[Serie A] JUVENTUS 2-2 Atalanta [July 11th, 2020] (2 Viewers)

vote


  • Total voters
    30
  • Poll closed .
Apr 17, 2013
2,569
That part has been explained too. Just because you buy Ronaldo or Messi doesn't guarantee a success in the CL. You can see that with us or Barcelona who are struggling for years.
On the other hand you have PSG and City who have spent a billion dollars on transfers and didn't even make it to the semis.
Simply put, there's no defined way to win the CL. If money could fix it there are clubs in Europe ready to pay any price.
Assuming we won't win the CL with Ronaldo in our ranks would you say it was a mistake to get him? Because I would not. I enjoy every game with him wearing our shirt.
Agree, but I said he came to help us win it, not automatically win it. The problem is that we are moving away from this objective, between elimination last year against Ajax and our ridiculous performance against a team as Lyon. We have invested heavily and we are regressing, there must be a problem somewhere within the club that the team who was eliminated against Real Madrid is better than the one that has Ronaldo in its line-up.

We signed him when Allegri was coach though.

Like it or not if you sign a coach like Sarri it's the start of a process. You'd expect to see considerably better in year 2 then 3. Stumbling over the line it's not surprising, but only winning the scudetto would be acceptable for this season.

So Atalanta played better than us, they're in better shape and won 9 games in a row. Sometimes you just have to take it on the chin when your opponent looks more cohesive and fitter, and grind out the result you need.
9 months that Sarri is here if someone is able to tell me the evolution of our gameplay between him and Allegri I want him to explain me. Our problems remain the same:
- positioning of Dybala
- our asthmatic MF is dull
- Ronaldo doesn't have enough support in attack
- our fullback are useless

With all these points, I see only a continuity of the Allegri project, with the same deficiencies, which goes into the wall.
 

JuveJay

Very Stable Genius
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
62,433
Agree, but I said he came to help us win it, not automatically win it. The problem is that we are moving away from this objective, between elimination last year against Ajax and our ridiculous performance against a team as Lyon. We have invested heavily and we are regressing, there must be a problem somewhere within the club that the team was eliminated by Real Madrid is better than the one that has Ronaldo in its line-up.



9 months that Sarri is here if someone is able to tell me the evolution of our gameplay between him and Allegri I want him to explain me. Our problems remain the same:
- positioning of Dybala
- our asthmatic MF is dull
- Ronaldo doesn't have enough support in attack
- our fullback are useless

With all these points, I see only a continuity of the Allegri project, with the same deficiencies, which goes into the wall.
You think Ronaldo and Dybala are a problem? There are obvious positional issues but they are carrying all of the attacking load.

Fullbacks and midfield are not good enough because...they're individually not good enough, or some/many of them have not been in good condition for large spells of the season...Khedria, Pjanic, Rabiot, Ramsey. That leaves us with Bentancur and a workhorse Matuidi. But does this fall on Sarri? I think we know the recruitment team take most of this responsibility, we seem to like gambling on players being fit. Young legs are definitely required in both areas.

I don't really know how we can expect a system that requires an energetic midfield to work with these players.
 
Last edited:

Boksic

Senior Member
May 11, 2005
9,608
Sarri has lost the right to be given more time. If we had improved throughout the season, I could see an argument but we have gone backwards (barring an excellent performance at home v Inter).

We barely create any chances. Even thinking back to the games we have played post lockdown where we have supposedly played better, how many chances have we created in the penalty box? It is not sustainable to think you can play every game and score from 25 yards or get a penalty.

- - - Updated - - -

You can't luckily win a league title, it's impossible.

I agree that we're about 6 or 7 corner or set piece goals light though.
I agree you can't luckily get to top of a league. But to some extent we have been lucky that the title challengers have had bad seasons. If it was Napoli or Roma of a few years ago we would be in 2nd place.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
62,237
Sarri has lost the right to be given more time. If we had improved throughout the season, I could see an argument but we have gone backwards (barring an excellent performance at home v Inter).

