Rooney??? (2 Viewers)

[Henry]

because of what you said about Zambrotta being better-looking than Bekham. But I was kidding

 

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[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by River ] ++


Well Andy if thats the reason you dont like them then yeah whatever. Isnt alot of Juve (I can even go as far as say Italian league) players overrated? That dosent seem to trouble you. And I dont know where you people who dont live in England get all this over-rated crap from. Do you hold weekly 'who do you rate' contests or some shit?

Gerrard is rated as Liverpools driving force like John said. How is he overrated? Is Vieria overrated then? Was Davids overrated? I completely hate Liverpool FC and I can see how good he is in between calling him and the other players names, but the difference is i can forget that when judging a players quality. And then you went and compared him to Zidane and Joe Cole, completely different type of players.

And who said he was a Zidane, of course hes not Stop trying to put words in my mouth. You say hes overrated, im telling you hes not. The english press is the most critical in the world, im just not getting how foreigners seem to think this all the time. Maybe your doing alittle to much listening to the Liverpool and Man U fans at school?

Yeah there are a lot of overated players, but not as many in Italy as in England IMO. Del Piero can be considered over-rated of course, same can be said about Di Vaio or any other player who doesn't perform to his potential. I don't hold those weekly contests River, but I do watch the EPL more than any other League. Maybe I'm a little biased because I'm gettin tired of watching this crap (I wanna watch Serie A :down: ), but I can see who has skill or not.

Gerrard is no Vieira or Davids or Emerson, thats for sure. Maybe Gerrard is Liverpool's driving force, and that only shows why they are levels below the likes of Arsenal, Man U, and Chelsea. But I still don't rate Steven that highly, and until he shows me more, I won't. There is nothing to be overjoyed about when watching Gerrard play.

When I was comparing Gerrard to Zidane, I wasn't referring to style of play River, I was talking about the level of influence the player has in a match.

You say he's not over-rated, I'm telling you Gerrard is. And its not like I think every player who plays in England is over-rated if thats what you're trying to get at. All (well most) of the people from my country who watch soccer would think that the EPL is the greatest league and that Gerrard is a fantastic player. I'm here to disclaim that. And isn't the Italian press the most critical in the world?

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by River ] ++

And of course he wouldnt be a world icon if he wasnt so good looking. But why let that skew your judgement of him as a player. So if im wrong Andy and Graham, how do you think is a better right midfielder? Figo? Zambrotta? Perhaps Figo but Figo isnt the old Figo anymore. Beckham on form like he was in the last England match is the best right midfielder in the world today, no question.

I can't agree because I haven't seen the last England match, unless you we're reffering to the Portugal match. If so, then Christiano Ronaldo would be my pick. But there are many others who could be better than Beckham.

 

[River]

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++
All (well most) of the people from my country who watch soccer would think that the EPL is the greatest league and that Gerrard is a fantastic player. I'm here to disclaim that.

And thats your problem right there. No one here has even said it is the greatest league in the world. But to be brutal and honest, you dismissing every english player as overrated just makes you look alittle silly thats all. This is going nowhere fast and your avoiding the questions

And i meant the England - Ukraine game were Beckham was at his best.

But hey atleast you have it in you to try to back up what you claim. Not like other people *cough Iceblue cough* who just some saything completely rediculous like 'all english players are overrated, face it' and leave it

 

[Fred]

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++


I can't agree because I haven't seen the last England match, unless you we're reffering to the Portugal match. If so, then Christiano Ronaldo would be my pick. But there are many others who could be better than Beckham.

so you're saying that C.Ronaldo is better than Beckham,i wouldnt go that far,yes Beckham is overrated but he's miles away from Ronaldo,who IMO is just a silly ridiculous player with a handful of fancy tricks.

but again he's only 19 years old:cheesy:

 

[MCPIERO]

Beckham is a great crosser of the ball and takes some delightful free kicks and corners, but that's about it.

