Russia - Ukraine Conflict 2022 (93 Viewers)

[Juventino[RUS]]

Georgia couldn't be taken into NATO under any circumstances since they have problems with Abkhazia and South Ossetia. In summer of 2008 as soon as Saakashvili tried to return Ossetia, Putin immediately brought in Russian troops and defeated the Georgian army in order to prevent Saakashvili from uniting the country. In the case of Ukraine, he instructed his puppet Yanukovych to flee the country because of maidan, then to justify the annexation of Crimea and Donbass Russian propaganda has created a myth about Nazis, fascists, Bandera's followers, Yarosh's followers that came to power in Ukraine just to erase ethnic Russians so Russia had to act to protect russian-speaking people. What a moron you have to be to blame NATO for the actions of the crazy bastard Putin??

 

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[Tomice]

I think if we take that Dugin philosophy on its face value he would’ve done exactly that, which is why I think NATO is a red herring in any argument about this conflict.

Russia invasion would have happened eventually regardless of NATO existence for sure. But the other side of that is that NATO was the only one who could have stopped Russia and they didn't.

 

[Cerval]

Georgia couldn't be taken into NATO under any circumstances since they have problems with Abkhazia and South Ossetia. In summer of 2008 as soon as Saakashvili tried to return Ossetia, Putin immediately brought in Russian troops and defeated the Georgian army in order to prevent Saakashvili from uniting the country. In the case of Ukraine, he instructed his puppet Yanukovych to flee the country because of maidan, then to justify the annexation of Crimea and Donbass Russian propaganda has created a myth about Nazis, fascists, Bandera's followers, Yarosh's followers that came to power in Ukraine just to erase ethnic Russians so Russia had to act to protect russian-speaking people. What a moron you have to be to blame NATO for the actions of the crazy bastard Putin??

I don't blame NATO, I blame Putin, don't put words into my mouth. I'm just saying from 2008 to today, the decisions made didn't stop Putin. Those decisions are things we have control over.

 

[Post Ironic]

Russia and the West don't abide to the same ideologies. Of course Russia is the one in the wrong. But starting from there, the choices and inaction of the West had an impact. What I see is geopolitcally it failed Ukraine.

I don’t think it failed per se. Perhaps made mistakes, but failed is stretching. Russia under Putin and the ideologues he quotes and uses have always stated that Ukraine is not a real nation, has always been Little Rus, and belongs to Russia. Their end goal has always been invasion and subjugation.

I see any decision NATO made in the last 20 years as fraught with peril. The one main goal of NATO with regards to relations with Russia has been to avoid a shooting war. Everyone loses there. Perhaps Putin’s claims and strategizing use of tactical battlefield nukes are just posturing, but it seems they think they could get away with it because no one will escalate past that for fear of annihilation.

Did NATO make mistakes here looking back in hindsight? Of course. They probably should have allowed Ukraine to join long ago, even if they didn’t meet NATO entry requirements. Does that put them at fault or to blame for Russia invading Ukraine? Absolutely not.

 

[Ronn]

Russia invasion would have happened eventually regardless of NATO existence for sure. But the other side of that is that NATO was the only one who could have stopped Russia and they didn't.

How?

 

[Tomice]

How?

Punishing them for Georgia and Crimea mainly. Or calling his bluff by putting soldiers on the ground before the invasion if they had balls

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

I don't blame NATO, I blame Putin, don't put words into my mouth. I'm just saying from 2008 to today, the decisions made didn't stop Putin.

Obama has even offered a "reset" button to Russia in 2012 via Hilary Clinton, Obama has tried so-so hard to make the relationships between the us and Russia unbelievably good but then Putin came back to power and everything went downhill

 

[Tomice]

I don't blame NATO, I blame Putin, don't put words into my mouth. I'm just saying from 2008 to today, the decisions made didn't stop Putin. Those decisions are things we have control over.

That's his thing

 

[Post Ironic]

Russia is a threat, it hasn't been handled correctly

This. They’ve made mistakes trying to create at least quasi-friendly/not-hostile relations with Russia… perhaps with the goal in mind that China is the future threat, but the appeasement of and kid gloves on Russia has allowed them to act more and more belligerently with little consequence, coming to a head now. The reasoning behind it makes sense, Russia is one of the nuclear superpowers, and the West has to deal with the rising threat of China in the east, but they misjudged the good faith of Russia in their diplomacy.

 

[Ronn]

Punishing them for Georgia and Crimea mainly. Or calling his bluff by putting soldiers on the ground before the invasion if they had balls

I see. I disagree on the second method as it would’ve risked WWIII. But yeah he didn’t receive much of a backlash for either invasion. But Russia is geopolitically hard to isolate and if that’s the extent of the blame NATO gets it’s not that much. We had Great Recession and ISIS to worry about which at their time seemed like bigger threats.

 

[Tomice]

I see. I disagree on the second method as it would’ve risked WWIII. But yeah he didn’t receive much of a backlash for either invasion. But Russia is geopolitically hard to isolate and if that’s the extent of the blame NATO gets it’s not that much. We had Great Recession and ISIS to worry about which at their time seemed like bigger threats.

People should just not be shocked this happened as it happened before and it worked out for him

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You are sick in the head, Putin's fanboy

Ha, I missed that, Vintage RUS

And PostIronic agreeing of course

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Are you this guy?

It's from a song from my workout playlist and i was sure s4tch would know it

 

[Cerval]

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

Fuck Abramovich, give us back what you and your cronies have stolen from us

 

[kappa96]

As I said, if he was tuz member you would brand him a putin apologist and NATO blamer

"The only thing NATO and the EU can be blamed is not going scorched earth against putler back in 2008 when he invaded Georgia."

My statemt from post #5475 disprove your claim.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

Even the guy who is fighting in Ukraine is fucking tired of right wing imbeciles
@Post Ironic

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Spoiler: NSFL

BUT NATO BASES NATO POLICIES the only reason why all these people are dead is because russian President is the biggest cunt in the world

 

[radekas]

russian animals

 

[Kopanja]

Mens arms are tied behind their back. This is Russia.

 

[Post Ironic]

Mens arms are tied behind their back. This is Russia.

And we still have clowns acting like is somehow not entirely on Russia. Russia under a nationalist ideologue like Putin always meant for this sort of subjugation of Ukraine, and it’s fucking awful and depressing and tragic. That humans still do this shit to others in this sort of scale is enough to put one into the abyss of despair. I’m sorry, dude. This stuff makes me wish we went all in on stopping this, consequences be damned.