Serie A: Juventus vs Cagliari [Feb 3rd, 2008] (3 Viewers)

[denco]

Denco brings up a very good point but CR is not without blame in here at all. I will start with the sympathy for him and the players i guess:

-Calgiari, bottom table or not they played a top game. Absolute top defensive game and countered very smartly especially when foggia was out. If you looked closely everytime Alex, neddy, camo, palladino and even Tiago had the ball they had two players on them instantly and did not give them half a second on the ball. They knew that we had limited creativity in the team and that everything comes from that lot.Sadly this exposed our weaknesses in the squad overall.

- Ranieri didn't have many choices( although its obvious he chose the wrong one) on the right. He can't play camo because it was too much of a risk, and playing biri in the right back should be kept as a last resort the same with brazzo in rm. So he actually chose the more attacking option with palladino. It was a risk with him as he would've limited his attacking options on the bench.

-The team just played a marathon match again Inter in mid week and they looked really really tired from 30 minutes onwards.

On the opposite side:

-Denco's point comes up first and foremost. As our players should be good enough to beat the bottom team. We were beaten in the midfield and our set pieces were awful.

Then comes Ranieri. Just like Cronios mentioned he limited his options when he started palladino. Alex looked the most tired player on the field( rightfully so) but we didn't have any to replace him.

The second point is about the Tiago sub.Just as appalling as the Alex sub a few games back against sampadoria. There was no need for that sub what so ever. Tiago was actually defending better than nocerino and antonio was just having another horrible game. It was irrelevant if Tiago was doing great or not we needed him on the field because simply he offers more going forward.

finally the half time subs that he insists on. We were not doing as bad as it warrants a sub in HT. He should be patient but he rushes in his subs. Give the players some direction and then see how the other team is playing before rushing. It is something thats very demorlising for the players and unwarranted in many occasions.

You are quite right there, the rushed substitutions are stupid.

I still maintain if the players need a manager to beat the last placed team then they themselves are not worth a damn. Chelsea don't really have a manager and have been beating the teams they should beat quite comfortably cos they have superior players, it is when they meet the likes of Liverpool, Arsenal and Man united is when they would need Grant to show whatever worth he has.

The preoccupation with beating Inter is another problem, the energy expended especially from Dp caught up with him in this game and quite frankly anyone with any sense would not have started him in this match.

Palladino and Trez should have started up front and may be taking off Tiago was not a wise move but he did play for 67 minutes and against the likes of Cagliari he ought to have put in a performance that should say drop me of you dare Ranieri and I am not sure if he did that.

Andy says if Milan and Fiorentina plays to their potential, well if a male dog did not have a cock it would be a bitch.

Snoop says we are 3rd because of the efforts of our world beaters and nothing to do with Ranieri so whay is he taking the blame if we dont win afterall he has fuck all to do with the team as far as you are concerned.

You also claim serieA is poor, is this something new? It has been poor for a long time and when your heroic Capello with far better squad was winning it was piss poor.

Everyone takes advantage of situations except Rafa Benitez, when Lippi's Juventus was dominating serieA, did it not coincide with Milan aging badly and not having adequate replacements? When we were the dominant side in Europe where we not helped by the pillaging of the brilliant Ajax side decimated by Barcelona and Milan?

January is not an easy time to buy players as clubs are not gonna sell to you so I am not sure what that criticism is all about.

Since a lot of you know better than me and some others please enlighten we with our feeble minds how as a manager you would have done better and which players you would have brought in the january window since you are so certain clubs would sell you their most creative player?

 

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[vladale]

Nucleo,

We do indeed need a playmaker to play in midfield to make use of the balls that we win.

No, we don't need a playmaker for this. We don't need more players, we have good team, they're just not showing their full potential. We need a new coach that will make a proper tactic, not just first 11 and that's it. We could be first if we didn't tied so much games, just look at our Draw table!

We have Tiago for that, we have Nocerino. Even if they're not playing well, they're still good and I think that if we could have a proper tactic, everything will be running smoothly.

