Russia - Ukraine Conflict 2022 (103 Viewers)

[Juventino[RUS]]

How's that? they only thing he possibly backed off from is installing a new government. Not saying they should agree but do you think they are winning?

Okay, let's say they will agree with Russian proposal, who will give any guarantees to ukraine? Budapest memorandum was already there and Russia have said fuck it and have invaded Ukraine back in 2014 and annexed Crimea, what's the difference now? There is no sane person in Ukraine who could trust in Putin's words

 

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[Post Ironic]

I don't think those were ever his goals, just excuses. Don't fall for propaganda

That’s my point. We have a dumbass(es) here believing that Ukraine is some fascist Nazi state needing to be demilitarized to stop genocide of ethnic Russians. Of course this nonsense is not true. Just like the next wave of Russian propaganda he alluded to with US military bio warfare labs in Odessa and Ukraine trying to make a dirty bomb

 

[Tomice]

Okay, let's say they will agree with Russian proposal, who will give any guarantees to ukraine? Budapest memorandum was already there and Russia have said fuck it and have invaded Ukraine back in 2014 and annexed Crimea, what's the difference now? There is no sane person in Ukraine who could trust in Putin's words

Maybe for NATO to guarantee their integrity with some kind of a special member statues. Where they have some defensive pact but NATO can't station troops/build bases. I'm no expert and even that might not even be possible or acceptable for Russia.
I don't really see another way out for them and from the start I didn't think they have much hope Unfourtenetly.

The only ones Ukrainians should and can count on is themselves. They might lose here and make painfull concession but I'm sure Russia will think 10 times before trying to invade them again, and they will only be stronger the next round and Russia weaker. They are their own best defense now and for the future.


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That’s my point. We have a dumbass(es) here believing that Ukraine is some fascist Nazi state needing to be demilitarized to stop genocide of ethnic Russians. Of course this nonsense is not true. Just like the next wave of Russian propaganda he alluded to with US military bio warfare labs in Odessa and Ukraine trying to make a dirty bomb

I know you know. I was mocking the other idiots

 

[ALC]

How's that? they only thing he possibly backed off from is installing a new government. Not saying they should agree but do you think they are winning?

I don’t think Ukraine is winning but neither is Russia. They have what, 90% of their forces in Ukraine now and still haven’t been successful. They didn’t expect the long battle and the best thing for Ukraine to do is stand their ground and continue getting aid from other countries.

the longer this goes, the better chances for Ukraine and more likely Putin gets the boot by his own people that are being starved and isolated.

 

[radekas]

 

[s4tch]

Where did demilitarization and denazification go?

demilitarization is still there, and ukraine should stop any military activity instantly (fucking lol)

but no word about the nazis. they'll try to assassinate the ukrainian president later anyway.

 

[Nzoric]

I don’t think Ukraine is winning but neither is Russia. They have what, 90% of their forces in Ukraine now and still haven’t been successful. They didn’t expect the long battle and the best thing for Ukraine to do is stand their ground and continue getting aid from other countries.

the longer this goes, the better chances for Ukraine and more likely Putin gets the boot by his own people that are being starved and isolated.

Thats really wishful thinking. Not to be that guy, but the propaganda and speculation into the russian campaign ‘not going as planned’ has been really strong. No doubt to boost morale and keep the fight going long enough for the russians to feel the pain or NATO closing the airspace (which is never happening)

Theyre engaged in cities equalling over 10m inhabitants and Mauripol + Kharkiv are on the brink of folding. Im pretty sure its going much worse for Ukraine than ‘we’ think. Next is Odessa and Kiev, and if this doesnt end up negotiated before then, thats all she wrote.


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[campionesidd]

I don't think those were ever his goals, just excuses. Don't fall for propaganda

This is @Post Ironic you’re talking to lol.