We barely create any chances. Even thinking back to the games we have played post lockdown where we have supposedly played better, how many chances have we created in the penalty box? It is not sustainable to think you can play every game and score from 25 yards or get a penalty.

- - - Updated - - -



I agree you can't luckily get to top of a league. But to some extent we have been lucky that the title challengers have had bad seasons. If it was Napoli or Roma of a few years ago we would be in 2nd place.
Or maybe we would rise up to the challenge, just no way of knowing, it's as ridiculous to overrate this team as it is to underrate it.
 

Boksic

Senior Member
May 11, 2005
9,608
Or maybe we would rise up to the challenge, just no way of knowing, it's as ridiculous to overrate this team as it is to underrate it.
Possibly. But we all we can do is judge our team based on it's performances. Using the lack of challenge as an excuse seems a bit generous, we were playing badly when Lazio were a credible contender. We were also terrible v Lyon.

At some point we need to evaluate the team regardless whether there is a challenge or not. There is no doubt the performances are poor. We create very little and let in chances at the back. We can't use the challenge of other teams to be the catalyst for our own success.
 

pavelnel

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2006
1,158
I have just read that Atalanta's first goal was preceded by their relatively undisturbed ball control for more than 8 minutes...
It looked bad on TV and now reading about that it sounds horrible.
Juve players looked amateurish during this period.
Should never happen again.
 

JCK

Biased
May 11, 2004
114,074
I have just read that Atalanta's first goal was preceded by their relatively undisturbed ball control for more than 8 minutes...
It looked bad on TV and now reading about that it sounds horrible.
Juve players looked amateurish during this period.
Should never happen again.
Eight minutes the majority of which in our half
 

campionesidd

Senior Member
Mar 16, 2013
10,336
Gasperini: "Penalties? This is the rule, there is a 100% penalty but this rule makes no sense and it only exists in Italy. But nothing to say, this time it's against us, sometimes it is in our favor. Finally, this is the regulations."
And this guy is considered rude and arrogant because his teams don't stop attacking after 2-0?
 

MrMonkey

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2017
1,288
Sarri has lost the right to be given more time. If we had improved throughout the season, I could see an argument but we have gone backwards (barring an excellent performance at home v Inter).We barely create any chances.

But we all we can do is judge our team based on it's performances. Using the lack of challenge as an excuse seems a bit generous, we were playing badly when Lazio were a credible contender. We were also terrible v Lyon.

At some point we need to evaluate the team regardless whether there is a challenge or not. There is no doubt the performances are poor. We create very little and let in chances at the back. We can't use the challenge of other teams to be the catalyst for our own success.
All of the above so true and in agreement my friend! Going by my sig you can see I was a big fan of getting this supposedly offensive genius Sarri here. Though by below stats no doubt Max's 5 years managing >>> Sarri's almost 1 season PRESENTLY.

2019-20 Goal Diff +35 (67-32) Points 76 only 32 matches
2018-19 Goal Diff +40 (70-30) Points 87
2017-18 Goal Diff +62 (86-24) Points 95
2016-17 Goal Diff +50 (77-27) Points 91
2015-16 Goal Diff +48 (72-24) Points 87
2014-15 Goal Diff +55 (75-20) Points 91

Sarri's Juve could still reach 90+ points but already more goals allowed than any of Max's 5 squads. And that doesn't bother me because I thought this team could reach 90 goals scored. Atalanta has 87 with Goal Diff of 46 and only match seen by me was yesterday's, but told me best team in league this season.

Anyone here who has watched Juve's game-in-game-out I think would have to agree the soccer Gods have been in Sarri's corner. Most of the breaks have gone his way. And yes Boksic there has been no improvement in their play as the season has progressed. Just back and forth with individual performances winning matches.
 