So you expect him to do a Maradona everytime he gets the ball:LOL:

Trust me people will talk about the player who used to cross the ball without beating his man and get it right to his target almost everytime:dazed: How did he do that? theyll say

I swear some of you lot expect too much. The man has crazy skills which you have to marvel at, but most tend too look for defects in his game.

C.Ronaldo better than Becks. Good joke.

Easy lil test for anyone who thinks that Becks isnt one of the best players out there. Go play footie with your mates( if you got anyone) play RM and practice crossing the ball into the box with curl without running past the player who is on you.

Rooney is heavy though. He has it all.

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by MCPIERO ] ++
So you expect him to do a Maradona everytime he gets the ball:LOL:

Trust me people will talk about the player who used to cross the ball without beating his man and get it right to his target almost everytime:dazed: How did he do that? theyll say

I swear some of you lot expect too much. The man has crazy skills which you have to marvel at, but most tend too look for defects in his game.

I never said I expected him to do a Maradona every single time; I was simply saying that he doesn't have much depth to his game, and is a fairly 2-dimensional player. I think it's an awesome asset to have a player who can deliver balls into the box for your forwards, and Beckham has always shown that, whether he was playing with Dwight, Ruud or Ronaldo. That's all well and good, but when the dynamics of the match call for a player to do more than just cross the ball all the time, a player like Beckham would be left flat-footed.

The bottom line is: he's an effective player who's got a handy right foot, but due to his shortcomings in other areas of his game (relative to the rave reviews he gets all around the world)... he's over-rated.

 

[MCPIERO]

The rave reviews are normally about his change of hairstyle.

I have to dissagree.Beckham has improved his all round skills at Real. He has become better on the ball and he can play OMF/CMF.In the epl the fast paced nature of the game meant Becks didnt need to be anywhere but on the right side ready to cross the ball into the dangerzone. He was a key player for ManU. There aint many players who have such an influence on a game esp' from that SMF position. At the end of the day each player is assigned a specific job in the position which they play in. Beckham plays RM and is one of the best no debating.(Camo why do we still have him, I love you bro but your a waste of space) Apart from fulfilling his role in the team he has a good work ethic. Best FK taker in the world what more do you want.

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by River ] ++


And thats your problem right there. No one here has even said it is the greatest league in the world. But to be brutal and honest, you dismissing every english player as overrated just makes you look alittle silly thats all. This is going nowhere fast and your avoiding the questions

And i meant the England - Ukraine game were Beckham was at his best.

But hey atleast you have it in you to try to back up what you claim. Not like other people *cough Iceblue cough* who just some saything completely rediculous like 'all english players are overrated, face it' and leave it

Actually River I have heard many people here say the EPL is the greatest in the world. And again I'm saying every English player is over-rated. IMO the best English player is Frank Lampard. He is class in midfield, and a has tools to become world class. Joe Cole is another who I admire. He is a type of hustle and bustle English playmaker that is fun to watch and good to see in English game. But the ones I highlighted as being over-rated are over-rated IMO. But who cares about my opinion, believe whatever you want.

Thanks River, but I've been over this topic so many times that I'm exhausted.

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++
Actually River I have heard many people here say the EPL is the greatest in the world.

I feel Andy's pain in that regard. Most people in Australia think the EPL is the greatest league in the world, simply because it's pretty much the only thing that gets substantial broadcast here. Add to that the 'language factor', and you've got yourself a formula for a bunch of people who know nothing about football and assume Arsenal and Man U are the top 2 teams in the world.

That's not just a generalisation either; on Australia's most popular football site, fans from around the country came to the unanimous decision that the Premier League is the best in the world, followed by Italy and Spain, both with about half the votes the EPL got. It pains me, it really does

By that I don't mean that people aren't allowed to think the EPL is the best in the world; everyone has their own opinion. It's just when I know that these people have seen nothing else and blindly defend something they know sweet pittance about, that I think it's such a shame

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++

I feel Andy's pain in that regard. Most people in Australia think the EPL is the greatest league in the world, simply because it's pretty much the only thing that gets substantial broadcast here. Add to that the 'language factor', and you've got yourself a formula for a bunch of people who know nothing about football and assume Arsenal and Man U are the top 2 teams in the world.

