Second Round (1 Viewer)

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
#41
Not that I expect the nepotist bunch of the Dutch FA to listen to me but here's why Marco van Basten needs to go:

  • Playing football the Dutch way means allowing the right and left backs to go forward, down the flank. Instead, Van Basten insists on keeping them behind, with one central defender moving up the midfield when in possession. This tactic has proven itself to be disfunctional because it directs the play through the centre of the pitch, effectively making the flanks useless. This isn't 1974 or 1998, our wingers need back-up, but aren't receiving any.
  • The midfield is consistently defending, which is what happens when a central defender moves up the pitch and a midfielder has been ordered to take his place. With the flank backs staying behind, it creates two distinctly seperate units on the pitch: defence and midfield. Midfield is then forced to defend because smart players like Riquelme or Tevez would otherwise play in between the two units and take painful advantage. Midfield and defence used to flow over into each other and with the likes of Sneyder and Van der Vaart or even Landzaat combined with more defensive strength in Cocu, Maduro or (in the future) Schaars should make this well possible. The gap between different units has allowed both the Ivory Coast and Argentina to play us around the pitch.
  • I don't know how he's done it, but Van Basten has managed to make the attack our most soar point. We don't score goals. Our wingers don't have back-up and we need a forward that can hold the ball if we keep playing like this. Van Nistelrooy doesn't do that, neither does Makaay who was dropped for that reason and Kuyt is quite simply Belgian League material. That makes dropping Huntelaar from the squad unforgivable. Again the phenomenon of seperate units comes back with a consistently defending midfield. The long-ball or cross-balls towards Arjen Robben or Robin van Persie might be useful every once in a while, but we've been relying on them. In the meantime said players are too young to be able to make all the correct calls at all the correct times. With Van Nistelrooy being far from a leader and experienced midfielders like Cocu playing somewhere in defence: the guidance up front is completely gone. Dare I say it: keep playing like this and we will need Patrick Kluivert.

So there you have it: Van Basten's style of play has quite simply vastly more negatives than positives, yet he swears by it. It's time for a change of coach and I suggest bringing Rijkaard back, assuming he wants the job. Otherwise keep an eye open for Co Adriaanse.
 

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Byrone

Peen Meister
Dec 19, 2005
30,778
#44
Erik said:
I remember, thanks. Say, you wouldn't happen to be in a position to employ people, would you? Cause I wouldn't mind a boss like you :D
I do actually,but im on the verge of losing my marbles & quitting.once i have my import/export business running smoothly,we'll talk business seriously.:D

Not shite Erik im serious,ill keep u posted.
 

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
#45
Byrone said:
I do actually,but im on the verge of losing my marbles & quitting.once i have my import/export business running smoothly,we'll talk business seriously.:D

Not shite Erik im serious,ill keep u posted.
Really? Your own business? I have studied International Trade on a College and our final project was to start our own (ficticious of course) business. Waaaayyy too much complicated administration work involved for me... :D

I'm impressed!
 

Dominic

Senior Member
Jan 30, 2004
16,692
#46
I fully agree Erik, but the squadmaterial is simply below standard. Players like Kuyt, Mathijssen, Sneijder, Van Bronkhorst and Kuyt will never be good enough. Add to that Van Basten destroyed Van Bommel, the only decent Dutch midfielder. VDV is never fit, Cocu couldn't keep up anymore, so he could be added to the not good enough list also nowadays. Robben is an ass, he's so annoying and continuesly makes such poor decisions. I would not be surprised if Robben didn't develop anymore in the years to come. Also, Van Basten stuborness is also extremely annoying: Once he has some crazy idea (read; Sneijder, Kuyt) he always sticks to it, even though it obviously isn't working. This 4-3-3 madness is also getting on my nerves.

Oh well, these high hopes on this Dutch team, were crazy anyway. This team is average at best.

Kuyt :howler:.
 

Byrone

Peen Meister
Dec 19, 2005
30,778
#47
Erik said:
Really? Your own business? I have studied International Trade on a College and our final project was to start our own (ficticious of course) business. Waaaayyy too much complicated administration work involved for me... :D

I'm impressed!
Well at the moment i work for a financial firm,but its rather stressful nowadays.Yeah its small time at the moment,but ive been putting alot of time into it & ive been getting alot of business.its growing & things are starting to grow,so ill let u know.

Speaking of admin,it just puts me in a foul mood:depressed but thats why i love the words delegation & seceratary.:D
 

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
#49
What now? :D

Dominic said:
I fully agree Erik, but the squadmaterial is simply below standard. Players like Kuyt, Mathijssen, Sneijder, Van Bronkhorst and Kuyt will never be good enough. Add to that Van Basten destroyed Van Bommel, the only decent Dutch midfielder. VDV is never fit, Cocu couldn't keep up anymore, so he could be added to the not good enough list also nowadays. Robben is an ass, he's so annoying and continuesly makes such poor decisions. I would not be surprised if Robben didn't develop anymore in the years to come. Also, Van Basten stuborness is also extremely annoying: Once he has some crazy idea (read; Sneijder, Kuyt) he always sticks to it, even though it obviously isn't working. This 4-3-3 madness is also getting on my nerves.

