think it's cool to blindly bash Del Piero, and personally I don't think I've bashed him. I still give criticism where it's due though, and Del Piero has had some really disappointing performances so far. Then again, so has Zlatan, but it's his first season in arguably the toughest league in the world, and nobody can argue that he's adapted well and been an important player for us this season. I don't think Del Piero's sucked, in fact he rather impressed me against Udinese.

++ [ originally posted by Seven ] ++
As for Beckham, his crossing and free kicks used to be so important for Man U that he was a world class player. Henry doesn't excel at headers either, but we're not questioning his abilities now are we? If you're particulary good at one thing in the game, that doesn't necessarily mean you're a very limited player.

Of course being particularly good at one thing doesn't make him limited as a player. It's not because he's so good at free kicks and crosses that he's found so lacking in the other areas of his game, it's because that's all he can do.

Henry is a forward, and he does what he needs to very well. He dribbles past defenders and scores goals, and accomodates for the fact that he can't head by scoring so much with his feet. It's much harder for players like Beckham, though, to make such compensations, since midfielders are usually called upon to perform a wider spectrum of duties on the football field.

 

[Seven]

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++

Of course he isn't, because he's only young. It only makes sense, though, to give him as much experience as possible, because it's obvious that he's a very talented player, and I think he can do great things for us in the future. Sure, he's still lacking in a lot of areas in his game, but he can only improve.

That I wholeheartedly disagree with. No need to go into that again though.

I don't think it's cool to blindly bash Del Piero, and personally I don't think I've bashed him. I still give criticism where it's due though, and Del Piero has had some really disappointing performances so far. Then again, so has Zlatan, but it's his first season in arguably the toughest league in the world, and nobody can argue that he's adapted well and been an important player for us this season. I don't think Del Piero's sucked, in fact he rather impressed me against Udinese.

Of course being particularly good at one thing doesn't make him limited as a player. It's not because he's so good at free kicks and crosses that he's found so lacking in the other areas of his game, it's because that's all he can do.

Henry is a forward, and he does what he needs to very well. He dribbles past defenders and scores goals, and accomodates for the fact that he can't head by scoring so much with his feet. It's much harder for players like Beckham, though, to make such compensations, since midfielders are usually called upon to perform a wider spectrum of duties on the football field.

The thing is though that at 23, most players that will ever reach world class level are already there. Or are at least almost there. Zlatan is nowhere near.

I don't think you've bashed Del Piero either, what bothers me is that the general consensus on this forum seems that it's cool to bash Del Piero. Hating Del Piero means you know something about the game, so it seems.

Beckham lacked in other areas of his games, but made up for those because his crossing was simply not of this universe. For Man U Beckham was a world class player, because they badly needed his crosses. He was needed for England as well. The reason he isn't a good player anymore is that he simply is not needed in a team like Real Madrid.

I still disagree though if you say Beckham hasn't got anything more to offer than his crosses. That's just the only thing he's really good at. He's decent in most other things. His dribbling for example isn't world class, but it still is alright.

 

[arc]

++ [ originally posted by Seven ] ++

the general consensus on this forum seems that it's cool to bash Del Piero. Hating Del Piero means you know something about the game, so it seems.

i agree with wht u said abt dp but beckham simply cant dribble ..

 

[Cronios]

Becham isnt the worst player of the world,
he used to be one of the 200-300 first,
if he wasnt born in England,
he would have staid there,
but the British have the need for young king+God-like heroes,
their press and MAN UN marketing, one of the best in the world pushed him much further from where he was supposed to be,
its not normal to be in top 25 worlds players, cause he is only good for English football, they use crosses and headers more than everyone and its hardly ever needed to do smth else,
only Giggs could dribble back then, in the entire team!!!
He was lucky enough to be English and be in Fergusson s team
and he was flexible enough to accept his role as showman insteed of football player just for some people to make cash create an idol in his face.

 

[Cronios]

anyone watching the tsunami match?

 

[arc]

i will download highlight afterwards

 

[arc]

++ [ originally posted by grecul ] ++
Becham isnt the worst player of the world,
he used to be one of the 200-300 first,
if he wasnt born in England,
he would have staid there,
but the British have the need for young king+God-like heroes,
their press and MAN UN marketing, one of the best in the world pushed him much further from where he was supposed to be,
its not normal to be in top 25 worlds players, cause he is only good for English football, they use crosses and headers more than everyone and its hardly ever needed to do smth else,
only Giggs could dribble back then, in the entire team!!!
He was lucky enough to be English and be in Fergusson s team
and he was flexible enough to accept his role as showman insteed of football player just for some people to make cash create an idol in his face.

i agree with u up to a point, english football isnt as bad as wht u ppl think, n football is not only abt dribbling, players like roy keane and van nistelrooy dont dribble much, still they are world class player

and back in the time when beckham in man utd n man utd is superb, it was that awesome teamwork they play which lead them to glory, not beckham's cross

 

[Juve_The_Best]

its very nice that we have been on the top for a several weeks specially from the begining of the calcio while the real chaser won by a stupid own goal. so we don't care from now on about others all what we have to do is keep going with 3 points even if they kept as well.

hitting the target with another 2 goals will enjoy my eyes again on this match !!

 

[Azzurri7]

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++

Why? Because they have Beckham?

Beckham is a great player, no one can deny that...

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Seven ] ++

And btw gray, I've about had enough of your moronic attitude. I don't know why you feel you're so much better than the rest of us, but I really don't need some religion fanatic to look down on me. **** you

No offesne, but he is actually better than you.

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Seven ] ++


Cause a lot of posters here tend to act patronising. And some people like Andy don't even realise that through this attitude they say incredible things. He even implicated helping out the hungry was some lowlife job. "The only job some people can excel at".

Coming from a "man" who made a mockery out of 9/11, I will take that to heart.

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Seven ] ++


I don't think Zlatan is a waste of money. The only thing that people don't seem to realise here, is that Zlatan still isn't one of the world's greatest. And IMO he really was Juve's worst player on sunday. Though of course I've seen him play better games.

Have I or anybody else on this forum stated that Zlatan is a world class player at the moment? Not I, probably nobody else either. Calling Zlatan a world class player at the moment is a farce, just like stating that he was the worst player on the park Sunday. I know Zlatan has to improve greatly before he is called a world class player, however that does not mean our #9 lacks the ability or talent to become such a great player.

One of my biggest beefs with some people is calling for the heads of new players only after one season, or pathetically, after one match. Olivera has one horrid match and people say he is not Juve quality. Zlatan has a couple bad matches that lie beneath many great matches, while posters like yourself state that he is not Juventus quality and never will be. How can a player who has been our best striker thus far not be Juventus quality? Just does not make sense to me, especially with what he has accomplished in his first season with Juventus. Remember that Seven, he has not even played a full season in Turin. Zlatan has all the tools necessary to become a great player for the side; size and strength to draw defenders near him, fantastic ball control and dribbling for a big man. Saying that Zlatan is not a Juve quality and not one of the world's best young forwards is ridiculous. Even Paddy Agnew says that Zlatan will become a world class player one day. Can't beat that Seven.

Maybe you just do not like Zlatan because he threatens Del Piero's spot in the team, or the fact that he scored against your beloved Italy in Euro 2004.....I don't know really. Or maybe you just do not like him simply to counter people like me who want the best for Juventus....I don't know. What I do know is that Zlatan seems to have a bright future at Juventus, no matter what anybody has to say.

 

[Stu]

++ [ originally posted by azzurri7 ] ++

Beckham is a great player, no one can deny that...

He's not that great these days, he's actually one of the most overrated players in the world to me.