Serie A: Juventus vs Roma [Feb 16 , 2008] (24 Viewers)

[Brixity]

There is no way I will support a move to remove Chiellini at CB until we get a world class CB coz I dont trust this whole Stendardo business. This is much more risky than leaving Molinaro at LB imo. We r unbeaten in the league since October so I will maintain this perspective

 

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[Salvatore]

The fact that some posters have witnessed the occasional redeeming performance, while others clearly have seen no such sign.

This I see as an improvement over the likes of Grygera and Brazzo, who have yet to show their first worthy matches as first teamers to anybody on these forums.

Brazzo is only liked because of the goals he has scored for us this season, but recently he has been on Nocerino level. Grygera has been injured constantly, and not really impressed anyone. Molinaro is a constant annoyance because he is always started and always had faith in, even after he does woefully.

 

[sateeh]

about the molinaro and nocerino discussion.

First of all molinaro. Hes been playing well in recent times especially defensively, something he wasn't doing in the beginning of the season. Some games hes even been our best defender( the livorno game where he made two great tackles to save two goals). He held his own against some good wingers in the league but he still gets no credit. He needs to improve his crossing we all agree on that, but look at the other options as they are not great in that department anyway.

The nocerino sub was understandable as imo, as Tiago wasn't in better form anyway. He is not playing well but we needed his energy and tracking back skills in the game and in that department more than the creativity that tiago brings in. Both players were not going to bring to the game what camo brought, so CR went for the safer option.

We comprehensively beat a more mature team than ours with better individual players all over the field. Ranieri deserved his tactical victory as well.

 

[Brixity]

Not just for the sake of being sceptical but 1 thing that kind of worries me about Molinaro is that most poor crossing wing backs I've noticed tend to improve little on their crossing abilities. Looking at our very own Zebina, he still finds it hard to lift the ball and still drills them low and poor

 

[giovanotti]

I'm very happy and satisfied.We were controling all the game and finally we scored a goal and then defened the result against a heavy opponent.
Congrats to all and a great win for us.

 

[denco]

I was expecting to come on here and read a lot of jubilat fans talking about the positive performance that Juventus put on against the 2nd best side in Italy and in terms of quality alone joint 1st with Milan.

But no, it is the same focusing on the negatives and how apparently poor we were in the 2nd half.

It does not matter how bad Roma played, you are bound to get a reaction from them in the 2nd half but it seems that Juventus with a relatively poor pool of players are expected to dominate this Roma side for 90 minutes.

Okay, granted Spaletti has as much tactical nous as Frank Rijkaard but it is still a great achievement not to have lost to any of the big sides thus far this season.

It seems when some people are watching Juventus, they have their pens in hand, watching every Molinaro error, jotting it down and then bringing it on here for us to read.

If this is how fans in the stadium behave towards him then how the hell can he not be nervous.

I dont know about anoy of you guys but if I am to performa in public and have my own fans or even anybody waiting for an error to ridicule me, it would affect me badly.

We have seen the likes of Blasi, Appiah, Zebina, Boumsong, and now Noceriono and Molinaro not afforded any patience whatsoever and heckled and ridiculed them.

We have turned a blind eye to a good performance from them and continually bring up past bad performances that they have put in to belittle them.

Some players are liked and afforded the luxury of playing badly but their past glories stop us from judging them accordingly.

It is funny how Dp can get 10 for defending well but putting in bad crosses and Molinaro get 5.5 for doing the same thing buit Dp has earned his corn so its okay to give him as high marks as possible.

Ranieri got a victory and instead of getting universal praise it is mainly about what he should have done.

Now it would be understandable if it was a 2-legged affiar and we got away witha narrow 1-0 victory but it is not, its 3 points and we are not playing Roma again this season.

1 point behind Roma is not a bad thing as far as I can see.

Then you get the Tiago factor and thats is the 1 that baffles me the most, we are not talking about a Deco, or a Diego or an Aimar or a Riquelme here.

He is just a player that keeps things neat and simple without complication, he does not get about the field with so much energy and like many players we have had in the past his reputaion grows only because he has not been given a good crack at playing not because of any great abilities he might possess.

