[Serie A] JUVENTUS 2 - 3 Cagliari (01/31/09) (99 Viewers)

[Dostoevsky]

no, that is not true. i am just saying you can't blame him for his halftime speech when you did not hear it.

you could blame him if he did put de ceglie in while we are losing (because a defensive approach would obviously not help scoring the equalizer), but i did not see a mistake in his subs. if you can name one, that is proven to be a mistake and not based on assumptions, than please share your opinion with me.

I did not blame him for his halftime speech nor I have mentioned it ever because I really have no idea when he said.I said we were owned in the second half that can be just because of approach to it IMO and not players.

It drives me crazy when I see people say keeping Ranieri untouchable because he did the best he could.

I don't think we'd be adding defensive approach if we gave a chance to De Ceglie.It's what Ranieri tells him to do but a few times this season when he played there we got many crosses and he over runed their players.Mostly added a lot in our attack and not defense...something what Nedved can't do nowadays.His crosses,shots are weak and he's not fast hence no point playing him always no matter if he scored.

the other substitutions are debatable, because i for instance would have liked to see poulsen instead of marchisio, but since i trust ranieri to know better if poulsen is fit enough i will not blame him for that.

Why would you prefer Poulsen?In fact,I see the logic he did over here.Poulsen and Sissoko would add a lot in defense but not anything in attack.Not to mention Poulsen is still raw like Zanetti was so it would be a risk to play him.Instead of Marchisio?That's something I can't understand because he was our best midfielder over the past few weeks.He plays something like Aquilani so he adds a lot to our team unlike Poulsen.

yes, marchionni might have not delivered anything going forward, but just the running is more than others did yesterday. it does not take much to help the defense. when marchionni just runs with his man and the player with the ball does not pass to that player because he thinks he is marked, marchionni did his defensive job. no fuss about that. if everyone just ran with their man you would not have seen those counter attackes where some of their players were totally free. yes, it was also due to the offside trap, but you have to be aware, that the offside trap was not only our strength once, but it is also a tactic that helps you save your stamina/power. if you would play straight man marking all defenders would have to run much more and i don't know how fit our players are after all those games with more or less the same players ... i am not even speaking of the change in mind they would have had to do to play this tactic.

He was marking the one when we concided our first goal.He did run a lot...a lot more than some others but he added less than Nedved or Marchisio IMO.Playing Iaquinta there did not add anything to us because Iaquinta didn't even touch the ball.Yet again I don't blame Ranieri's sub because I'd do the same.But I don't understand why we didn't use him at all.

As I already said,our midfielders were everywhere and Ranieri tried to confuse Cagliari by playing Marchionni on the right,left and as AMC sometimes while Marchisio played as MR a few times and Nedved as MC.We didn't get anything out of that.

oh, trust me ... i can find many negative things ... but when i do not know a quick and reliable solution, i will not moarn about it. i think if there was an easy solution to our problems someone who did this job for a long time would chose this solution. can i clearly say, that if poulsen would have played, that our defense would have a better protection ? no, because i don't now his fitness condition...

I don't think he could help us much.Our right side was owned last night.Marchionni was everywhere so right side was opened for counter attacks where Cagliari took an advantage of it.Jeda destroyed it while moving from AMC to AMR and Mellberg was destroyed as well.They were outrunned by him and they had perfect counter attacks with no mistakes at all.Simply perfect.

i think when you do teach a tactic and formation in training you more or less are pretty static to use this one. i don't think that we have so many flexible players, that could play a totally different formation or tactic without training and playing with it more often.

Sadly,we can't change 4-4-2 because if we do I think we'd choke even more.Ranieri gotta change the approach to game and change some role.We clearly miss Camo to add creativity and help our attack.If we change it to 4-3-1-2 or something many of our players would be useless and we would not add much.Players are wrong though...I still don't support Nedved on the left and I still think Giovinco should play there when fit.If not I prefer De Ceglie all the way.Marcionni is terrible pretty much,we'd get much much more with Camo or someone and we must buy someone capable of replacing Camo next season and sell Marco.

nice to have an argument with you, without childish claims and insults =)

I never tend to inslut and I want to get reasonable answers.But some people can't realise it's Ranieri who makes mistakes sometimes.

