Sebastian Giovinco (60 Viewers)

[icemaη]

Marchisio has done more for Juve in the same time than Giovinco has. Now you can say that Giovinco didn't get his chances which might be true. But when Marchisio got his chance, he grabbed it with both hands, while Giovinco blew hot and cold.

Its not actually fair to compare them based on abilities because both play different roles but in terms of usefulness to the team so far, Marchisio>Gio.

 

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[Bjerknes]

Bolded < I knew it somebody was going to mention that 20 min he played against chelsea and how he skinned both Ashly cole and boswinga. But if you don't remeber very well, in that match marhisio outshined all of the chelsea midfield, he had no problem playing against ballack and lampard, and gave them a good run for their money. he was very calm and decisive. In 10 years when gio is still the ok player he is and will be, somebody will come and tell me, yeah but don't you remember 11 years ago when he did this and that against chelsea. since that match Gio has just been the average inconsistent player and only was able to shine in few minutes, while marchisio had many MOM performances

P.S Hey Andy, HOW ABOUT THEM LIONS

Yeah well the majority disagree with you about that match.

http://www.juventuz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27178&page=46&highlight=Chelsea

And what many MOM matches are you talking about? Two? When Poulsen was playing?

 

[Bjerknes]

Aquilani was supposed to be a world class player, but unfortunately things didn't work out for him. He had the potential, but after all those injury I doubt it he will ever reach what he was supossed to do. I disagree totally regarding D'Agostino, who is a pirlo wanna be. Defensively Marhsio is slightly better than him. Offensively D'Ago is better specially distributing passes, this is not because Marchisio is not good enough, but because we don't need to run our offense through Marchisio if we have Diego, Camo, and Alex doing the job.

NO, compare the players skill to skill not based on what Juve need, but what they are. You know, as in actually rating a player correctly.

 

[Bjerknes]

Marchisio has done more for Juve in the same time than Giovinco has. Now you can say that Giovinco didn't get his chances which might be true. But when Marchisio got his chance, he grabbed it with both hands, while Giovinco blew hot and cold.

Its not actually fair to compare them based on abilities because both play different roles but in terms of usefulness to the team so far, Marchisio>Gio.

Oh yeah, well that's easy to say, considering Seba has only had half of the appearances Marchisio has had for Juventus.

Come on, mathematics is the universal language.

 

[Ahmed]

NO, compare the players skill to skill not based on what Juve need, but what they are. You know, as in actually rating a player correctly.

if skills was the bottom lone for rating a player, then Quaresma is the best player in the world

 

[Bjerknes]

if skills was the bottom lone for rating a player, then Quaresma is the best player in the world

Okay, so how do you rate starlets that have no stats since they're young? Astrology?

Some great talents are busts but so are many proven stars.

 

[Delle Alpi]

Oh yeah, well that's easy to say, considering Seba has only had half of the appearances Marchisio has had for Juventus.

Come on, mathematics is the universal language.

He got many chances but most of the time he failed to impress, on the other hand Marchisio when given his chnaces was able to book his place starting 11 and proved his worth and still improving. When Marchisio is back. he will definitely gradually get his starting 11 position back

Yeah well the majority disagree with you about that match.

http://www.juventuz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27178&page=46&highlight=Chelsea

And what many MOM matches are you talking about? Two? When Poulsen was playing?

Well, the majority over here like to over rate gio,and that match if you go back and watch it again, Marchiusio was a better player. He was so effective doing his tactical job and calm against a very highly rated Chlesea Midfield. We played that match without sissoko and Camo, but we didn't allow chelsea to bully us or win the midfield battle.

if skills was the bottom lone for rating a player, then Quaresma is the best player in the world

 

[Bjerknes]

Well, the majority over here like to over rate gio,and that match if you go back and watch it again, Marchiusio was a better player. He was so effective doing his tactical job and calm against a very highly rated Chlesea Midfield. We played that match without sissoko and Camo, but we didn't allow chelsea to bully us or win the midfield battle.

Well, Tiago was a beast in that match, too. Just so you know.

Your opinion was in the minority regarding Marchisio being the better player.

But saying Marchisio was a better player is your opinion and you're entitled to it.

 

[Ahmed]

Okay, so how do you rate starlets that have no stats since they're young? Astrology?

Some great talents are busts but so are many proven stars.

like one always does, by watching them play...Seba was highly rated due to his superb performances for the U21 side...it was clear since then that the kid was a bit special...as for Marchi, he'd been starting for Juve since the Serie B days.

 

[Bjerknes]

like one always does, by watching them play...Seba was highly rated due to his superb performances for the U21 side...it was clear since then that the kid was a bit special...as for Marchi, he'd been starting for Juve since the Serie B days.

This post lacks understanding of tactics, formations, the players we have had in said positions, the coaches we have had, and the overall mentality this club has followed for over a decade. Marchisio played because we had nobody else, while Seba was behind two greats in Del Piero and Nedved, plus Ranieri wanted a hard running Juve.

Can't use this as justification for a player's talent.

 

[Ahmed]

This post lacks understanding of tactics, formations, the players we have had in said positions, the coaches we have had, and the overall mentality this club has followed for over a decade. Marchisio played because we had nobody else, while Seba was behind two greats in Del Piero and Nedved, plus Ranieri wanted a hard running Juve.

eh? the point was that we saw Marchisio since the Serie B days, not that "because he started for us in Serie B, therefore he's a WC player."

 

[Delle Alpi]

Well, Tiago was a beast in that match, too. Just so you know.

Your opinion was in the minority regarding Marchisio being the better player.

