Random thoughts about Juventuz and the future of Ultra groups (2 Viewers)

[Bjerknes]

Greg, what the feck...you already have three reputation blocks.

I demand a recount.

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[Vinman]

sorry Paul, I may have misunderstood what you said in one of our many MSN conversations....

I asked you if the Ultras realized that there are Juve fans far beyond Italy, and that worldwide fan websites are dedicated to the team, and I thought you said that they knew this...

my mistake, sorry....

 

[Chxta]

BTW, where is Denco?

 

[swag]

Greg, what the feck...you already have three reputation blocks.

I demand a recount.

We mods get special powers.

 

[swag]

sorry Paul, I may have misunderstood what you said in one of our many MSN conversations....

I asked you if the Ultras realized that there are Juve fans far beyond Italy, and that worldwide fan websites are dedicated to the team, and I thought you said that they knew this...

my mistake, sorry....

Hey Vinni --

Sorry about that. Didn't intent to "rat you out" here... just wanted to make sure we get to the bottom of who said what, because I'm interested to know whether it's true or not. Cheers! int:

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

We mods get special powers.

I gave it to you, I repped it like on the street, player.

 

[swag]

I gave it to you, I repped it like on the street, player.

I hope this doesn't mean I have to play those funny tickle games with you again.

Thanks, Burke. I must deal back accordingly now.... looks like Marty opened up the rules on repping more than once on somebody, so I better get crackin'...

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

That would be hottness.

Thanks, yay.

 

[Erkka]

Oh, and great idea about the Juventuz.com banner. Also interesting to know that Paul thinks the real ultras (that emphasis is for you, Erkka ) have heard of us.

Oh how wise what that then... You could have edited that ludicrous part already.

Greg's point was that the world's going virtual. With declining attendances, one day we might be as real as it gets.

Luckily that day will never come. On that day the beautiful game would be dead and barried.

In Juve's case they probably should have built the stadium elsewhere. We're not Juventus Torino, we're simply Juventus. Our hometown isn't important. Perhaps we would have had bigger attendances in Sicilia or in Campania and IMO we should have moved.

...Yes, Juventus indeed IS Italy, but I don't want them to be made of plastic either. Moving to the south would certainly boost the attendances for a while, but it would also kill something of Juve's spirit, a bit of the arrogance and elegance. I don't want that to happen.

But I like ridiculous.

Juventuz.

It's not just about the name Juventuz that sounds ridicilous. It's about too much of this modernizing crap anyway. In case you haven't notice, the trend in hardcore-scene is this:

...And that's definitely a good thing.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

BTW, where is Denco?

Smoking that Dank-o.

 

[Erkka]

EDIT: Erkka mentioned Bruxelles Bianconera (aka BXL BN) etc. etc.

...You're Belgian but still hold your horses, they're not all from Belgium. Anyway you've got to respect them.

Not to mention that this gained you reputation point.

making the pelgrimage to Turin isn't just to be recommended, it's necessary.

 

[Bjerknes]

It's not just about the name Juventuz that sounds ridicilous. It's about too much of this modernizing crap anyway. In case you haven't notice, the trend in hardcore-scene is this:

...And that's definitely a good thing.

Of course I have noticed the "no al Calcio Moderno" slogans roaming around Italian football sites...and for good reason. I concur wholeheartedly that when nobody shows up to football matches around the globe, the beautiful game will be dead and burried. Like you have stated before there is absolutely no substitute to actually attending the matches and singing for your club 50 meters from the pitch...you cannot replicate the feeling or live through the experiance behind your own computer.

That is why I feel somewhat ashamed for not attending a Juventus match in my lifetime as of yet. However, seeing I have only been a supporter for less than a decade, I am still rather young and have a lot of years ahead of me to actually make the pilgrimage to Italy...and hopefully I will be able to make a living in La Belle Paese as well. But until then, GOL TV, RAI International, uefa.com, and this forum is unfortunately all I have.

Without the supporters attending the matches your club becomes just as worthless as Chievo...IMO if you call yourself a true Juventino you must make the trip to Turin.

 

[swag]

It's not just about the name Juventuz that sounds ridicilous. It's about too much of this modernizing crap anyway. In case you haven't notice, the trend in hardcore-scene is this:

...And that's definitely a good thing.

But that is the root of the problem. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

People who want to turn the clock to 1962, and those who think they can realistically turn it back to 1962, are going to get left on the wayside as the freeway of progress paves over their La Dolce Vita-era carcasses. Not that I like it the new way, but that's just how it is. Deal with it, or it will deal with you first. Kill or be eaten.

Like it are not, those who resist modernization are doomed to be its cabana boys. Denial gets you nowhere. Throughout history, every such movement ultimately gets labelled as Luddites and ultimately fails. :skull:

 

[swag]

Of course I have noticed the "no al Calcio Moderno" slogans roaming around Italian football sites...and for good reason. I concur wholeheartedly that when nobody shows up to football matches around the globe, the beautiful game will be dead and burried. Like you have stated before there is absolutely no substitute to actually attending the matches and singing for your club 50 meters from the pitch...you cannot replicate the feeling or live through the experiance behind your own computer.

