Russia - Ukraine Conflict 2022 (86 Viewers)

[Tomice]

There’s playing devil’s advocate, and there’s being an annoying troll just to rile people up. While you were on the former side initially, you’ve clearly slid to the latter.

Nah, That's a cope out.

RUS have been calling me names and hurling personal insults at me for weeks now. I was always super civil with him despite that.
So It's obvious I've been trolling RUS a little for a day or 2. I've even told PostIronic in private I'm doing it and now you two acts like you cracked some case.

Who did I rile up beside him? I wasn't trolling anyone else, I stand 100% behind everything I said.

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We may never know, but I honestly can’t read the minds of dictators so sometimes when they say something that doesn’t immediately benefit them I believe it.

Yeah.

Read up on Aleksandr Dugin and the furth political theory for the best insight into Putin's mind if you're not familiar. interesting stuff and he isn't constrained by politics so he speaks quite freely.

Another interesting aspect I find is that the justifications are changing depending on the target audience. The Russian massaging focus in the arab world for example is completely different then to western ears and that to the message internally

 

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[Strickland]

Again, I have never said or contridicted the fact it's 100 on russia. I agree with everything you are saying here and said it myself many times. We seem to be cought in a strawman loop where every time the discussion turn to nuance Im asked to re confirm it's russia fault. What the point of brining the discussion back to thatv every time?

I think I was pretty consistent in saying its russia fault, they have zero moral justification

Well tbf your statement "we should consider that this war happened because NATO promised Ukraine it could join" doesnt sound like you think its 100% on Russia and I really didnt memorize your posts from before.

 

[Post Ironic]

Well tbf your statement "we should consider that this war happened because NATO promised Ukraine it could join" doesnt sound like you think its 100% on Russia and I really didnt memorize your posts from before.

These posts of “it’s 100% on Russia… but NATO is to blame for promising Ukraine it could join and not destroying Russia’s economy in 2008 and 2014.”

Either trolling or completely oblivious. But hey, poor guy says he’s being strawmanned to death

 

[Ronn]

Nah, That's a cope out.

RUS have been calling me names and hurling personal insults at me for weeks now. I was always super civil with him despite that.
So It's obvious I've been trolling RUS a little for a day or 2. I've even told PostIronic in private I'm doing it and now you two acts like you cracked some case.

Who did I rile up beside him? I wasn't trolling anyone else, I stand 100% behind everything I said.

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Yeah.

Read up on Aleksandr Dugin and the furth political theory for the best insight into Putin's mind if you're not familiar. interesting stuff and he isn't constrained by politics so he speaks quite freely.

Another interesting aspect I find is that the justifications are changing depending on the target audience. The Russian massaging focus in the arab world for example is completely different then to western ears and that to the message internally

Did read a little. Which part of Dugin’s thinking support your assertion that Putin does not like to annex western Ukraine?

 

[Tomice]

Did read a little. Which part of Dugin’s thinking support your assertion that Putin does not like to annex western Ukraine?

Absolutely none of it would

My assertion wasn't that he wouldn't like to , It was that he know he can't.

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Well tbf your statement "we should consider that this war happened because NATO promised Ukraine it could join" doesnt sound like you think its 100% on Russia and I really didnt memorize your posts from before.

The second part of that sentence that you left out was "and russia not wanting to wait for it to happen", or something along those lines. Can easily flip your assertion and read the complete sentence as meaning "that it's Russia blame for objecting a legitime, sovereign decision".

In the context of my reply to Gordo it was a response to him saying NATO have nothing to do with this war which I disagree with. As we discussed before I think it did influence the timing and scale of the conflict. Would this war happened if NATO didn't exist? likely, but they do and are a side here imo.

I'll just say that it's completely within Ukraine right to join NATO and NATO's right to admit Ukraine. With that said it doesn't mean we can't even mention the fact that this isn't in the best interest of Russia and does influence their decision making

And I understood that, no hard feelings. I tend to assume people remember everything which is obviously an insane notion
Also english is not my mother tongue so sometimes I miss on the phrasing.

 

[Post Ironic]

Did read a little. Which part of Dugin’s thinking support your assertion that Putin does not like to annex western Ukraine?

Dugin’s another Russia-controlled Eurasian Empire psychopath. Two peas in a pod, him and Putin. Human excrement.

 

[Tomice]

These posts of “it’s 100% on Russia… but NATO is to blame for promising Ukraine it could join and not destroying Russia’s economy in 2008 and 2014.”

Either trolling or completely oblivious. But hey, poor guy says he’s being strawmanned to death

As I said, if he was tuz member you would brand him a putin apologist and NATO blamer

Thank you for proving my point you dolt

 

[Post Ironic]

Thank you for proving my point you dolt

Cry a little more dude. The policing is out of control!