Mokku

Senior Member
Apr 17, 2019
703
Allegri had a number of boss players from back to front of the team, magnificent players in fact and his final season showed us clearly that the squad needed an overhaul. Sarri has inherited a few world class players and a bunch of mediocrity which he has to implement his system with. In comparison, Conte has got everyone he asked for in his system and is far behind us. We are on course to take the league with flipping Cuadrado as right back because we have nobody else, slow midfielders and an injured Ramsey as the only B2B to somehow play Sarri's Napoli style. Let him have some Sarri style players then by all means, lay into him if he fails.

The stats are all out of context, Sarri's Napoli were the only team to be so close to taking the scudetto from us and that team maybe finishes with more points than us this year, better goal difference and all so what does that mean? Sarri Napoli better than Sarri Juve?
 

JuveJay

Very Stable Genius
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
62,433
All of the above so true and in agreement my friend! Going by my sig you can see I was a big fan of getting this supposedly offensive genius Sarri here. Though by below stats no doubt Max's 5 years managing >>> Sarri's almost 1 season PRESENTLY.

2019-20 Goal Diff +35 (67-32) Points 76 only 32 matches
2018-19 Goal Diff +40 (70-30) Points 87
2017-18 Goal Diff +62 (86-24) Points 95
2016-17 Goal Diff +50 (77-27) Points 91
2015-16 Goal Diff +48 (72-24) Points 87
2014-15 Goal Diff +55 (75-20) Points 91

Sarri's Juve could still reach 90+ points but already more goals allowed than any of Max's 5 squads. And that doesn't bother me because I thought this team could reach 90 goals scored. Atalanta has 87 with Goal Diff of 46 and only match seen by me was yesterday's, but told me best team in league this season.

Anyone here who has watched Juve's game-in-game-out I think would have to agree the soccer Gods have been in Sarri's corner. Most of the breaks have gone his way. And yes Boksic there has been no improvement in their play as the season has progressed. Just back and forth with individual performances winning matches.
Goals against are probably to be expected:

- De Ligt, young defender adjusting to the league
- new handball law and bs penalties (10 against us so far, versus 4 in 2018-19)
- Chiellini injured for large part of the season. He's not just our captain but defensive leader. To lose Demiral also was another blow.

We're about where I'd expect with De Ligt - Bonucci, even if an established Allegri was coach.

Having Barzagli, Chiellini, Bonucci, Lichtsteiner and prime Alex Sandro is better than what we have now.
 
Last edited:

MrMonkey

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2017
1,288
Mokku, I agree with you that management could have given him better players to have at hand and presently don't want Sarri canned. That said do you not agree lady luck has been on Sarri's side this season? Never rant about wanting a manager fired until you give me a name(s) of who the replacement will be?

The one thing about Sarri's coaching is that I haven't seen much of individual players being upset with him at times like was the issue with Max. I like that Sarri seems to have this TEAM TOGETHER. The league title appears certain but with 3 weeks to prepare for an inferior Lyon, I expect Juve to advance. If not and CR7 still returns, than I'm fine seeing Sarri given another year to see if his style just needed more time with better personnel.
 

Karim30

Senior Member
May 6, 2012
1,356
So he's come up the hard way? How is he going to win a notable trophy when he's managing in the lower leagues for 20 years? Gasperini has also won nothing, he's 62. You made the comparison with Guardiola, which is ridiculous for many reasons. Klopp took over as Liverpool boss in October 2015 and won his first trophy in May 2019. But he is an extremely popular person and played (at times brainless) attacking football, so the majority of fans stuck with him. Sarri is not a likeable character, but he doesn't care about being a champion of the people.

The only team other than Chelsea (won the EL in one season) where Sarri could have won anything was directly facing our Juventus, the most dominant domestic side in history.

I don't really feel like I'm enough of a fan of Sarri to say that he is or was my ideal choice, not at all, but we took on a project coach knowing full well that it would take some time to work out. If the club rip it up after one season then they showed their stupidity by hiring him in the first place.