That is why I feel somewhat ashamed for not attending a Juventus match in my lifetime as of yet. However, seeing I have only been a supporter for less than a decade, I am still rather young and have a lot of years ahead of me to actually make the pilgrimage to Italy...and hopefully I will be able to make a living in La Belle Paese as well. But until then, GOL TV, RAI International, uefa.com, and this forum is unfortunately all I have.

Without the supporters attending the matches your club becomes just as worthless as Chievo...IMO if you call yourself a true Juventino you must make the trip to Turin.

I completely agree with you, Andy.

But to play devil's advocate for a moment... if it weren't for the evil of "modernization", undoubtedly you wouldn't be following the daily team and league news on the Internet in a country so far away, you wouldn't converse with other juventini on a regular basis, and you couldn't watch the games with regularity on television. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a Chimenti and an Abbiati, and above all you probably wouldn't even care.

So you can argue that it clearly is worth so much more to have a "real" fan in person at the pitch, who can truly partake in the match experience. And all those onlookers with their pitiful computer monitors be damned. But it's also by that modernization that allows some of us to get access and to at least backfill for all the local, in-person fans who are clearly hitting the exits over the past couple of decades and not necessarily coming back.

 

[Enron]

Andy you should be in bed!

 

[Erkka]

But that is the root of the problem. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

People who want to turn the clock to 1962, and those who think they can realistically turn it back to 1962, are going to get left on the wayside as the freeway of progress paves over their La Dolce Vita-era carcasses. Not that I like it the new way, but that's just how it is. Deal with it, or it will deal with you first. Kill or be eaten.

Like it are not, those who resist modernization are doomed to be its cabana boys. Denial gets you nowhere. Throughout history, every such movement ultimately gets labelled as Luddites and ultimately fails. :skull:

Now that's just too pessimistic and hopefully very wrong. The thing is that noone is denying what's happening, I just believe that we should approach this quite differently and not accept everything that modern world brings to us. I'd like to quote Seven:

Anyway I think attendances will grow bigger again. Serie A just needs to go through the same transition as the EPL. You should be able to go to a football game as a family activity.

 

[Bjerknes]

I completely agree with you, Andy.

But to play devil's advocate for a moment... if it weren't for the evil of "modernization", undoubtedly you wouldn't be following the daily team and league news on the Internet in a country so far away, you wouldn't converse with other juventini on a regular basis, and you couldn't watch the games with regularity on television. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a Chimenti and an Abbiati, and above all you probably wouldn't even care.

So you can argue that it clearly is worth so much more to have a "real" fan in person at the pitch, who can truly partake in the match experience. And all those onlookers with their pitiful computer monitors be damned. But it's also by that modernization that allows some of us to get access and to at least backfill for all the local, in-person fans who are clearly hitting the exits over the past couple of decades and not necessarily coming back.

Obviously some modernization is a good thing and without it there wouldn't be half as many football fans around the world, indeed, including myself. However, modernization used to be able to coexist with the traditional aspects of the game we cherished the most...and there are signs that the beautiful game is still flourishing in some parts of the world. The moment people who are able to access the stadiums discontinue attending the matches is when modernization has gone too far, and it's a sad occurance because football feeds off of it's supporters. Hopefully this declining trend in attendances is just the usual cycle different leagues progress through over time...much like the ressurgance of the English game within the past few years. But if modernization of football continues to slide down this ugly path, I would have to say the sport will eventually be doomed.

 

[Bjerknes]

Andy you should be in bed!

Oh you couldn't be more right dogg. You hear that? That's me walking up the stairs to my room right now...

 

[Erkka]

Obviously some modernization is a good thing and without it there wouldn't be half as many football fans around the world, indeed, including myself. However, modernization used to be able to coexist with the traditional aspects of the game we cherished the most...and there are signs that the beautiful game is still flourishing in some parts of the world. The moment people who are able to access the stadiums discontinue attending the matches is when modernization has gone too far, and it's a sad occurance because football feeds off of it's supporters. Hopefully this declining trend in attendances is just the usual cycle different leagues progress through over time...much like the ressurgance of the English game within the past few years. But if modernization of football continues to slide down this ugly path, I would have to say the sport will eventually be doomed.

Thank you, it's always a pleasure to have someone who actually speaks English to have same opinion with me here. This is exactly what I meant.

 

[Seven]

Erkka, Juve are an Italian club and not a Turin club. So I don't think we'd be plastic if we moved. Agreed, it hasn't been done before and might look a bit weird in the beginning, but if that's going to bring more fans to our stadium I don't see why we shouldn't do it.

But to be fair I don't know where in Italy we have most fans. If we do have lots of fans in Turin there's obviously some other problem. If we have more fans up south it would be actually more fair to move there.

I do disagree with the Delle Alpi being a horrible stadium. I actually like the architecture and it is far from cold on the inside. It's no English stadium, I admit, but it definitely isn't as bad as some here picture it. Remember we had about 50 000 regular visitors back in 1998 and that was the same stadium. The Allianz Arena might have worked wonders for Bayern, but they'll only keep those attendances up by bringing good football and giving football a cleaner image.

That's perhaps the biggest problem with Italian stadia: they look intimidating towards families. Like I said before, we should go through the same transition as the EPL. Football needs to become clean and friendly again. Because I would go to a Roma-Lazio derby when given the chance, but I doubt everyone would.