But saying Marchisio was a better player is your opinion and you're entitled to it.

The kid was superb for that 20 min, but after this match he was given many opportunities and wasn't able to repeat the performance on a consistent basis. Tiago was good, but i still believe he will do a better job as ballet dancer, tiago from the look of it he has no passion niether the heart and always afraid to mix it up. Also you can't judge a player based on 20 minutes or couple of matches or youtube videos. I'll give it to him he was superbwhen he came in against chelsea, and yeah he run at their defense and skinned both ashly cole and bosingwa, hallelujah. Compare the way our attack function on the right side and the way camo cuts in and out effectively, and always delivering those deadly passes/cross. While the other side is just plain dead, the kid has a problem making the right decision and get himself into akward positions. He need to think faster and don't wait until there are 3 players covering him

 

[Bjerknes]

eh? the point was that we saw Marchisio since the Serie B days, not that "because he started for us in Serie B, therefore he's a WC player."

It appears that you were defending Marchisio because he's had more appearances than Seba. You said that if we only used skill to rate a player, we'd end up with a Quaresma, and then you commented on how many times Marco has played. I'm not following what you're trying to say, or what you're trying to prove with your comments.

Basing someone's talent on appearances is one of the last things a scout would do. It would basically destroy a scout's job.

 

[Ahmed]

It appears that you were defending Marchisio because he's had more appearances than Seba. You said that if we only used skill to rate a player, we'd end up with a Quaresma, and then you commented on how many times Marco has played. I'm not following what you're trying to say, or what you're trying to prove with your comments.

Basing someone's talent on appearances is one of the last things a scout would do. It would basically destroy a scout's job.

err no, my point was that you can get a feel of how good a young player, or any player for that matter, is by watching them play...I never mentioned their appearances for Juve at all.

 

[Bjerknes]

The kid was superb for that 20 min, but after this match he was given many opportunities and wasn't able to repeat the performance on a consistent basis. Tiago was good, but i still believe he will do a better job as ballet dancer, tiago from the look of it he has no passion niether the heart and always afraid to mix it up. Also you can't judge a player based on 20 minutes or couple of matches or youtube videos. I'll give it to him he was superbwhen he came in against chelsea, and yeah he run at their defense and skinned both ashly cole and bosingwa, hallelujah. Compare the way our attack function on the right side and the way camo cuts in and out effectively, and always delivering those deadly passes/cross. While the other side is just plain dead, the kid has a problem making the right decision and get himself into akward positions. He need to think faster and don't wait until there are 3 players covering him

Ah yes, we are only basing our praise for Seba on YouTube videos and the like. You are correct, because we never watch Juve or Azzurrini matches. Touche.

And yes Tiago is totally ballet. Have not heard that one before. Good work.

Seba definitely needs to do better and I would not rule him out yet.

 

[Bjerknes]

err no, my point was that you can get a feel of how good a young player, or any player for that matter, is by watching them play...I never mentioned their appearances for Juve at all.

Yes, and you mentioned we have seen his appearances in Serie B and beyond. That constitutes mentioning number of appearances.

And you originally said (Q comment), essentially, that we can't use SKILL to rate a young player, which makes no sense.

 

[Delle Alpi]

Ah yes, we are only basing our praise for Seba on YouTube videos and the like. You are correct, because we never watch Juve or Azzurrini matches. Touche.

And yes Tiago is totally ballet. Have not heard that one before. Good work.

Seba definitely needs to do better and I would not rule him out yet.

The utube video thing wasn't based on gio, because I know you have seen him play and I also did watch him and I was just trying to make fun of people these days who rate players based on videos which has nothing to do with you. What I'm trying to say you can't base your opinion or over rate a player because he did well for 20 min against chelsea or was good in very few matches

 

[Bjerknes]

The utube video thing wasn't based on gio, because I know you have seen him play and I also did watch him and I was just trying to make fun of people these days who rate players based on videos which has nothing to do with you. What I'm trying to say you can't base your opinion or over rate a player because he did well for 20 min against chelsea or was good in very few matches

That is true, but Seba has shown in other matches that he is quite a skillful player. It's just that one.

 

[V]

That is true, but Seba has shown in other matches that he is quite a skillful player. It's just that one.

Seba's got all the skill in the world, but I really fear his physique will be the end of him. Sure he's fast and unpredictable with the ball, but whenever I see him play, he's just to easy to stop. When he gets going he's fouled. It doesn't even have to be a hard foul, that warrants a warning or a card, he's just pushed aside.

When you look at players of similar stature, I don't know from Zola to Messi, these are guys that were a pain to put to the ground. You go at them but they won't fall down, even when you think they're down, they somehow manage to wiggle their way out of it. Seba really needs to buff up to make it. And a lot. I just don't understand why he hasn't already.

 

[Luca]

That is true, but Seba has shown in other matches that he is quite a skillful player. It's just that one.

Andy, the best thing to measure a young player who hasn't been given any time is movement, positioning and compatibility with the rest of the squad. Like Ahmed said testing on skill is silly as players like quaresma or kerlon suddenly would be regarded as the best, not only that but skill is quite a juvenial trait to hold as the most important.
If we apply the measure of movement, positioning and compatibility to gio we get a perfect picture of him, he can be quite erratic at fading in and out of games, has often misinterpreted his team-mates and made a run ahead instead of coming deep to collect a pass. Thus you can see why Marchisio is regarded more, it is simply becausehe can interpret our systems easily and fits in very well. However I must add that Giovinco has improved much more at this aspect of his game recently, as a result he's more of a prominant player for attacking.