 

[Snoop]

You are quite right there, the rushed substitutions are stupid.

I still maintain if the players need a manager to beat the last placed team then they themselves are not worth a damn. Chelsea don't really have a manager and have been beating the teams they should beat quite comfortably cos they have superior players, it is when they meet the likes of Liverpool, Arsenal and Man united is when they would need Grant to show whatever worth he has.

The preoccupation with beating Inter is another problem, the energy expended especially from Dp caught up with him in this game and quite frankly anyone with any sense would not have started him in this match.

Palladino and Trez should have started up front and may be taking off Tiago was not a wise move but he did play for 67 minutes and against the likes of Cagliari he ought to have put in a performance that should say drop me of you dare Ranieri and I am not sure if he did that.

Andy says if Milan and Fiorentina plays to their potential, well if a male dog did not have a cock it would be a bitch.

Snoop says we are 3rd because of the efforts of our world beaters and nothing to do with Ranieri so whay is he taking the blame if we dont win afterall he has fuck all to do with the team as far as you are concerned.

You also claim serieA is poor, is this something new? It has been poor for a long time and when your heroic Capello with far better squad was winning it was piss poor.

Everyone takes advantage of situations except Rafa Benitez, when Lippi's Juventus was dominating serieA, did it not coincide with Milan aging badly and not having adequate replacements? When we were the dominant side in Europe where we not helped by the pillaging of the brilliant Ajax side decimated by Barcelona and Milan?

January is not an easy time to buy players as clubs are not gonna sell to you so I am not sure what that criticism is all about.

Since a lot of you know better than me and some others please enlighten we with our feeble minds how as a manager you would have done better and which players you would have brought in the january window since you are so certain clubs would sell you their most creative player?

Serie A was never poor like this, at the times when we won Serie A, our rivals weren't this desperate, our rivals had decent teams and 2 of the Milans had equal and dare to say better squad than us, as we had a super 11 but lacked depth, this is not the topic anyway..

This year and the prior Serie A was never poor like this. We have teams that can't beat 10-man Inter, and we are one of them. Isn't that pathetic?? at the past years when we won Scudetti in a row, we also received defeats too, and believe me this Inter isn't even worth shit, they will be kicked out of CL either in this round or Quarter finals. This is the Serie A situation.

As for Ranieri, he is not adding anything, the team are all playing like strangers, yes we are here in this position (which won't last long) because of our champion's huge efforts, but If you have a manager that will take an in form player, or take an attacker and put a defender when you desperately need a win, then he takes the blame for ruining the match even worse.

I really don't understand why you are defending Ranieri at the time when you are saying he isn't any good.

 

[Red]

No, we don't need a playmaker for this. We don't need more players, we have good team, they're just not showing their full potential. We need a new coach that will make a proper tactic, not just first 11 and that's it. We could be first if we didn't tied so much games, just look at our Draw table!

We have Tiago for that, we have Nocerino. Even if they're not playing well, they're still good and I think that if we could have a proper tactic, everything will be running smoothly.

Nocerino is a destroyer, not a footballer.

In theory, Tiago can do it, but he hasn't done enough.

 

[denco]

Serie A was never poor like this, at the times when we won Serie A, our rivals weren't this desperate, our rivals had decent teams and 2 of the Milans had equal and dare to say better squad than us, as we had a super 11 but lacked depth, this is not the topic anyway..

This year and the prior Serie A was never poor like this. We have teams that can't beat 10-man Inter, and we are one of them. Isn't that pathetic?? at the past years when we won Scudetti in a row, we also received defeats too, and believe me this Inter isn't even worth shit, they will be kicked out of CL either in this round or Quarter finals. This is the Serie A situation.

As for Ranieri, he is not adding anything, the team are all playing like strangers, yes we are here in this position (which won't last long) because of our champion's huge efforts, but If you have a manager that will take an in form player, or take an attacker and put a defender when you desperately need a win, then he takes the blame for ruining the match even worse.

