Random thoughts about Juventuz and the future of Ultra groups (3 Viewers)

[Seven]

Obviously some modernization is a good thing and without it there wouldn't be half as many football fans around the world, indeed, including myself. However, modernization used to be able to coexist with the traditional aspects of the game we cherished the most...and there are signs that the beautiful game is still flourishing in some parts of the world. The moment people who are able to access the stadiums discontinue attending the matches is when modernization has gone too far, and it's a sad occurance because football feeds off of it's supporters. Hopefully this declining trend in attendances is just the usual cycle different leagues progress through over time...much like the ressurgance of the English game within the past few years. But if modernization of football continues to slide down this ugly path, I would have to say the sport will eventually be doomed.

Let me give two examples on why people will always go see games in the stadium:

Last year Del Piero scored a nice goal against Siena. I was watching the game at home, so I smiled.

I also went to see Juventus-Udinese in the Delle Alpi. Camoranesi scored a wonder goal and I couldn't do anything else than clap my hands in total admiration.

Before the Udinese game there had been a lot of talk around Alessandro Del Piero and whether he got to start or not. After seeing all those late night shows in Italy I could finally conclude no one knew. So the speaker went through the first ten names and then yelled "il numero dieci, Alessandro Del Piero!", which was followed by 20 000 supporters going mad. It was like a sigh of relief went through the stadium.

Those are things you won't get at home. Not to mention that you're also able to see so much more in the stadium. I always believed Trezeguet was quite lazy, but when I was there it immediately struck me how much the guy runs. He actually works very hard.

 

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[Erkka]

Erkka, Juve are an Italian club and not a Turin club. So I don't think we'd be plastic if we moved. Agreed, it hasn't been done before and might look a bit weird in the beginning, but if that's going to bring more fans to our stadium I don't see why we shouldn't do it.

But to be fair I don't know where in Italy we have most fans. If we do have lots of fans in Turin there's obviously some other problem. If we have more fans up south it would be actually more fair to move there.

Yes, as I posted earlier Juventus IS Italy, not just Turin nor Piemonte. I do know where Juve is most popular, this is few years old but it still counts. I've posted it several times in here too. Anyway, moving out of Turin is just way too American way of handling business for my taste, I definitely don't want that to happen.

 

[Chxta]

Who is gonna rep me?

And I have to say I agree with 7. Just that it'd be funny having to adjust to being from some other city for a while, but then there is a precedent for it... yes, you guessed it, in Naija.

The Adewale Bridge Boys used to be a Lagos based club, but when the Lagos fans became too hostile to them (Stationary Stores is the darling Lagos club), they relocated to Abeokuta, and since then it has been happy for them.

First Abeokuta had no top flight club of its own, so the people there took ABB with open arms and the rest as they say, is history!

 

[mikhail]

That's perhaps the biggest problem with Italian stadia: they look intimidating towards families. Like I said before, we should go through the same transition as the EPL. Football needs to become clean and friendly again. Because I would go to a Roma-Lazio derby when given the chance, but I doubt everyone would.

Maybe that's part of it, but the truth is that even the EPL is seeing a slow ebb in the attendances. That boost you talk about came after a rather bad patch for English football. I don't know if it'll be repeated.

Certainly, the measures taken in England against hooliganism, racism, etc. have made the stadia more family-friendly. They've also hurt the atmosphere at games. Frankly, the hooligans are far and away more likely to bring banners and sing songs than some middle class family out for a game and a picnic.

Before the Udinese game there had been a lot of talk around Alessandro Del Piero and whether he got to start or not. After seeing all those late night shows in Italy I could finally conclude no one knew. So the speaker went through the first ten names and then yelled "il numero dieci, Alessandro Del Piero!", which was followed by 20 000 supporters going mad. It was like a sigh of relief went through the stadium.

Those are things you won't get at home.

Yes, the atmosphere of a live game is rather different. However, if there aren't enough people in the stadium, the atmosphere will decline.

Not to mention that you're also able to see so much more in the stadium. I always believed Trezeguet was quite lazy, but when I was there it immediately struck me how much the guy runs. He actually works very hard.