There are two groups here I guess : Ranieri hates and Ranieri defenders.I tend to be in the middle while some people exaggerate bashing him but some exaggerate defending him and finding all availabe reasons to say it wasn't his fault at all.

 

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[Cronios]

Even if we dont precisely know whats happening in the training, how can one tell that CR has done the right choice, only because he has been there??
I mean, if the players that usually suck in a game, do usually suck in the training too, or even worse. Isnt this CR's fault?? Thats actually a double fault!
So he may actually is in more fault than you think Virtual.
You can only assume that the players CR calls to be our starters, do better in training, only because of your blind faith on CR. You assume that, not us!
I may assume that he actually picks the worst ones because he has a personal bias (Molinaro-DC), but i dont use argument, i only use facts!
Did you ever wondered, what if the man isnt as competitive as you think?

On the other hand, we only speak of the thing we know with certainty,
we do not live in a fantasy world, where the perfect coach does the perfect job in training and for no good reason, those players, fit and able for the job, massively under-perform...
In the real world out there, Neddy is that old, Marchio is that crippled, Molinaro is that limited and our defense is getting pawned by nobodies.
They may be perfect on the training, or in FM, but on the real world Jeda runs circles around them, just open your eyes and see that, you can!

Anyway he should know better, at this level, he should know better. The most important thing is the performance of our players on match days.
This what he is getting paid of, one way or the other, he should ought to have a back plan, esp against problems that are not a mystery to us and our opponents.
Every single coach, and well informed seria A spectator, knows of our weaknesses. When CR is going to think about them too?
When is he planning to do anything about that? Are we ever going to fix them?
Why cant he anticipate the problems we, who are not professionals are able to anticipate/predict/accuse?

I do personally think the problem is deeper than that, i dont surely blame CR for what happens to our team, i think that he is just a pawn. I don believe that he is just that stupid. I think that his hand is forced to insist on those players and that he is also force to praise them, to cover up someone else's choices and strategical mistakes... (he is maybe told that we are not going to buy any other wingbacks and he have to work with them)
Thats exactly why hired him. But since he is here, i expect him to make a proper use of the potential he has on hand. I don think that someone else is picking the formation for him.

 

[JCK]

I would like to know from Andy and Vinnie: What coach you would like to have instead of Ranieri?

Any other coach.

Or what other solutions they offer for this crisis....?[/QUOTE]

Kill Ranieri, Secco, Blanc, Gigli and Molinaro.

I think its dumb to call something like that a fact.

I am dumb.

 

[Amaurisimo]

I have no idea TBH. If it was up to me, I would have introduced one Poulsen/Tiago.

Of course that you don't have idea. You would rather trow in player fresh from injury without any playing time (Tiago) or 10 mins at max(Poulsen) than Marchisio who proved to be one of statically best midfield partners with Sissoko.
Until Zanetti got injured , in first 22 something minutes we played almost perfect football.

I say almost because on 1 single contra attack we conceded goal.

I'm sorry but Buffon got a 6 on vinmans ratings

Buffon did not save even single shot.

buffon was poor, no doubt about it, but it depends how you view it, there was not really much he could have done. But for me a goalkeeper is more than just someone who is expected to save. Tonight he should have been a leader and he completely failed, very disappointing

dead right!

To answer the poll, the players lost us the game. 2 of Ranieri's sub's were forced, and the only option for Marchionni was to bring on another forward to go for the win. Bringing on any1 else and he would be accused of not wanting 3 pts. He did nothing different in this game compared to the rest of the season in terms of tactics or player selections, therefore it was the players who lost us the match.

