Russia - Ukraine Conflict 2022 (88 Viewers)

[Tomice]

If there’s anyone who can say that, it’s a Pole. And still, all the foreign nation states that invaded Poland are now destroyed, yet Poland survives. I hope Ukraine will be the same.

Yeah, I think with all the sorrow here this incredible adversity glavenize a pepole like nothing else.

If this is the spirit they handle such a shity hand with I have no worries about their future.

 

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[GiocataGrande]

I think maybe you and ALC under different circumstances would be much closer to agree.

There is a scale to things. the Russians machine turned it up to eleven so the discussion becomes polarized. Even at their worst, when the west is directly involved or the initiator like Afghanistan, Iraq ect. you would still have more diversity of opinion even if I agree with you that most of the mass media totally toes the establishment line.

Now the gap is even more pronounced, and hence the discussion more polarized, since there is even less uniformity in opinion in western mass media due to more diversity of interests and lack of direct involvement.

The difference between us is that he believes Western Media has freedom of speech and i dont. You might get away with talking out of line for a bit, but in the end you get stamped as a commie or sensored if you dont follow the narratives that main news channels are projecting. I see the Western "freedom" as an illusion more than anything else.

I compared it to Kreml because they need to do the same thing: manipulate people, deceive and brainwash. They are just doing it more agressive and with less news channels obviously.

 

[campionesidd]

The difference between us is that he believes Western Media has freedom of speech and i dont. You might get away with talking out of line for a bit, but in the end you get stamped as a commie or sensored if you dont follow the narratives that main news channels are projecting. I see the Western "freedom" as an illusion more than anything else.

I compared it to Kreml because they need to do the same thing: manipulate people, deceive and brainwash. They are just doing it more agressive and with less news channels obviously.

Sorry, the two are nothing alike. I can’t speak for every Western country, In the US you have a 50-50 split in the population who cannot agree on a lot of things, and both sides are allowed to express their opinions freely.

 

[GiocataGrande]

Sorry, the two are nothing alike. I can’t speak for every Western country, In the US you have a 50-50 split in the population who cannot agree on a lot of things, and both sides are allowed to express their opinions freely.

they can express their opinions more freely but are still slaves to the system, and will be silenced if spoken out. Assange or Snowden can attest to that

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

they can express their opinions more freely but are still slaves to the system, and will be silenced if spoken out.

What system would that be?

 

[Elvin]

Yeah, I think with all the sorrow here this incredible adversity glavenize a pepole like nothing else.

If this is the spirit they handle such a shity hand with I have no worries about their future.

Yes, Ukraine is going to be an amazing country. Zero doubt about it.

 

[GiocataGrande]

What system would that be?

The system that runs the western world and the powers that be: you either follow the narratives feeded to you or you are a dirty anti vaxxer/communist/shitbag. Being anti war equipment supplier these days for example, is synonymous with being a traitor.

 

[Elvin]

The difference between us is that he believes Western Media has freedom of speech and i dont. You might get away with talking out of line for a bit, but in the end you get stamped as a commie or sensored if you dont follow the narratives that main news channels are projecting. I see the Western "freedom" as an illusion more than anything else.

I compared it to Kreml because they need to do the same thing: manipulate people, deceive and brainwash. They are just doing it more agressive and with less news channels obviously.

Umm except America's head of state changes every 4-8 years and isn't all that powerful to begin with. So who the fuck does the Western media serve in your opinion?

I know who the Russian one serves.

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The system that runs the western world and the powers that be: you either follow the narratives feeded to you or you are a dirty anti vaxxer/communist/shitbag. Being anti war equipment supplier these days for example, is synonymous with being a traitor.

So how many of the so called traitors have been jailed so far?

 

[GiocataGrande]

What is mass media?

the western be Russian media could not be further apart and you’re blind if you can’t see that.

Everything the government does here is criticized, good luck doing that in Russia without being punished

Dont play cute, you know very well what mass media is.

In fact they are exactly the same: they both need to lie, deceive and control people. Thats how they sell stories and profit and serve their lobbying masters.

Point given tho, in Russia the Media is more controlled and authoritarian, but the means are the same. They use the same tools.

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Umm except America's head of state changes every 4-8 years and aren't all powerful to begin with. So who the fuck does the US media serve in your opinion?

I know who the Russian one serves.

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So how many of the so called traitors have been jailed so far?

1: They are basically ingrained with lobbying: they serve the financial powers that dominates society. This is basic stuff, not rocket science.

2: Not jail, but loss of job, freezing out from society etc: your gonna get shit on very hard for bringin out these opinions in public.

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I simply can't put my head around Le Pen winning election in France. That country is so fucked up.

I cant see Le Pen winning, the country would be in chaos

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

This fucking propaganda tactic of "it wasn't us, it was you" is so fucking disgusting. And it started when these fuckers killed 300+ people on the Malaysia Airlanes plane in 2015. The fact that nobody will be punished for all these crimes just breaks my heart. The world is such a shit place.

All those innocent people just wanting to have a life killed in an instant by orkish horde. Fuck this.

No, it's started in 1999 with Moscow bombings

 

[Lapa]

...