That struck me too when I started going to Ireland games regularly. Guys who'd seemed okay on TV were shown up for what they were. Watching O'Shea or Harte in left back at a game is food for a heart-attack, while Cunningham went up a notch in my estimation when I saw his positioning properly.

 

[Geof]

...You're Belgian but still hold your horses, they're not all from Belgium. Anyway you've got to respect them.

Not to mention that this gained you reputation point.

:strong:

 

[swag]

The good news is that I am not so pessimistic to think that the game is doomed to ultimately be some virtual reality match played out on video screens elsewhere around the world. This is the very reason why I detest the thought of using video replays at the matches to dispute questionable ref calls -- it takes the game out of what happens on the pitch and puts the control in the hands of people who aren't there. It's an appeasement for all the TV viewers sitting on their couches with beers in their laps who want their video puppets to dance for them.

I am convinced there will always be game attendances ... and they will rise and they will wane with the politics, economics, and fashions of the times.

But what is clearly different today is that the remote audience is far bigger than it has ever been, and getting bigger. And the critical mass they represent is starting to dwarf the economics of what happens in the confines of the home team's stadium. That much of modernization isn't something I think is going away, and I actually expect its effects to increase.

The wise and successful clubs will find a way to capitalize on it. The rest will be marginalized over time because they cannot compete under the changing ground rules.

Sure, there will be actions and reactions along the path of modernization. A certain, moving equilibrium will ultimately take place. "Have things gotten out of hand?" For a while, maybe a retreat. But always two steps forward, one step back.

 

[Respaul]

sorry Paul, I may have misunderstood what you said in one of our many MSN conversations....

I asked you if the Ultras realized that there are Juve fans far beyond Italy, and that worldwide fan websites are dedicated to the team, and I thought you said that they knew this...

my mistake, sorry....

No worries vinni, i think there is a cross in subjects here...

We were discussing as you said awareness to the worldwide fanbase, where as the way greg put it, was as though people were aware of actual juventuz... which to me are very different....

A lil bit of crosswires me thinks...

But even then, being aware of a fanbase and the attitude cum perception towards it are very different things...

As for the banner thing... A knowledge of stadium politics is required and an understanding of the attitudes of each fangroup... Not enough time to explain, but im sure you know what i mean

 

[Vinman]

Hey Vinni --

Sorry about that. Didn't intent to "rat you out" here... just wanted to make sure we get to the bottom of who said what, because I'm interested to know whether it's true or not. Cheers! int:

not at all Greg...a simple misunderstanding

But even then, being aware of a fanbase and the attitude cum perception towards it are very different things...

very true.....



I think some may disagree with this, but I'm sure that we would get much better attendances if Juve's home stadium was either in Southern Italy or Sicily.

Thats where most of the Juve fans are in Italy(so I've read), as there are many more Torino fans in that city than there are Juve fans, and it would be a lot easier for the many fans of Juve to make the games if they are played where the fanbase is.

Its almost like every home game we play, is an away game....

could you imagine the Dallas Cowboys playing all their home games in Seattle ????

 

[Respaul]

not at all Greg...a simple misunderstanding
I think some may disagree with this, but I'm sure that we would get much better attendances if Juve's home stadium was either in Southern Italy or Sicily.

Thats where most of the Juve fans are in Italy(so I've read),

Firstly, the whole idea of moving city, to me is a complete and utter disgrace and real fvck you to the history and traditions of our club, not to mention her fans...

As for moving to palermo to get full crowds...

I doubt it... I have no doubt that we would pack out a stadium in palermo for the first 6 months or so, until the novelty wore off, but after that i dont see it being much different to now...

There are far more palermo fans in palermo than juve fans... yet even with their current success they only average 26k supporters and not once have come close to selling out...

A temporary result , yes, but not a longterm thing, same goes for anywhere in italy...

Like it or not, attendances across italy are falling rapidly, everyone is in the same boat, we jus happen to be further along the line, probably much todo with being by far the most exposed club in italy...

as there are many more Torino fans in that city than there are Juve fans, and it would be a lot easier for the many fans of Juve to make the games if they are played where the fanbase is

Another common myth... toro are not the most supported team in torino, juve are, not by much, but every poll done in recent times has shown the same result, plus check their attendances compared to juves... what is it , once in 40 years they have had better figures than us... they average across the years not much more than half of our attendances

 

[swag]

Like it or not, attendances across italy are falling rapidly, everyone is in the same boat, we jus happen to be further along the line, probably much todo with being by far the most exposed club in italy...