It is just another stick to beat Ranieri with. You cannot keep watching matches to pick out the mistakes of players you dont like just to say "I told you so".

It would just be nice for once in a while to give props to people that do well and keep out personal feelings

 

[giovanotti]

I was expecting to come on here and read a lot of jubilat fans talking about the positive performance that Juventus put on against the 2nd best side in Italy and in terms of quality alone joint 1st with Milan.

But no, it is the same focusing on the negatives and how apparently poor we were in the 2nd half.

It does not matter how bad Roma played, you are bound to get a reaction from them in the 2nd half but it seems that Juventus with a relatively poor pool of players are expected to dominate this Roma side for 90 minutes.

Okay, granted Spaletti has as much tactical nous as Frank Rijkaard but it is still a great achievement not to have lost to any of the big sides thus far this season.

It seems when some people are watching Juventus, they have their pens in hand, watching every Molinaro error, jotting it down and then bringing it on here for us to read.

If this is how fans in the stadium behave towards him then how the hell can he not be nervous.

I dont know about anoy of you guys but if I am to performa in public and have my own fans or even anybody waiting for an error to ridicule me, it would affect me badly.

We have seen the likes of Blasi, Appiah, Zebina, Boumsong, and now Noceriono and Molinaro not afforded any patience whatsoever and heckled and ridiculed them.

We have turned a blind eye to a good performance from them and continually bring up past bad performances that they have put in to belittle them.

Some players are liked and afforded the luxury of playing badly but their past glories stop us from judging them accordingly.

It is funny how Dp can get 10 for defending well but putting in bad crosses and Molinaro get 5.5 for doing the same thing buit Dp has earned his corn so its okay to give him as high marks as possible.

Ranieri got a victory and instead of getting universal praise it is mainly about what he should have done.

Now it would be understandable if it was a 2-legged affiar and we got away witha narrow 1-0 victory but it is not, its 3 points and we are not playing Roma again this season.

1 point behind Roma is not a bad thing as far as I can see.

Then you get the Tiago factor and thats is the 1 that baffles me the most, we are not talking about a Deco, or a Diego or an Aimar or a Riquelme here.

He is just a player that keeps things neat and simple without complication, he does not get about the field with so much energy and like many players we have had in the past his reputaion grows only because he has not been given a good crack at playing not because of any great abilities he might possess.

It is just another stick to beat Ranieri with. You cannot keep watching matches to pick out the mistakes of players you dont like just to say "I told you so".

It would just be nice for once in a while to give props to people that do well and keep out personal feelings

I enjoy your long posts mate.

 

[Arvin]

i bet 10000 for juve to win and 1000 to draw......

 

[AngelaL]

i bet 10000 for juve to win and 1000 to draw......

...and I put a jinx bet on Roma winning or drawing, so that Juve won!

 

[Dominic]

Excuse the pun, the main problem (besides the obvious bias issues)on here is that everything is always put into such a black and white perspective. Little to no nuance. Ranieri and Molinaro aren't always either terrible or brilliant, there is a middle ground.

Ranieri made a few mistakes(one which was forced upon him even) against Roma even, but tactically he outmastered the much praised(in italy anyway) Spalleti, with an offensive storm in the first half and he shut them down defensively in the second. Roma weren't that dangerous in the second 45 minutes.

Also I thought Molinaro AND Zebina played well. We only had three players in the centre of the pitch, so it was logical that the Roma wingers and fullbacks would have more space. It looked me like a calculated risk to me though, as we chose to close down Pizzaro and De Rossi, effectively cancelling out their build-up play and tempo-makers. Mancini, Taddei, Tonetto and Cassetti saw a lot of the ball, but they all had shockers. I reckon that Zebina and Molinaro at least deserve some credit for that.

Also, when you insist on highlighting the mistakes and poor crosses Molinaro for example makes, it's only fair to also highlight the positives of his game.

 

[Azzurri7]

denco

Nocerino and Molinaro are two diff case.