So many things I wanna post here but I can't since I would be banned again. This forum is full of commies that know nothing about free speech. I pity so many of you.

--

But please continue, I'll keep reading.

 

[Post Ironic]

Dont play cute, you know very well what mass media is.

In fact they are exactly the same: they both need to lie, deceive and control people. Thats how they sell stories and profit and serve their lobbying masters.

Point given tho, in Russia the Media is more controlled and authoritarian, but the means are the same. They use the same tools.

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1: They are basically ingrained with lobbying: they serve the financial powers that dominates society. This is basic stuff, not rocket science.

2: Not jail, but loss of job, freezing out from society etc: your gonna get shit on very hard for bringin out these opinions in public.

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I cant see Le Pen winning, the country would be in chaos

What people have a problem with is that you exaggerate this stuff to the umpteenth degree. Are people or businesses “cancelled” for getting out of line with whoever holds sway with the public currently? Sure, but it’s still incredibly rarely. It’s just that when it happens whichever side it happened to jumps on it and blares it everywhere they can.

And yes the lobbies are powerful as fuck, but there all sorts of lobbyist groups out there with competing interests. Does some media align with some lobbying and other media with others? Sure. But there is still a lot of independent and excellent reporting done in North America. And a lot of investigative journalism into the lobbyist industry and the corruption found there. It isn’t so black and white and dire as you make it out to be.

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What system would that be?

Deep state, bro. Deep state. Thank god for Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, Madison Cawthorn, Matt Gaetz and that ilk saving us!

 

[campionesidd]

they can express their opinions more freely but are still slaves to the system, and will be silenced if spoken out. Assange or Snowden can attest to that

Whether you agree with their actions or not, they still broke a ton of laws.

 

[GiocataGrande]

What people have a problem with is that you exaggerate this stuff to the umpteenth degree. Are people or businesses “cancelled” for getting out of line with whoever holds sway with the public currently? Sure, but it’s still incredibly rarely. It’s just that when it happens whichever side it happened to jumps on it and blares it everywhere they can.

And yes the lobbies are powerful as fuck, but there all sorts of lobbyist groups out there with competing interests. Does some media align with some lobbying and other media with others? Sure. But there is still a lot of independent and excellent reporting done in North America. And a lot of investigative journalism into the lobbyist industry and the corruption found there. It isn’t so black and white and dire as you make it out to be.

That is the clear minority tho, both you and i know that. You might say im overreacting and at the same time i think you are being apologetic and excusing. We can do this all night to no end.

I find the notion that the western media is some sort of freedom of speech institution naive at best.

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Whether you agree with their actions or not, they still broke a ton of laws.

They stood for freedom of speech tho and were shut down, isolated and banned from society.

 

[Post Ironic]

Whether you agree with their actions or not, they still broke a ton of laws.

And it’s two people. There are so few examples of this in western countries in the last few decades. It’s so lazy to say “look at Assange and Snowden, this means all media is owned or jailed”! Lol

It’s like when RUS or whoever posted the list of Russian journos killed in the past 30 years and it was hundreds long, and then that Uru idiot or whichever poster it was said “look, there’s the same sort of list for America too! Just as bad!” Except the American list went back 250 years and was a fraction of the length.

 

[GiocataGrande]

Deep state, bro. Deep state. Thank god for Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, Madison Cawthorn, Matt Gaetz and that ilk saving us!

dont come with these banal straw mans, you know exactly what i meant

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

Yep. Even in the American mainstream media. I can find opposing opinions on everything. I can find criticism of every decision the government makes, domestic or foreign.

I mean, even here in Canada, our government-funded CBC, that conservatives here spend endless time complaining about being super “leftist” spends much of their time shitting on our liberal government and bashing our left-wing NDP party. And if I want to find just mindless ranting and raving about all things liberal, and Trudeau derangement syndrome, the post media group is Canada’s biggest news organization by a margin.

But apparently, this is just like the Kremlin and Russia state backed propaganda. No better lol.

Canada sounds exactly like Australia in this respect.

ABC, The Guardian and the Sydney Morning Herald are seen as leftie tree/hugging bleeding hearts according to our Conservative LNP Party, whilst the Fox News and Murdoch press consistently and constantly hound the centre-left ALP.

Australia really is just a down under version of Canada

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

What about "outlets" such as Infowars then? Existing for over two decades now.

 

[campionesidd]

dont come with these banal straw mans, you know exactly what i meant

You’re generally a cool guy, so I don’t want to diss you like some of the clowns here. I do believe you are misinformed though. Watch this video when you get a chance to get a perspective on how Putin and his cronies operate.

 

[Post Ironic]

dont come with these stupid straw mans, you know exactly what i meant

and you sound exactly like the “deep state is to blame for everything” folk who say the media is 100% controlled by the powers that be and is all propaganda. Maybe you should stop paying attention to click bait CNN and Fox News and follow some of the papers/journos still doing fine investigative journalism. The Atlantic, the Hill are two examples of this. One centre left, one centre right. Are they perfect, nope. But they do a pretty good job. Same with programs like 60 minutes and Fifth Estate.