FYI, an interesting follow-up report on this topic:

According to a Survey, Ticket Prices Are the Cause of the Reduction in Fans at the Stadium

Rome 24/11/2005

The high price of tickets is the main cause behind the reduction in the number of fans at the stadium: this is what results from a survey (click ere) that involved 2,075 spectators in 10 Italian stadiums, realized by the Izi survey company and presented this morning by president Carraro and the managing director of Izi, Giacomo Spaini.

Carraro underlined: "A scientific base is useful to have and the Federation accepts this survey with this spirit. Football has to maintain its popularity by keeping fans in the stands. I don not want to make percentages but I think that the main reasons behind the reduction is the price of tickets and the comfort offered by the facilities. We should adopt a different price policy while waiting for the facilities to be renovated, in order to compensate for the difficulties spectators have with the stadiums. The price policy should be aimed at the second, third and fourth level sectors, in particular".

The survey showed that 37% of those interviewed, both male and female, distributed in all age groups and with a high percentage of high school degrees, feels that the high ticket prices are the cause of the reduction of fans in the stadiums, followed by the application of new anti-violence rule (24%)s and the competition offered by television (23%). A lesser percentage said the cause was less comfort in the stadiums (7%), the quality of play, while 2% did not reply. The survey was carried out in the following football stadiums: Modena, Treviso and Cremona as small stadium samples, Catania, Florence, Lecce, Messina and Udine as medium stadiums, Rome and Milan for large stadiums.

"The federation - continued Carraro - is in favor of the anti-violence norms adopted this year and will continue along this road. When new rules are applied that make it less easy to go to he stadium, we have to remember that the spectator will need more time to get used to the new situation- A reduction, therefore, is normal We will have future advantages, however, since the spectators will feel more safe. The Internal Affairs Ministry will soon approve some modifications, adapting the rules the European ones. Tranquility and safety remain the priorities for the Federation. The data at the beginning of this year are comforting. The most important: there have been less arrests".

Meanwhile, the latest issue of Calcio 2000 cites the growth of pay TV as a prime source for the decline in attendances.

 

[mikhail]

Bump.

This thread is ancient, but I think it's worth resurrecting. The little argument with that Shamrock Rovers fan over what constituted a barstooler and the reaction to my and Red's statements that we don't fully get fans of a distant team brought Greg's wonderful first post to mind.

 

[Kaiser Franco]

And five years on, the esteemed Jean-Claude Blanc can proudly paraphrase le Général : "Gobbi, Gobbettes, je vous ai compris!"

Listen to this.

The new Acqua Uliveto Aren......err "Nuovo Delle Alpi" will be divided into 50 sections, each dedicated to a particular zebra legend, represented by a giant star.

Where do I, unlucky gobbo from Port Saïd or Mississauga, get into the picture, you may ax.

Wait for it.

All around said giant star there will be a large empty space, ready to be filled by a myriad of smaller stars, each displaying the name of one loyal, suffering, until then anonymous fan.

That's right, gobbi. YOU the faithful fan, YOU the Fifth Column of this glorious club, YOU the living testament to its immaculate history will soon enjoy the priviledge of having YOUR name appear next to the shining stars of Omar Sivori, Gaetano Scirea and Renato Buso!!!

FOR ETERNITY!!!!





Oh....my bad : for a license period of 10 years.



At 250 EUR a star.



350 if you want platinium membership.



Umm, there will be around 25 000 available stars...




Well......is this a brilliant idea or what??

Think about it, gobbi : with that money, your beloved Giuve can afford a Marco Storari every 10 years!!!!

All thanks to YOU!!!!

 

[Red]

Every little helps...

 

[Bjerknes]

That is child's play compared to what Gordon Gekko would do.

 

[Hust]

I don't know who a lot of those people are...(posters)...interesting to see old posts and people that I never knew.

 

[soulslider]

commercialisation , i for one don't like that idea one bit , what's next , if you pay enough Del Piero will have a sticker on his forehead during the game with your name on it .