 

[Tomice]

Cry a little more dude. The policing is out of control!

 

[Ronn]

Absolutely none of it would

My assertion wasn't that he wouldn't like to , It was that he know he can't.

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The second part of that sentence was "and russia not wanting to wait for it to happen", or something along those lines. Can easily flip your assertion and read the complete sentence as meaning "that it's Russia blame for objecting a legitime, sovereign decision".

In the context of my reply to Gordo it was a response to him saying NATO have nothing to do with this war which I disagree with. As we discussed before I think it did influence the timing and scale of the conflict. Would this war happened if NATO didn't exist? maybe but they do and are a side here imo.

I'll just say that it's completely within Ukraine right to join NATO and NATO's right to admit Ukraine. With that said it doesn't mean we can't even mention the fact that this isn't in the best interest of Russia and does influence their decision making

And I understood that, no hard feelings. I tend to assume people remember everything which is obviously an insane notion
Also english is not my mother tongue so sometimes I miss on the phrasing.

Aah I read your post backwards. Sorry!
Now that we’re talking about Putin’s thinking, do you think he chose this time because of NATO agreeing to consider Ukraine last year?

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

Thank you for proving my point you dolt

You are sick in the head, Putin's fanboy

 

[Tomice]

Aah I read your post backwards. Sorry!
Now that we’re talking about Putin’s thinking, do you think he chose this time because of NATO agreeing to consider Ukraine last year?

More like forced to or rushed then choose imo.
It's part of it maybe, also there was this in January this year so definitely I can see Putin thinking a window is closing.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-po...ato-plus-status-submitted-to-us-congress.html

It's not unlikely that Putin felt like this was a good time, even a last chance. But we have no idea what goes on backstage in geo-politics so it's all a guessing game

 

[Cerval]

These posts of “it’s 100% on Russia… but NATO is to blame for promising Ukraine it could join and not destroying Russia’s economy in 2008 and 2014.”

Either trolling or completely oblivious. But hey, poor guy says he’s being strawmanned to death

Russia and the West don't abide to the same ideologies. Of course Russia is the one in the wrong. But starting from there, the choices and inaction of the West had an impact. What I see is geopolitcally it failed Ukraine.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

Russia and the West don't abide to the same ideologies. Of course Russia is the one in the wrong. But starting from there, the choices and inaction of the West had an impact. What I see is geopolitcally it failed Ukraine.

No???? Jesus Christ, why did maidan has happened???? Because of NATO????? So many deluded people, it's fucking crazy, absolutely crazy, did Putin invade ukraine after 2008 summit???? Why he didn't if NATO have promised something to Ukraine alongside with Georgia??? Why he decided to annex Crimea only after maidan????

 

[Ronn]

More like forced to or rushed then choose imo.
It's part of it maybe, also there was this in January this year so definitely I can see Putin thinking a window is closing.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-po...ato-plus-status-submitted-to-us-congress.html

It's not unlikely that Putin felt like this was a good time, even a last chance. But we have no idea what goes on backstage in geo-politics so it's all a guessing game

Got it. But I’m confused on one thing: if NATO agreeing to consider admitting Ukraine pushed Putin to do it now what would’ve he done without that agreement? Taking his time and plan a better invasion?

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

@Post Ironic I'm losing my mind over NATO blamers

 

[Cerval]

No???? Jesus Christ, why did maidan has happened???? Because of NATO????? So many deluded people, it's fucking crazy, absolutely crazy, did Putin invade ukraine after 2008 summit???? Why he didn't if NATO have promised something to Ukraine alongside with Georgia??? Why he decided to annex Crimea only after maidan????

Russia is a threat, it hasn't been handled correctly

 

[Tomice]

Got it. But I’m confused on one thing: if NATO agreeing to consider admitting Ukraine pushed Putin to do it now what would’ve he done without that agreement? Taking his time and plan a better invasion?

Maybe, it doesn't seem very well planed.
Would also have more time to prepare for dealing with sanctions, gas pipeline to china, I don't know, can be anyone guess.

 

[Ronn]

Maybe, it doesn't seem very well planed.
Would also have more time to prepare for dealing with sanctions, gas pipeline to china, I don't know, can be anyone guess.

I think if we take that Dugin philosophy on its face value he would’ve done exactly that, which is why I think NATO is a red herring in any argument about this conflict.

 

[campionesidd]

@s4tch


Appeasement only makes the aggressor more aggressive
He understands only one language - action
And he respects only one word - force
No sign of them stopping, no time for back channel communiques
We need all the help we can get, air strikes and invasions!
Retaliate. I say!

The will of good men can not counter the terrible strain of war

Are you this guy?