Oh well, these high hopes on this Dutch team, were crazy anyway. This team is average at best.

Kuyt :howler:.
At least Mathijssen, Sneijder and Van Bronckhorst are the best we have. Picking Kuyt over Huntelaar and ignoring Van Bommel because 'you don't like him' (oh ffs what is this, Van Basten? Kindergarten?) is just plain stupid.

Agreed on Robben. He's reminding me of Van der Meyde. We won't see much more of him I don't think. Also: he really really really is annoying, as you said. I hate diving primadonnas.

4-3-3 is acceptable, but not the way Van Basten plays it. It makes no sense.

We need someone else, someone who recognises Van Bommel's excellence and makes the midfield all about him. Which is why Rijkaard would be perfect.

Not that he would want the job, I don't think. Why substitute a gorgeous Barcelona side with an average Dutch national team...
 

mnementh

Senior Member
Jun 5, 2005
2,122
#50
Erik said:
Davids would've had 5 red cards throughout the tournament and Seedorf and Makaay have never, and I repeat: NEVER performed in the national team.
even if that's true, so what. Roy Makaay plays for Bayern FFS.... he scores a lot , and this could have been his WC. Same for Seedorf who had a great year... when you need those shots from nowhere or do something creative he could have been the right guy. Same for Davids who would have given the team some energy, some livelyness, because Holland really played badly. btw, holland only played 4 matches, so if Davids had 5 red cards, this means that Holland will have won the WC ;)
 

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
#51
mnementh said:
even if that's true, so what. Roy Makaay plays for Bayern FFS.... he scores a lot , and this could have been his WC. Same for Seedorf who had a great year... when you need those shots from nowhere or do something creative he could have been the right guy. Same for Davids who would have given the team some energy, some livelyness, because Holland really played badly. btw, holland only played 4 matches, so if Davids had 5 red cards, this means that Holland will have won the WC ;)
Seedorf and Makaay are excellent club players. However, at the national team they keep choking. You would have to be seriously stupid to keep calling them up.

Davids is a different story, highly debatable.

As for five red cards: ask Graham Poll.
 

mnementh

Senior Member
Jun 5, 2005
2,122
#52
I don't believe in the theory of not playing well for the NT or choking. Even if you didn't play well in the past, it means nothing of the future. You need to judge by the current form and that's it.

As for five red cards: ask Graham Poll.
:D
 

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
#53
mnementh said:
I don't believe in the theory of not playing well for the NT or choking. Even if you didn't play well in the past, it means nothing of the future. You need to judge by the current form and that's it.
Seedorf was better for Milan and Real Madrid in the past: but he still humongously underperfomed in the national team. Same goes for Makaay. So if their current form is worse: wouldn't you agree it's (as usual, perhaps even more so) highly unlikely they would succeed this time?
 

northbank

Junior Member
Mar 22, 2006
232
#54
What did you dutch fans think of VanPersie? best dutch player of the tournament in my opinion, but I'm probably biased.

I'm not sure why you are calling for VanBommel either; he is rubbish (IMO).
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,185
#57
Erik said:
Agreed. Van Persie has a future, unlike Robben. He lacks a spine.
Oh come on. Robben already had a great season had Chelsea, what did Van Persie ever show? Awesome that he gets to play three good games a season, but that's not going to be enough. To make matters even worse he's such a prick, although he's obviously not half as bad as people make him out to be.
 

ZhiXin

Senior Member
Oct 1, 2004
10,321
#58
IMO van Persie needs to have more meat in him, he seems so lightweight.

As for Makaay, he vanished in the Bayern against Juventus game and subsequent big games, and this has always happened. No point of including him in
 

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
#59
Seven said:
Oh come on. Robben already had a great season had Chelsea, what did Van Persie ever show? Awesome that he gets to play three good games a season, but that's not going to be enough. To make matters even worse he's such a prick, although he's obviously not half as bad as people make him out to be.
Robben is unlikely to develop any further. Van der Meyde had a great season before he imploded too: they both have the same character issues. The diving is just a sign of that.

As for Van Persie: he has balls and has been through enough sh*t at Feyenoord to be able to take a hit and come back flying.

Like Inter, Robben peaked early. Van Persie is showing gradual but unstoppable progress.
 

northbank

Junior Member
Mar 22, 2006
232
#60
Seven said:
Oh come on. Robben already had a great season had Chelsea, what did Van Persie ever show? Awesome that he gets to play three good games a season, but that's not going to be enough. To make matters even worse he's such a prick, although he's obviously not half as bad as people make him out to be.
Robben had quite an ordinary season actually; the one before he was much better.

VanPersie hit 8 goals in 12 games (or something like that anyway) before an injury forced him out of the team for a long period.
 

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