The defense was terrible. Chiellini included. Our offside trap failed on 2 of their goals, sending some1 in alone vs Buffon. Molinaro was the only player who did a decent job.

The midfield provided nothing, and was very disorganized, especially after Zanetti went off. Marchionni was drifting out to the left, Nedved in the middle, Momo was caught to high up the pitch at times, and Marchisio was not sure where he needed to be. Nedved played better than usual, but it wasn't anything noteworthy. As for Marchionni, I can't wait till Camo gets back.

Del Piero and Amauri were the only players who had decent games. Both worked hard and created chances single handedly, but they had no1 to link up with or play off.

Hopefully we iron out these issues b4 Chelsea or we are truly fucked.

I would add that Nedved , Momo, Molinaro and Amauri were best players ...
DP goes with the Chiellini , Grygera , Melberg in other section.

Slept right after the match and woke up just now... But I'm still feeling bitter about this loss...

Andy, Ranieri should take some of the blame for this loss, but you are really stupid to claim that he lost us this match... He put in Marchisio for Zanetti... Right call because Marchisio was playing well and should have made the starting lineup... then he put in Iaquinta for Marchi, again right call... Then he put in Grygera for Chiellini... No other choice there... In the course of the match the only time Ranieri could have done something wrong was at the HT team talk, which we have no idea what he said...

So who's to blame for the defeat? Global Warming
.

i can tell you, what went wrong: ranieri did just once follow the cool tactics of the forum users here...

the best thing would be to blame this awful ranieri for the loss, because there is no way the players that earn three times as much and don't give their all have anything to do with that ! perhaps some players are just fed up with their high wage, because i can clearly see, that the ones that earn the less (e.g. molinaro, marchisio) do give a fuck or two about the results ... and no ... alex, dribbling all the time instead of passing is not "giving all for the team".

with this bunch of lacklustre clowns you would even lose two a good serie b team ... emphazise on TEAM. it clear that we were no team in the last games, because if we played as team, there were not so many situations where the centre backs were left alone against the cagliari attackers.

to blame the half time speech is exactly what was expected from some here ... if you can not exactly name what ranieri did wrong, than we just invent something he must have done wrong. no way the players did wrong, it had to be a curse that ranieri cast over the team in the halftime.

Surely any manager that strictly plays a 4-4-2 formation with two of the worst fullbacks in a top European club and two of the worst wingers in the league has got to come under some criticizing./QUOTE]

why exactly is it that a 4 4 2 is a bad formation? Its not attacking enough? Its the defense that's the problem. Our tactics at the back aren't versatile enough, and the players are below par.

Last 2 games from beginning of second half we played with 3 strikers..

Tell me v1rtu4l,do you just blame our players to this result?

I tell you, I blame more on players, but also i blame CR. Grygera was so bad last time, that he had to be benched..So it was on Melberg to show his worth. Did he?

Sissoko gave away one of the silliest passes I have ever seen in my life. I would rate him 3 for the goal he scored other than that he did nothing, especially in the second half.

I bet if Tiago was next to Momo, you would give him 6


We actually haven't been that bad..We got all 3 goals on contra, and they were all individual mistakes.. We had 17 shots on goal, DP had 100% chance, Momo, Legro, IQ, Amauri...everyone..

Cagliari had 3 shots on goal, and 3 goals. Buffon had 0 saves

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Seriously, how the fuck do you concede two counter-attacks when you're up 2-1? Unbelievable. Whatever...

Forza Juve!

good question, and that's all on ranieri actually how do you play a defense that high(last defender was a few yards from the mid line) when you re leading at home. The second goal is really what bothered me the most, that goal should never ever be conceded. not to mention that Mellberg was to blame for all of the goals.

 

[Dostoevsky]

Mellberg is a very good back up CB.He should not play on the right because I don't think he can do a good job over there.Too slow and he should just stick to the center.