I really don't understand why you are defending Ranieri at the time when you are saying he isn't any good.

Roma, Inter, Milan and Fiorentina have decent squads, in fact Roma has not had a squad as good as this in a long time but Spalletti refuses to make good use of it. The likes of Guily, Cicinho and Vucinic are criminally undersused. Milan have a good squad, old possibly but they need someone to motivate them. Ancellotti is too nice a guy.

Inter's squad is excellent.

Ranieri is not good but he does not have tools to work with either that is why I am not blaming everything on him.

Say he left Tiago on for the whole 90 minutes, is it set in stone that we would have won the game? can't the players take any sort of initiative on the pitch?

One of the biggest rants I keep reading is that palladino cannot play right midfield so why can he drift in from time to time? Does he have to wait for the manager to tell him to do so?

Against sides like Cagliari its not just uip to manager for them to be flexible, we are not playing against a superior side whereby ignoring instructions could be fatal.

I am pretty sure that I have seen you say you dont care how we play as long as we are winning especially under Capello so what has changed?

Our football is never pretty but now we have players that personally I would not even consider let alone sign and they are 3rd in the league.

I am not an optimist, i am a realist and its impossible for me to think that with our current bunch, good football would be possible.

I even read somewhere that Birindelli is a Juventus legend now how is that possible? He is a good pro nothing more. The fact that he has been here for 10 years or so does not mean we should elevate him to something he is not. The same people that would tell you that Gary neville is shit are trying to convince that Birindelli is something he has never been and would never be.

Going back to how bad SerieA is its kind of ironic though that in the past 2 seasons 3 teams have gone through from their groups and we would also see where they end up.

No doubt if they do well then it would mean that the whole of Europe is shit as well.

You would find me criticising the likes of Rijkaard that has messi, Ronaldinho, deco, iniesta, Henry, Xavi etc and he is still fooking around.

Compare that with what Ranieri has to work with because apart from the goal keeping part they acn call upon players in different positions we can only dream about and they have 47 points from 22 games and we have 41 from 21 games.

In all honesty its not really players or squads in seriea that are poor, it is the managers.

If you have the time just look at some of the players that Torino have and explain to me how they can be doing so badly with the players they have

 

[Bjerknes]

Andy says if Milan and Fiorentina plays to their potential, well if a male dog did not have a cock it would be a bitch.

Funny stuff, but you can't sit there and say that Milan and Fiorentina have played well thus far. And once they get back on form, we'll be in trouble if we keep playing this lethargic Ranieri football that consists of long balls and hoping for Del Piero to bail us out of jail again.

Sheesh denco, just watch the matches.

 

[ZAF3000]

Whether its ranieri's problem or the mangement or combined if you exclude few players, our squad is not worth a top team.

This seson, so far, proved only one thing that the likes of Del Piero and Buffon are worth their weight in diamonds. When we got, unjustly, relegated to Serie B if it wasn't for Del Piero we wouldn't have made it so easily.
This season just look at our starting 11.
Buffon: The best goalkeeper in the world and maybe in history

Grygera: an ok player for a middle to lower class team OR a bench player for a good team

Birindelli: I love you dude.. But for heaven's sake retire.

Zebina: You know our sides suck, when you wait for Zebina to return from his injury.

Camoranesi: Class, but was injured most of the season.

Marcchionni a good rotation player though injured most of the season
Legro: Although he is in a great form, his past say he is no more than a substitute. But since he is doing good this season I won't complain "alot"

Chiellini: He is one of the best LBs in Italy, maybe the best. But because we only have 1 CB in our team he has to play as a temp CB. The funny thing is, he is better than our CBs. Which tells you two things, A- Our CBs suck 2- He is quite good.

Molinaro: a LB that has not idea how to cross a ball. enough said.

Andrade: We bought an injury prone player who got out classed by a LB playing as a temp CB. Not a great team defender.