That's not just a generalisation either; on Australia's most popular football site, fans from around the country came to the unanimous decision that the Premier League is the best in the world, followed by Italy and Spain, both with about half the votes the EPL got. It pains me, it really does

By that I don't mean that people aren't allowed to think the EPL is the best in the world; everyone has their own opinion. It's just when I know that these people have seen nothing else and blindly defend something they know sweet pittance about, that I think it's such a shame

Exactly Gray, the same situation is present here in the States. The EPL is the most broadcasted league here, and most people just follow suit and call it the best, which IMO is far from reality. But it is their own opinion, and all I can do is disagree with them. Also, I think the language factor has a role in this, as people wouldn't want to watch something they can't understand, as in the case of Italian soccer. People just don't want to change. :undecide:

 

[River]

well yeah i realise that. But to start judging players abilities and the quality of the league because of that is silly. What ive found around since joining this forum is really weird (to me atleast). Thats alot of people 'hate' or dislike English or English football etc simply because of non-english english liking people that annoy you in your life. Isnt that alittle off?

Also the opinion of which league is better, is only that, an opinion. Its not something everyone is ever gonna agree on.

The premiership does have qualities that the italian league dosent and for occasional football fans its easy to see why the EPL and Spanish Liga are more attractive.

I find the Italian league extremely boring sometimes, im sure alot of people do. Theres tactics and theres downright boring nothingness . And you'll counter this with the classic 'english football kick ball' thing which like i already pointed out is so hypocritical considering what ive seen of the Italian national team and Serie A lately, seems kickball is becoming the only means of attack . Think Euro04 Del Piero doing nothing, Panucci and Zambrotta crossing balls into Vieris head

But thats another thing and who can really be bothered talkign about that, not me

 

[gray]

Actually I've always maintained that the Premier League is the most exciting to watch; it's fast-paced and usually (AFAIK) higher-scoring than Serie A, but entertainment value is a completely different story from international/Europe-wide competitiveness and the standard of the football in the league, and I think a lot of the reason for the EPL's action-packed matches is, quite simply, shite defending Imagine Thierry Henry trying to Waltz past defenders and do keepie-uppies in the opposition box if the likes of Stam, Thuram, Nesta and Cannavaro were challenging him from the ball.

I know Italian football gets blasted from all directions for its negative tactics, but nobody can deny that Italy produces top class defenders and goalkeepers because of their prioritisation of not letting in goals, and it's also clear for all to see that conservative tactics work, particularly against gung-ho teams that are accustomed to facing rag-tag defences week in, week out in their domestic league.

 

[mikhail]

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++
I think a lot of the reason for the EPL's action-packed matches is, quite simply, shite defending Imagine Thierry Henry trying to Waltz past defenders and do keepie-uppies in the opposition box if the likes of Stam, Thuram, Nesta and Cannavaro were challenging him from the ball.

I know Italian football gets blasted from all directions for its negative tactics, but nobody can deny that Italy produces top class defenders and goalkeepers because of their prioritisation of not letting in goals...

Certainly, but can you argue that the defenses of the weakest Serie A teams could hold him? Definately not. Henry is as effective as he is because he's bloody good, and only slightly slower than village gossip. Playing deeper, more conservative football isn't proof that your defenders are better. Think of how good the English NT seems in defense - their attackers are woeful on the international stage, but Campbell and Cole have been amoung the best international defenders recently.

...and it's also clear for all to see that conservative tactics work, particularly against gung-ho teams that are accustomed to facing rag-tag defences week in, week out in their domestic league.

Sure, and hence Arsenal's poor results in Europe. But then, why do Man U, one of the best attacking teams around, do well in Europe? (and before anyone whines, their record is comparable to Juve's). Why do Liverpool remain withering away behind far more flamboyant teams in the league?