Grygera was pretty much terrible whole season lol so it's not like he had to bench him because he was bad over the past 2 weeks.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

all that in mind at 2-1 we could have still come out winners with better coaching, with better use of whats available to us vis-a-vis opposition i believe we had it in us to come out winners despite these limitations.

 

[v1rtu4l]

Why would you prefer Poulsen?In fact,I see the logic he did over here.Poulsen and Sissoko would add a lot in defense but not anything in attack.Not to mention Poulsen is still raw like Zanetti was so it would be a risk to play him.Instead of Marchisio?That's something I can't understand because he was our best midfielder over the past few weeks.He plays something like Aquilani so he adds a lot to our team unlike Poulsen.

as i already said in the match thread before the game started ... i just want us NOT TO LOSE and think (fitness aside) Poulsen would be of more help for the defense. he does not roam as much as sissoko or marchisio, so we could not be punished on the counter attack, because he is still there in front of our defenders and not like sissoko or marchisio somewhere in attacking positions.

i just hoped we can keep the defense more tight and in front we would get our chances ... good old cattenacio

He was marking the one when we concided our first goal.He did run a lot...a lot more than some others but he added less than Nedved or Marchisio IMO.Playing Iaquinta there did not add anything to us because Iaquinta didn't even touch the ball.Yet again I don't blame Ranieri's sub because I'd do the same.But I don't understand why we didn't use him at all.

yeah, marchionni was there but in this situations i am a bit biased, because i did live those situations by myself. when a player that is not supposed to do the defensive work is beaten by his man, i would not blame him. he tried and thats ok.

i really blame the defensive line, because why would marchionni have to mark that player anyways ? where the fuck was mellberg ? there were not 4 strikers (with that one that scored being the 5th) so every defender had one he marked and marco had to step in, NO ... someone just let the whole side wide open just for that cagliari redhead to run to the second post ... i strongly believe with correct assignment of defenders to attacks marchionni would not even have to run there ...

just look at the situation again http://www.d1g.com/video/show/?id=2590535
we were 4 !!!!! Players on the left against two players from them there ... still they got a cross in ...

first error, why 4 against 2 on the left, when others on the right side may walk freely

second error, if i am with 4 players against 2 and those two still can cross the ball in, you may really ask if football is the right sport for you ... what can the cagliari player do out there that demands so much attention ?

yeah cross ... a coach from me once said "what can the opponent do out there ? go to the opponent in the box. he can score. the winger can just try to bring a cross" and honestly, a tactical foul would have done wonders there ... just tackle him and they will get a meaningless freekick on the sideline, while we have time to reorganise

do to those 4 players of us that totally shifted to the left (without reason) everyone switched one position more to the left and so marchionni had to mark a man that should have been marked by mellberg. totally chicken defense i have to say

I don't think he could help us much.Our right side was owned last night.Marchionni was everywhere so right side was opened for counter attacks where Cagliari took an advantage of it.Jeda destroyed it while moving from AMC to AMR and Mellberg was destroyed as well.They were outrunned by him and they had perfect counter attacks with no mistakes at all.Simply perfect.

so marchisio was often enough on the righ side, when marchionni roamed ... so you saw that marchisios defensive skills did not prevent jeda to run riot there!

i just guess that poulsen would have given him a rough treatment before he even is 3 metres in our half ... but then again, remembering the games he played for us. i do miss the more physical approach i saw from poulsen, when he played for other teams.

