[Serie A] Juventus 2-3 Napoli, Oct 31st, 2009 (37 Viewers)

Juve - Napoli [Matchday 11] : Man of the Match

  • Buffon

  • Grygera

  • Cannavaro

  • Chiellini

  • Grosso

  • Poulsen

  • Melo

  • Diego

  • Giovinco

  • Camoranesi

  • Trezeguet

  • Tiago

  • De Ceglie

  • Amauri

  • Ferrara

  • Hamsik

  • Datolo

  • Mazzarri

  • Sissoko


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classicalmania

Junior Member
Jun 20, 2009
159
what kind of fuckin' :gsol: depth :gsol: are you expecting when DP, Iaquinta, Zebina, Sissoko, Marchisio and Salihamidzic are injured? add to that Amauri going down with a fever...that is SEVEN 1st team players, and at least 4 100% starters...show me one club that can have that kind of injury crisis and not suffer?
Could people please stop finding excuse in player injuries please? We are the biggest team in Italy, against a much smaller one, and were leading 2 goals. There is no excuse for the loss. No at all. Look at :inter:, in the match against Genoa, they had Diego Milito, Thiago Motta, Samuel Eto'o and Marco Materazzi injured, adding to that Cambiasso who injured before half time. What they did to Genoa? Was Genoa able to find a single goal against them? In their own turf?
I'm sorry but there is completely no excuse at all. With the available players we should have done much better.

Now for you guys who keep defending Ferrara, let's look at the whole picture. Like you, I love him and all, but he really needs to change if he want to succeed in Juve.
Firstly, he was so predictable. He publicly said that he would stick to the 4-3-1-2 and he spent the whole summer to prepare for that only ONE formation. The outcome was that Juve became so predictable and the opponents easily found a way to shut us down, only after watching us playing some friendlies! The 4-4-1-1 we are using now would also become predictable had one of the winger become unavailable and I will discuss about it later. His subs, also become very predictable. At the 70th - 80th we would always see De Ceglie coming in to sub for one of our AMC, regardless of the result. The list could go on, but I am tired of pointing them out.

Secondly, I think he does not have any backup plan. Not at all. The whole summer was spent just to prepare for the 4-3-1-2 and he built his squad only for this formation. The consequent is what you called "lack of depth" when we wanted to switch to another formation.
The 4-4-1-1 we are using now is not a prepared plan of Ferrara, it is just an emergency case and I am sure he would not use it had our forwards not injured. And even with this formation Ferrara did not have any backup plan for it. We all saw what happened after Camo was injured. We kept the same formation even that we don't have the suitable players. The consequent was that we let Napoli to come back and killed us with three goals! Some of you said that due to the "lack of depth" we could not do anything better with the subs, but I would blame Ciro for that too. Actually we had plenty of depth, but the players were bought only for the 4-3-1-2. Had we prepared for multiple options, we would have more options in the bench to deal with the situation.

Thirdly, I think he does not read the game well and does not know what to do once the match turns to a different direction against us. I can show you countless examples where we dominated the first half, lead the opponents one or more goals, then Ferrara was outwitted by the opponent's coach and we let them came back and killed us: Bordeaux, Genoa, Bologna, Fio, and Napoli. Had we not have Buffon, the list would even be longer.

Finally, I think he failed to motivate the players, to give them the determination that a team like Juve should have. Since I felt in love with the old lady in the early 90s, I was always proud of our most famous characters: grit, determination and the drive to fight until the end. I failed to see that in this current Juve. Look at the list of matches above and you will see what I mean.
 

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classicalmania

Junior Member
Jun 20, 2009
159
Now if I were a coach in Serie A, I would be happier to see this Juve under Ferrara than the Juve under the other coaches in the past, even with the 4-4-1-1. To deal with this 4-4-1-1 formation, I would tell my players to either break the legs of one of Juve AML/AMR, or get them sent off. I would pick Camo, because he is so head-hot and injury prone. Once Juve lost one of her attacking wingers, I would tell my players to exploit on that flank and there would be a lot of opportunities for my team to find goals to equalise or even take the lead.

Now that if my team can find the goals against Juve, Ferrara would certainly sub in De Ceglie for the other attacking winger, an AMC, or a DM. That would also be another thing that I already expected and now I can confidently tell my team to go for the winner!

That is how predictable this Juve is!

I am against changing coach in the mid-season, unless we can find a very good alternative, which I doubt. However, Ferrara really needs to change or he will be changed. If I were him, I firstly would start looking for backups for our left/right midfielders (yes, midfielders, not fullbacks as some of you would have thought) to have more options in case Gio or Camo is not available. Secondly, in practice I would try to test different formations to play with different opponents in different situations.

Watching my Juve like this, is really painful!
 
Dec 31, 2008
22,910
This team will take more time to perform consistently and by that time Merda are gonna run away with a handsome lead. It's just quarter of the season and merda can already take a 7 point lead :sergio:
 

Lo-Pan

Disciple of Gonzo
Feb 11, 2009
2,788
Finally, I think he failed to motivate the players, to give them the determination that a team like Juve should have. Since I felt in love with the old lady in the early 90s, I was always proud of our most famous characters: grit, determination and the drive to fight until the end. I failed to see that in this current Juve. Look at the list of matches above and you will see what I mean.
That was the point I was trying to make last week in a ill-fated thread in the team talk section. I allowed myself, after reading the responses, and the 5 goal haul against Samp, to believe that it was just a sign of the transitional phase, of moving from many years of playing various renditions of 4-4-2, to a much more open on the flanks, 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-1-2. BOTH of these leave the flanks wide open. When we have Giovinco and Camo both fit and flying, AND Melo with the lynchpin of this whole team, the fulcrum, MOMO, we can destroy opposition, without playing brilliantly, as we did against Samp. When those conditions are not met, and as with last night, we are missing MOMO, and also lose Camo, our strengths become weaknesses, and the flanks are lost, putting horrendous pressure on our fullbacks.