Molinaro hasn't been praised like Nocerino has, while if you look at it good, Molinaro has given a bit more than Nocerino. Nocerino has been appluaded many times just cause of his aggressive approach on the field...but if one look at it good, Nocerino is our worst player at least so far.

I'm against waiting for each player to make a mistake, Molinaro is waited for one mistake to make to be bashed, this is not good like you said. That said i'm satisfied with him at the back, he should improve alot upfront though.

 

[Bjerknes]

I was expecting to come on here and read a lot of jubilat fans talking about the positive performance that Juventus put on against the 2nd best side in Italy and in terms of quality alone joint 1st with Milan.

But no, it is the same focusing on the negatives and how apparently poor we were in the 2nd half.

It does not matter how bad Roma played, you are bound to get a reaction from them in the 2nd half but it seems that Juventus with a relatively poor pool of players are expected to dominate this Roma side for 90 minutes.

Okay, granted Spaletti has as much tactical nous as Frank Rijkaard but it is still a great achievement not to have lost to any of the big sides thus far this season.

It seems when some people are watching Juventus, they have their pens in hand, watching every Molinaro error, jotting it down and then bringing it on here for us to read.

If this is how fans in the stadium behave towards him then how the hell can he not be nervous.

I dont know about anoy of you guys but if I am to performa in public and have my own fans or even anybody waiting for an error to ridicule me, it would affect me badly.

We have seen the likes of Blasi, Appiah, Zebina, Boumsong, and now Noceriono and Molinaro not afforded any patience whatsoever and heckled and ridiculed them.

We have turned a blind eye to a good performance from them and continually bring up past bad performances that they have put in to belittle them.

Some players are liked and afforded the luxury of playing badly but their past glories stop us from judging them accordingly.

It is funny how Dp can get 10 for defending well but putting in bad crosses and Molinaro get 5.5 for doing the same thing buit Dp has earned his corn so its okay to give him as high marks as possible.

Ranieri got a victory and instead of getting universal praise it is mainly about what he should have done.

Now it would be understandable if it was a 2-legged affiar and we got away witha narrow 1-0 victory but it is not, its 3 points and we are not playing Roma again this season.

1 point behind Roma is not a bad thing as far as I can see.

Then you get the Tiago factor and thats is the 1 that baffles me the most, we are not talking about a Deco, or a Diego or an Aimar or a Riquelme here.

He is just a player that keeps things neat and simple without complication, he does not get about the field with so much energy and like many players we have had in the past his reputaion grows only because he has not been given a good crack at playing not because of any great abilities he might possess.

It is just another stick to beat Ranieri with. You cannot keep watching matches to pick out the mistakes of players you dont like just to say "I told you so".

It would just be nice for once in a while to give props to people that do well and keep out personal feelings

Did you even see the match?

Also, when you insist on highlighting the mistakes and poor crosses Molinaro for example makes, it's only fair to also highlight the positives of his game.

But what were his positives? And please don't tell me hard running. That's like praising Del Piero for having good ball control... it's a prerequisite.

 

[Snoop]

Why some people just don't stick with their opinions and stop changing it week in week out? I have seen enough mistakes of Ranieri that cost us points, and I ended up my support of him a month ago, so when he wins it against Roma I have to re support him back??

Is result everything? aren't we all agreeing that he was wrong when he subbed Camoranesi out? isn't he repeating these mistakes in almost every match? so why he is untouchable now?

 

[Amaurisimo]

Why some people just don't stick with their opinions and stop changing it week in week out? I have seen enough mistakes of Ranieri that cost us points, and I ended up my support of him a month ago, so when he wins it against Roma I have to re support him back??

Is result everything? aren't we all agreeing that he was wrong when he subbed Camoranesi out? isn't he repeating these mistakes in almost every match? so why he is untouchable now?

would you rather play good football and be in 5th place like milan or be fighting for 2nd place and play average/bad
Cammo was subbed cos of injury - so that has been cleared out already

 

[Dominic]

Excuse the pun, the main problem (besides the obvious bias issues)on here is that everything is always put into such a black and white perspective. Little to no nuance.