Salehamidicx: Not more than a substitute player.

Nocerino: He has the future ahead of him, but his passes are not optimum what so ever. he is good as a midtable team first 11 but for a scudetto challenger he shouldn't be more than an in rotation player.

Tiago: I know that we have a decent number of Tiago's fans, but this player has simply not performed. So till now, he is an aweful waste of money. I really hope he does something in the next 4 months.

Zanetti: Class.

Nedved: I love this player. One of the best mdifielders I have ever seen. He is 36 and he is giving it all. but whether we like it or not, he is 36. And he starts every game. This shouldn't be the case. He shouldn't start more than 70% of the matches so we can get his best in every match.

Del Piero: Is Del Piero.

Trezeguet: Is Trezeguet.

Iaquinta: A great player and good signing so far

Palladino: Is not performing well. Can't put alot of blame on him he is not a midfielder he is a forward and has been playing as a midfielder for a long time now.


So if you look back to our squad if you exclude forwards and goalkeeper, we are not that good at all especially if you consider injuries to the list.

 

[Red]

We undoubtedly have a lot of very average players in the squad just now.

That is why we must concentrate on one or two big signings to inject quality in the summer, rather than signing numbers to fill out the squad.

 

[MaNcIn3tt0_14]

I don't about Tiago himself being wasteful......If you take a look at some of the idiotic crap Ranieri said about Tiago... you can understand why should i give it my all when this dam ass coach as a thing out for me....I sorry, You guys know that Juventus have a passt of killing players like examples of Miccoli and Di Vaio......

Remeber, this if u ever played soccer and the coach had a thing out for you or played favorites like Ranieri does then you lose your motive to do anything..Honestly, if i was Tiago i would have said Fuck you to Ranieir playing a player if not fit is something but, when you take stuff like to the Media as " We were forced to by him because Momo was to much." Then a player feels like their is no need to try...

This is Clearly the Mangers fault......

 

[denco]

Funny stuff, but you can't sit there and say that Milan and Fiorentina have played well thus far. And once they get back on form, we'll be in trouble if we keep playing this lethargic Ranieri football that consists of long balls and hoping for Del Piero to bail us out of jail again.

Sheesh denco, just watch the matches.

Thats a given but how long is the world gonna wait for Fiorentina?

Are you actually telling me that our squad is good enough to play the kind of football that you and I like?

Are you telling me that everything is Ranieri's fault? What does it say about a team if they cannot carry Molinaro after all he is just an individual and no way can be blamed for our ills

This is not a good squad and they are punching above their weight and Ranieri whether he is liked or loathed deserves some praise.

Long balls? we always play long balls. We dont have defenders than can play ie technically gifted.

The midfield is full of players without an ounce of creativity so they are bypassed.

Not since zidane did we play through the midfield but because we have really poor technicians it is bleeding obvious

Our best players are Dp, Nedved, Trez but sadly they dont have the legs and you need legs to compensate, thats what the likes of Nocerino, Molinaro and co bring to the team.

We may not appreciate them but they do a lot of running around and believe me thats important cos without them we would be worse off

Dp and Trez may take all the credit cos of their goals and all but there have been games when they do not do anything and the runners have prevented defeat.

Ask milan if they are not hurting because there are no more than 1 gatusso at least pato with his energy and running has breathed some life into their team

A team comprising Tiago, Almiron and Zanetti with Dp, nedved and Trez would be massacred in my view quite easily

 

[Elvin]

I agree that Birindelli is not a legend. A team senator maybe, a senior player... but calling Birindelli a legend makes the word "legend" very cheap.

 

[Bjerknes]

Thats a given but how long is the world gonna wait for Fiorentina?

Are you actually telling me that our squad is good enough to play the kind of football that you and I like?

Are you telling me that everything is Ranieri's fault? What does it say about a team if they cannot carry Molinaro after all he is just an individual and no way can be blamed for our ills

This is not a good squad and they are punching above their weight and Ranieri whether he is liked or loathed deserves some praise.