Goblin Grygera isn't great, but he is solid if he he has ONE man to defend against. The same can be said of Grosso, whose tackling is better, as is his distribution, but he is not capable of decent decision making when he has two players or more running towards him. If that is what Ferrara expects of our left back, then stick Chiellini there...and blood ariuado or Caceres in the middle...why not??? Its not as if our defence is presently impregnable...

Zebina can do a job there. And he can even handle, the onslaught. But both fullbacks, in those formations, DEMAND, either
a. Momo covering the WHOLE width of the pitch, not giving the opposing midfield time on the ball, and with every tackle he makes, causing pain and torment.
or
b. Camo and Gio both having decent games, and tracking back to defend when our attacks fail. Camo does this...though often fouls. Gio tries to, but is a tad too small to prove more than a nuisance....last night, when camo went off, grygera was horribly exposed. desperately so...Tiago was non existent as a defensive force. And I feel his only use can come as part of a central midfield, not on the wing...

we savagely missed Momo. his presence is a massive strength of ours. as even when he plays badly, he NEVER allows players to simply run by him, and whenever he goes to ground, he is always straight back on his feet and after the next man. Melo lacks that tenacity. If he had it, he would be superb, because he CAN play the ball as well as WIN the ball. However, it remains to be seen whether Ciro can inject him with some spirit.

we do lack depth in the squad. But tactically speaking...2-0 up at home...and to go on to lose 2-3, is an embarassment.

I think that we should all accept that we are in transition. The scudetto is beyond us. Perhaps we can progress in the champions league...and if we get to the knockout stage, who can say what will happen...but domestically...we must focus on bedding in the new players, bringing through the youth, earmarking new talent, and aiming for second place.
 

classicalmania

Junior Member
Jun 20, 2009
159
Goblin Grygera isn't great, but he is solid if he he has ONE man to defend against. The same can be said of Grosso, whose tackling is better, as is his distribution, but he is not capable of decent decision making when he has two players or more running towards him. If that is what Ferrara expects of our left back, then stick Chiellini there...and blood ariuado or Caceres in the middle...why not??? Its not as if our defence is presently impregnable...
Good post, +rep. And totally agree with you on the quote above.
 

Alen

Ѕenior Аdmin
Apr 2, 2007
54,000
What do you want him to do? Slap them all in the face in numerical order? How much can he possibly do from the sidelines? The first goal should have woken the team up. These are proffessional footballers for heavens sake. They should know the start of a comeback when they see it.
I want him to install winning mentality, never give up and never stop attitude. I don't want our players to completely give up after leading 1:0 against Chievo and Bologna, I don't want our players to defend for 30 minutes a 1:1 draw at home against Fiorentina, I don't want our players to be losing 2:0 in Palermo and keep playing nonchalantly, bloodlessly, as if they're satisfied with the defeat.
Ranieri couldn't do it. The players acted as if they didn't care, and they really didn't care judging by the way they played under Ranieri in the later part of last year's season.

Ferrara was supposed to change that and he didn't. It's even worse now because now we have better players (Diego, Melo, Grosso, Cannavaro are all better than what we had last year) and we still act like perennial losers.
 

Enoran

Senior Member
Nov 3, 2007
1,739
I want him to install winning mentality, never give up and never stop attitude. I don't want our players to completely give up after leading 1:0 against Chievo and Bologna, I don't want our players to defend for 30 minutes a 1:1 draw at home against Fiorentina, I don't want our players to be losing 2:0 in Palermo and keep playing nonchalantly, bloodlessly, as if they're satisfied with the defeat.
Ranieri couldn't do it. The players acted as if they didn't care, and they really didn't care judging by the way they played under Ranieri in the later part of last year's season.

Ferrara was supposed to change that and he didn't. It's even worse now because now we have better players (Diego, Melo, Grosso, Cannavaro are all better than what we had last year) and we still act like perennial losers.

I'm sure Ferrara can do that at the start of the game and during half-time. The coach needs someone to reinforce it during the game itself and that answer is Del Piero.
 

Azzurri7

Pinturicchio
Moderator
Dec 16, 2003
72,692
Fact is, the season is still long, we should improve because there's nothing over yet, Inter can win tonight, we can still catch them, 7points is nothing if we work well on improving ourselves and stop repeating the same mistakes....

With Del Piero and hopefully other injured players back we should not repeat these mistakes.
 

classicalmania

Junior Member
Jun 20, 2009
159
I want him to install winning mentality, never give up and never stop attitude. I don't want our players to completely give up after leading 1:0 against Chievo and Bologna, I don't want our players to defend for 30 minutes a 1:1 draw at home against Fiorentina, I don't want our players to be losing 2:0 in Palermo and keep playing nonchalantly, bloodlessly, as if they're satisfied with the defeat.
Totally agree! That was the points I tried to make in the previous posts. This is not the Juve we used to see. I hope Ferrara do something to motivate the players, helping them re-discover the spirit of the old Juve.
 

Alen

Ѕenior Аdmin
Apr 2, 2007
54,000
With Del Piero and hopefully other injured players back we should not repeat these mistakes.
I know..... but will we have our team complete? :cry:

With more than 50m eur spent, it looks like our team still can't function at all when 2 of Del Piero- Sissoko- Chiellini aren't playing. It's November and Ale and Sissoko still can't recover. The moment they did, another injury hit them. Now Sissoko is out for November too. Imagine if the same happens to Ale :scared:
There will be no way for a comeback anymore.
 

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