Considering the season has been split in two, and the difficulties that all teams face in playing these games close together, you can forget the script and putting the finished article on the pitch. You can't play high tempo, pressing football with a squad running at half speed. We need to manage a game at a time, get over the finish line and see where that leaves us for the CL.

I understand that the average football fan has the patience of a 6 week old puppy, but I'd like to think the club would take into account a settling-in period, especially in the circumstances. I think we're ran well enough for that. It could be that Sarri's football cannot be transposed across the standard Juventus way, or maybe it can't at any really big club. I have serious doubts myself that it can be done, because I think it's always that bit harder to do it whilst having the pressure to constantly win games and trophies. But if we have to find that out whilst winning another scudetto then I can put up with this grave hardship.
I believe you might enjoy this read as much as I did
https://www.juvefc.com/sarri-of-all-people/
 

kappa96

Senior Member
Jun 20, 2018
2,953
All of the above so true and in agreement my friend! Going by my sig you can see I was a big fan of getting this supposedly offensive genius Sarri here. Though by below stats no doubt Max's 5 years managing >>> Sarri's almost 1 season PRESENTLY.

2019-20 Goal Diff +35 (67-32) Points 76 only 32 matches
2018-19 Goal Diff +40 (70-30) Points 87
2017-18 Goal Diff +62 (86-24) Points 95
2016-17 Goal Diff +50 (77-27) Points 91
2015-16 Goal Diff +48 (72-24) Points 87
2014-15 Goal Diff +55 (75-20) Points 91

Sarri's Juve could still reach 90+ points but already more goals allowed than any of Max's 5 squads. And that doesn't bother me because I thought this team could reach 90 goals scored. Atalanta has 87 with Goal Diff of 46 and only match seen by me was yesterday's, but told me best team in league this season.

Anyone here who has watched Juve's game-in-game-out I think would have to agree the soccer Gods have been in Sarri's corner. Most of the breaks have gone his way. And yes Boksic there has been no improvement in their play as the season has progressed. Just back and forth with individual performances winning matches.
You overrated them bro. The best team this season is the one that wins Seria A.
Having a good form at the moment doesn't equate the better team overall.
 

ladstone

Junior Member
Oct 31, 2011
77
Goals against are probably to be expected:

- De Ligt, young defender adjusting to the league
- new handball law and bs penalties (10 against us so far, versus 4 in 2018-19)
- Chiellini injured for large part of the season. He's not just our captain but defensive leader. To lose Demiral also was another blow.

We're about where I'd expect with De Ligt - Bonucci, even if an established Allegri was coach.

Having Barzagli, Chiellini, Bonucci, Lichtsteiner and prime Alex Sandro is better than what we have now.
there are 8 handball penalties in the league, not 10.
 

MrMonkey

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2017
1,288
I believe you might enjoy this read as much as I did
I like this part of the read.

Agnelli’s project is clear and its well known that he is trying to expand the Juventus brand and perhaps the most obvious thing in this regard is the evolution in the club’s logo, but off-field activities are not enough for this purpose. Juventus need to attract new fans (‘customers’) to maximize the brand growth, and to increase their popularity among the Millennials. Juve have to play another brand of football: proactive and attacking; there were not many coaches who could have provided that, and without a doubt the best one at the time was Pep Guardiola, but he was under contract with Manchester City and could not be recruited. So there are two paths ahead, one is to postpone the big change and to hire a coach with the same current defensive style until Pep Guardiola is available; Another way is to move on to another coach with the same [attacking] style.

Makes perfect sense. You don't get CR7 to play passively.
:agnelli::baus:
 

rainhard

Senior Member
May 5, 2004
1,894
The interesting fact is we break Atalanta 11 streak win in all competition with this draw, their players are absolutely on top form
So it is a steal for us, a very important point

No one will hype Atalanta when they beaten by Dinamo Zagreb 4-0, lost at home by Shaktar 1-2
The real turn back for them mentally is when they draw Man City 1-1, Jesus help them by not score from PK

But I dont think they have what it takes to past PSG in UCL
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 2)