Long balls? we always play long balls. We dont have defenders than can play ie technically gifted.

The midfield is full of players without an ounce of creativity so they are bypassed.

Not since zidane did we play through the midfield but because we have really poor technicians it is bleeding obvious

Our best players are Dp, Nedved, Trez but sadly they dont have the legs and you need legs to compensate, thats what the likes of Nocerino, Molinaro and co bring to the team.

We may not appreciate them but they do a lot of running around and believe me thats important cos without them we would be worse off

Dp and Trez may take all the credit cos of their goals and all but there have been games when they do not do anything and the runners have prevented defeat.

Ask milan if they are not hurting because there are no more than 1 gatusso at least pato with his energy and running has breathed some life into their team

A team comprising Tiago, Almiron and Zanetti with Dp, nedved and Trez would be massacred in my view quite easily

If Zeman's Lecce could wow the crowd with players such as Bojinov, Axel Konan, and Ledesma, Juventus could at least show a little something going forward, don't you think? Or is that too much to ask? I mean, you're talking as if we have a Serie B squad out there, or a side that has less talent than Empoli. Is it really that difficult to actually make sense going forward instead of just blasting the ball every which way and hoping Del Piero can get it on his foot?

It all starts with playing a formation and a team that suits our roster, something we don't do for some strange reason. We don't have any real wingers when Camoranesi is out of action, and Nedved plays best when he's fielded beyond the strikers like he was when Lippi was here. But no, we always play the straight 4-4-2 and use players like Palladino out on the wing because we don't have anybody else. Palladino cannot defend worth a shit either, yet we restrict him to the right flank where he doesn't do anything. Does that make any sense to you denco? It doesn't make any sense to me.

I'm not asking for our side to play beautiful football, but rather I'm asking to at least have an idea going forward and field a team that suits our needs and makes sense. If we played with a trident against Cagliari and the other lowly sides we drew with recently, we'd probably have more than just a point in those matches. We will never play beautiful football with this team, but we can certainly play better football if it wasn't for the foolish decisions by Ranieri.

 

[ZAF3000]

If you look back to Inter Vs Juventus in San Sero, it was like Cagliari Vs Inter while Del Piero playing with Cagliari. We has literally playing ALONE. Even our average players failed to perform.
Its a compliment for Del Piero for finishing the score 2-2 but it is without doubt a shame thing that we don't have a proper squad. Now imagine we had a proper squad alone side him? Well why imagine, just remember the Lippi days.. Aaaah.

We are ussed to winning trophies, we are used to having a proper squad we are used to being the strongest and most feared team in Italy. So lets stand on our feet properly and be all we can be..

 

[Salvatore]

Palladino and Trez should have started up front and may be taking off Tiago was not a wise move but he did play for 67 minutes and against the likes of Cagliari he ought to have put in a performance that should say drop me of you dare Ranieri and I am not sure if he did that.

He wasn't daring Ranieri to substitute him on pitch and really going in for it, and I might have overrated him a bit in the match. The fact that Nocerino was having an awful game in comparison really was glaring and should have been pulled off instead, it seemed more sensible.

Do you have a link to the article you said you wrote on managers and tactics (or something along those lines, can't remember what exactly)?

 

[denco]

Bojinov, Ledesma, Konnan, Axel etc all have pace and power and that is a preequisite of every Zeman side.

Zeman concentrates on fitness and attacking football and leaves defence to the gods .

Nedved is 35, Dp is 33, under Lippi they were 5 years younger and could do more than they can now and had other great to very good players to help them.

Unless I am missing something but Salihamidzic, Nocerino, palladino, Molinaro, Tiago, Almiron etc are hardly world class, hell they wont not have played under Lippi

Appiah and Blasi looked completely out of place under Lippi and capello cos the players we had, bet they would look like world beaters compared to this lot.