The one and only thing on this forum that consistantly annoys me is the incessant airing of opinions that the EPL is shite, and unworthy of comparison with Serie A, much less competition with it.

 

[River]

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++
Actually I've always maintained that the Premier League is the most exciting to watch; it's fast-paced and usually (AFAIK) higher-scoring than Serie A, but entertainment value is a completely different story from international/Europe-wide competitiveness and the standard of the football in the league, and I think a lot of the reason for the EPL's action-packed matches is, quite simply, shite defending Imagine Thierry Henry trying to Waltz past defenders and do keepie-uppies in the opposition box if the likes of Stam, Thuram, Nesta and Cannavaro were challenging him from the ball.

I remember watching quite a few people waltz past stam in his MU days And Thuram, Nesta and Canna are fantastic defenders, one of a kinds. But come on thats 3 players

The old Italian league being the best in the world days are long gone.

 

[MCPIERO]

True that. 97/98 was when Italy was on top. Not only was it the best league in the world(inter uefa cup and us CL final:fero and had the best players in the world reppin' from Juve to Udi, it was the most attractive league to watch without question. The quality of football was something else.

Now the 3 leagues are more close IMO, but Italy isnt top and so isnt England. More or less all 3 are on a level. I dont find the prem exciting though. I love slow build up football. The only games that I find exciting are the big fixtures.

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by River ] ++


I remember watching quite a few people waltz past stam in his MU days And Thuram, Nesta and Canna are fantastic defenders, one of a kinds. But come on thats 3 players

The old Italian league being the best in the world days are long gone.

River, can you tell me why there has only been one English team in the Champion's League Final for the past 17 years? My theory of this is that the quality of the team in Europe stems down from the quality of teams in which they play in their own domestic league. The fact stated above, which of course was Man United in the Final, is something that cannot be overlooked. What that tells me is that the quality play of the EPL is lacking behind other leagues, thus poor performances by English teams in Europe. And I don't wanna hear the same excuses of no winter break, and there are too many matches, as I think professionals can handle that and the other leagues play just as much. The EPL might be very exciting indeed, but when it comes to pure quality, its behind Italy and Spain.

 

[IncuboRossonero]

++ [ originally posted by StormRuller ] ++
He is not happy in Everton... why dont Juve sign him to this season!!!

Because as much as I hate Juve .. Juve management has limits to what "player" it will buy in terms of style and talent. It will not buy any piece of charcoal that can put the old "onion bag" in the net just for the sake of scoring goals and winning games. Some teams have integrity and want to maintain a certain tradition..especially Italian teams.
Rooney is nothing more than a young Vieri with far less class and even less vision and talent...how about playing in Serie A ROONEY??!!! See how many goals you DON'T SCORE.
This is a player that suits English football..an athelete with a powerful kick and a fast sprint with rugby style running...get through at all costs and score with no class and finesse.
NO THANKS...the Gianni Rivera's, Roberto Baggio's and Paolo Maldini's can stay in Italy and the butchers like Rooney and Gascoigne can stay in England.

 

[mikhail]

England has its artists, and Italy its butchers too, Nick.

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++


Because as much as I hate Juve .. Juve management has limits to what "player" it will buy in terms of style and talent. It will not buy any piece of charcoal that can put the old "onion bag" in the net just for the sake of scoring goals and winning games. Some teams have integrity and want to maintain a certain tradition..especially Italian teams.
Rooney is nothing more than a young Vieri with far less class and even less vision and talent...how about playing in Serie A ROONEY??!!! See how many goals you DON'T SCORE.
This is a player that suits English football..an athelete with a powerful kick and a fast sprint with rugby style running...get through at all costs and score with no class and finesse.
NO THANKS...the Gianni Rivera's, Roberto Baggio's and Paolo Maldini's can stay in Italy and the butchers like Rooney and Gascoigne can stay in England.

Finally someone who agrees with me on Rooney.