Sadly,we can't change 4-4-2 because if we do I think we'd choke even more.Ranieri gotta change the approach to game and change some role.We clearly miss Camo to add creativity and help our attack.If we change it to 4-3-1-2 or something many of our players would be useless and we would not add much.Players are wrong though...I still don't support Nedved on the left and I still think Giovinco should play there when fit.If not I prefer De Ceglie all the way.Marcionni is terrible pretty much,we'd get much much more with Camo or someone and we must buy someone capable of replacing Camo next season and sell Marco.

i agree on all points here


and cronios ... i like to answer to you that i do not think that ranieri always does right or choses the right thing to do, but i trust that he has reasons for what he does ... not more or less ...

just like my opinion of george w. bush ... i don't hate him, i don't support him, but when you know where he is coming from, you can not be mad with him ... it is pretty obvious why he takes certain decisions ... understanding someone does not equal with thinking they are right.

if ranieri does field players, because they were good in training or fit his image of the player for that particular position, than i understand that ...

i would blame him, if i did not understand why he fields certain players ... e.g. if i did see many training sessions and saw that certain people sucked there, than i would ask myself if ranieri fields them, but since i don't watch training, i will not moarn. that is my way to handle it, your's may look different.

 

[DelpieroForLife]

We conceded two identical goals during one half... if that's not a coach fault I don't know what is.

 

[Bjerknes]

I would like to know from Andy and Vinnie: What coach you would like to have instead of Ranieri?
Or what other solutions they offer for this crisis....?

I don't know, but somebody who doesn't use this inane system that depends on having classy wingers who can consistently terrorize the opposition. The whole system is flawed and idiotic, so it needs to be revamped.

Ranieri is just copying what Capello did so he needs to be fired immediately.

Again, we should have just kept Deschamps, a better coach than this loser.

 

[dao_nq]

I blame most on CR for this loss. Because why? Because when you take 2-1 lead, and you must know your opponent are really fast in counter-attack, we should never let the defense so high and use so much offside trap. Just look at the second goal of Cagliari, you'll understand me. CR picked some wrong players, set the wrong tactics for the defense and almost had no clues for the attack.

Every single team in Serie A knows we use offside trap so often, and they know that our CBs except Chiellini were slow; and they even know that we depend too much on old Nedved, Amauri in attack. For fuck sake, CR should understand that we should play with great concentration, tight defense and formation, use youngsters like Gio. CR may say he's still young and lack of experience, but what about last season, is CR so dump or does he have personal problem with Gio that he can't use Gio like Empoli's coach did. You answer that, either way it's he to blame.

I want CR to be sacked asap !

 

[Sadomin]

I don't know, but somebody who doesn't use this inane system that depends on having classy wingers who can consistently terrorize the opposition. The whole system is flawed and idiotic, so it needs to be revamped.

Ranieri is just copying what Capello did so he needs to be fired immediately.

Again, we should have just kept Deschamps, a better coach than this loser.

Deschamps leaving was a choice of his own, as he has admitted.

 

[Bjerknes]

Deschamps leaving was a choice of his own, as he has admitted.

Yeah, through our idiocy. The idiots at the helm didn't allow him to do what he wanted to do, so now we have the yes man Mr. Bean in charge.

 

[Cronios]

Andy why do you call CR as Mr Bean? The do both smile a lot, but in the rare cases MR Bean talks, he actually has smth to say, unlike CR...

One is a comedian and the other one is just ...tragic...

 

[Sadomin]

Don't get carried away now. We're still 2nd/3rd and topped the CL group of death. I'll make definite statements like that after the Chelsea encounters.

 

[Bjerknes]

Andy why do you call CR as Mr Bean? The do both smile a lot, but in the rare cases MR Bean talks, he actually has smth to say, unlike CR...

One is a comedian and the other one is just ...tragic...

That's true.

I prefer Mr. Bean over Ranieri as well.

 

[Amaurisimo]

Inter Torino 1:1


Yeah babe!!!!!

 

[Dostoevsky]

It makes it even worse now.

 

[Bjerknes]

Inter Torino 1:1


Yeah babe!!!!!

Yeah, Inter has another point to our zero points this weekend. Lets celebrate.



You're so much like your idol Mr. Bean.

 

[Dostoevsky]

We have a chance but it will be damn hard.We will have to eat Inter and everyone else I guess.