At this point in time Legrottaglie is our best defender. If this was said to me and most of our fourm members they would think we were talking about a serieB side

Christian Zanetti is head and shoulders above every midfielder on there save Camoranesi. Does that not tell you something is very wrong with the squad?

Ranieri is not entirely blameless but he does not deserve the amount of stick he is getting

 

[denco]

He wasn't daring Ranieri to substitute him on pitch and really going in for it, and I might have overrated him a bit in the match. The fact that Nocerino was having an awful game in comparison really was glaring and should have been pulled off instead, it seemed more sensible.

Do you have a link to the article you said you wrote on managers and tactics (or something along those lines, can't remember what exactly)?

http://http://www.footballclubsblog.com/2008/02/03/where-have-all-the-great-tacticians-gone.html

 

[Marceℓℓo]

[/B]
http://http://www.footballclubsblog.com/2008/02/03/where-have-all-the-great-tacticians-gone.html

Good article

Happy bithday BTW.int:

 

[Salvatore]

Good article

Seconded. Hope you had a good birthday as well.

 

[Salvo]

[/B]
http://http://www.footballclubsblog.com/2008/02/03/where-have-all-the-great-tacticians-gone.html

great article i couldnt agree more. and happy birthday have a good 1

 

[sateeh]

You are quite right there, the rushed substitutions are stupid.

I still maintain if the players need a manager to beat the last placed team then they themselves are not worth a damn. Chelsea don't really have a manager and have been beating the teams they should beat quite comfortably cos they have superior players, it is when they meet the likes of Liverpool, Arsenal and Man united is when they would need Grant to show whatever worth he has.

The preoccupation with beating Inter is another problem, the energy expended especially from Dp caught up with him in this game and quite frankly anyone with any sense would not have started him in this match.

Palladino and Trez should have started up front and may be taking off Tiago was not a wise move but he did play for 67 minutes and against the likes of Cagliari he ought to have put in a performance that should say drop me of you dare Ranieri and I am not sure if he did that.

Andy says if Milan and Fiorentina plays to their potential, well if a male dog did not have a cock it would be a bitch.

Snoop says we are 3rd because of the efforts of our world beaters and nothing to do with Ranieri so whay is he taking the blame if we dont win afterall he has fuck all to do with the team as far as you are concerned.

You also claim serieA is poor, is this something new? It has been poor for a long time and when your heroic Capello with far better squad was winning it was piss poor.

Everyone takes advantage of situations except Rafa Benitez, when Lippi's Juventus was dominating serieA, did it not coincide with Milan aging badly and not having adequate replacements? When we were the dominant side in Europe where we not helped by the pillaging of the brilliant Ajax side decimated by Barcelona and Milan?

January is not an easy time to buy players as clubs are not gonna sell to you so I am not sure what that criticism is all about.

Since a lot of you know better than me and some others please enlighten we with our feeble minds how as a manager you would have done better and which players you would have brought in the january window since you are so certain clubs would sell you their most creative player?

i agree with you about Tiago especially, and overall on the players performance. They didn't step up but also we needed CR to be reasonable.

I agree with you that this squad can't play the expected type of football from some people here.

And i dont like saying if this or if that, because its not reality.

If we played with a trident against Cagliari and the other lowly sides we drew with recently, we'd probably have more than just a point in those matches.

We could've played with whatever formation we could. With the same players we had on the weekend and the same performance by Calgiari the best result would be a draw or scrappy win.
They played a top game and everyone here is understating that. We drew with catania and sampadoria but they didn't negate our players like that.

This year and the prior Serie A was never poor like this. We have teams that can't beat 10-man Inter, and we are one of them. Isn't that pathetic?? at the past years when we won Scudetti in a row, we also received defeats too, and believe me this Inter isn't even worth shit, they will be kicked out of CL either in this round or Quarter finals. This is the Serie A situation.

I really don't understand why you are defending Ranieri at the time when you are saying he isn't any good.

Inter are a good team and they proved that this season. I hate their guts but they are up there with the best teams in Europe and i think they will destroy liverpool.