Case in point:

Why some people just don't stick with their opinions and stop changing it week in week out? I have seen enough mistakes of Ranieri that cost us points, and I ended up my support of him a month ago, so when he wins it against Roma I have to re support him back??

Simply give credit where it's due and critisize where it's justified. Simple as that..

Is result everything? aren't we all agreeing that he was wrong when he subbed Camoranesi out? isn't he repeating these mistakes in almost every match? so why he is untouchable now?

Have you been sleeping in a cave since the Roma game? Camoranesi was subbed, because he was injured. And yes, Ranieri does make mistakes, but overall he's done more than was expected of him and he handled the roma game well. Who's saying he's untouchable anyway??

But what were his positives? And please don't tell me hard running. That's like praising Del Piero for having good ball control... it's a prerequisite.

He does run hard though

He shut down Taddei and Cassetti, despite being pretty much alone on the left for most of the match. He dribbles quite well, nice technique for a fullback. His stamina is amazing, he keeps going up and down the flank(though he needs to learn the timing better and when it's approriate or not). He always manages to get in good positions, but it's indeed a shame that his crossing is below par. He has a good temperament. He has great phyiscal qualities and he generally is an able defender.

 

[Snoop]

would you rather play good football and be in 5th place like milan or be fighting for 2nd place and play average/bad
Cammo was subbed cos of injury - so that has been cleared out already

I am not talking about good football bad football here, I am talking about Ranieri running out of solutions, and our champions saving his ass frequently, and not because of his tactics..

 

[Snoop]

Case in point:



Simply give credit where it's due and critisize where it's justified. Simple as that..



Have you been sleeping in a cave since the Roma game? Camoranesi was subbed, because he was injured. And yes, Ranieri does make mistakes, but overall he's done more than was expected of him and he handled the roma game well. Who's saying he's untouchable anyway??



He does run hard though

He shut down Taddei and Cassetti, despite being pretty much alone on the left for most of the match. He dribbles quite well, nice technique for a fullback. His stamina is amazing, he keeps going up and down the flank(though he needs to learn the timing better and when it's approriate or not). He always manages to get in good positions, but it's indeed a shame that his crossing is below par. He has a good temperament. He has great phyiscal qualities and he generally is an able defender.

I gave him the credit for this match, check back my post, but criticized him for subbing Nocerino in and risking the 3 points in the second half!

 

[Alen]

Why some people just don't stick with their opinions and stop changing it week in week out? I have seen enough mistakes of Ranieri that cost us points, and I ended up my support of him a month ago, so when he wins it against Roma I have to re support him back??

Is result everything? aren't we all agreeing that he was wrong when he subbed Camoranesi out? isn't he repeating these mistakes in almost every match? so why he is untouchable now?

First of all, Camoranesi was injured. Ranieri was forced to sub him out.

And you're not getting the point of some of us here.
The question "Do you think Ranieri is a good coach ?" is different to "Do you think Ranieri did good today ? "
Few members here will bash him no matter what he does. That's actually the only problem here and the only reason for this little argument we're having.

As for sticking with the opinion....... if i say Ranieri is a bad coach and the next week i say Ranieri did very well today, it doesn't mean my opinion about Ranieri is changed. If i say the next week that he made terrible mistakes it doesn't mean that i changed my opinion about him for the third time.

 

[ZAF3000]

I am not talking about good football bad football here, I am talking about Ranieri running out of solutions, and our champions saving his ass frequently, and not because of his tactics..

Whats funny is, 2 years back we were in the same situation but with a stronger team which meant us being on the top of the league table.

Capello did not bring in any brilliant tachtics, unlike Lippi. Every match he was insisting on play Ibra and Vieira although they weren't performing at all. And it was all down to our champions (the current ones) a.k.a Del Piero and Trezeguet to save the day. And this is why we were knocked out of the CL easily.

 

[X Æ A-12]

There is no way I will support a move to remove Chiellini at CB until we get a world class CB coz I dont trust this whole Stendardo business. This is much more risky than leaving Molinaro at LB imo. We r unbeaten in the league since October so I will maintain this perspective

I agree i don't like moving chiellini. but i guess we could give it a shot against Reggina because they ain't exactly world beaters.