 

[BayernFan]

Thats really wishful thinking. Not to be that guy, but the propaganda and speculation into the russian campaign ‘not going as planned’ has been really strong. No doubt to boost morale and keep the fight going long enough for the russians to feel the pain or NATO closing the airspace (which is never happening)

Theyre engaged in cities equalling over 10m inhabitants and Mauripol + Kharkiv are on the brink of folding. Im pretty sure its going much worse for Ukraine than ‘we’ think. Next is Odessa and Kiev, and if this doesnt end up negotiated before then, thats all she wrote.


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I agree with you in the sense that the media is probably painting a better picture than how it actually goes for Ukraine. But at the same time it seems the Russians grossly underestimated the task.

They thought they could've invaded a country the size of Ukraine with 44 mio people, overthrow the government in 72 hours and be done with it.

Probably Putins generals and military staff didn't want to tell him the operation would be much harder than that, and cost way more lifes than what he expected.

 

[Tomice]

I don’t think Ukraine is winning but neither is Russia. They have what, 90% of their forces in Ukraine now and still haven’t been successful. They didn’t expect the long battle and the best thing for Ukraine to do is stand their ground and continue getting aid from other countries.

the longer this goes, the better chances for Ukraine and more likely Putin gets the boot by his own people that are being starved and isolated.

Their fight is heroic but let's be honest here, the Russians will win. The only chance for the Ukrainians future is to make this loss as costly as possible.
And Putin might be overthrown but I don't think it will happen during a war.

with that said this will be a pyrrhic victory for Russia in epic proportions. this will set them back militarily 15-20 year at least.

 

[Nzoric]

.

They thought they could've invaded a country the size of Ukraine with 44 mio people, overthrow the government in 72 hours and be done with it.

.

Did they, though?


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[BayernFan]

Did they, though?


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Im pretty sure I read it somewhere. Maybe I got it wrong.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Their fight is heroic but let's be honest here, the Russians will win. The only chance for the Ukrainians future is to make this loss as costly as possible.
And Putin might be overthrown but I don't think it will happen during a war.

with that said this will be a pyrrhic victory for Russia in epic proportions. this will set them back militarily 15-20 year at least.

With the way media works, it's nigh impossible to invade and control a whole sovereign relatively well functioning country. Back then you had to strike fast and commit as much atrocities as possible yo break people's spirit. You just can't get away with that anymore.

 

[Nzoric]

Im pretty sure I read it somewhere. Maybe I got it wrong.

Iirc its from seized secret documents found on captured/killed Russian officers.

I have a really hard time believing that.


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[abstract]

Did they, though?


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Well, the western media said that...

 

[Kopanja]

Did they, though?


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Yeah, apparently they did. Too much things pointing exactly at it. Starting from Russians had provisions basically only for 3 days and finishing with captured documents and plans.

 

[X Æ A-12]

There really is a storm of videos of captured Russian vehicles and soldiers in recent days.

looks like the Russians ran out of gas and abandoned loads of armored vehicles

 

[BayernFan]

Iirc its from seized secret documents found on captured/killed Russian officers.

I have a really hard time believing that.


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Even if it's to be true, taking Ukraine in around 3 days would be pretty much impossible. Even if they succeeded in removing Zelenskyj in that time period.

It looks like the Russian leadership really underestimated the Ukrainians will to fight.

 

[Nzoric]

Yeah, apparently they did. Too much things pointing exactly at it. Starting from Russians had provisions basically only for 3 days and finishing with captured documents and plans.

Might be - Im not convinced.

Put it this way, either its mind games and spin or the Russian army is ridiculously malfunctioning.


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[Kopanja]

looks like the Russians ran out of gas and abandoned loads of armored vehicles

That happens everywhere. I drive daily against a huge column of Russian OMON completely abandoned/destroyed, it's OMON, not military.

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Might be - Im not convinced.

Put it this way, either its mind games and spin or the Russian army is ridiculously malfunctioning.

Shit, dude. I am not an opsec, I am too dumb to do it, because I am here on TuZ. I am just here, in Kharkiv.
And there is no mind games, it's just a reality. Russian army is bigger and stronger then ours, for sure. But it's not nearly as well-oiled machine as even Russian believed.