Protecting the Defense (1 Viewer)

[Bjerknes]

The popular belief around these parts and in calcio is that if you have a weak group of backs, the best option is to use some defensive midfielders to protect the defense. One is always not sufficient for the conservatives, at times two defensive midfielders is just right, but if it the going gets tough, sometimes even three defensive midfielders are thought to do the trick of keeping the defense secure.

But I've got one question. In the words of Sarah Palin, how is that working out for ya' (us)? The answer is not well at all.

Even with Sissoko and Melo, two good destroyers, we still struggle to keep the ball away from the defense. Players get through and the centerbacks are tested, along with the keeper. Even if we throw someone like Poulsen out there with the aforementioned two, we still struggle defensively. Whether it be Ajax, Genoa or Siena, they all get past the midfield and test our horrendous back four. And that's a problem.

I'm sorry, but folks who adhere to the notion that more defensive midfielders mean a more secure defense are wrong in this day and age. The reason it doesn't work is because these destroyers we have cannot play the ball, and hence we end up losing possession and having to defend even deeper. You can throw two, three, hell, four Sissokos out in midfield and we'd still get tested because we'd be forced to play so deep to absorb the pressure due to our inability to maintain possession and create attacks.

Solution? Well, certainly not more destroyers or defensive midfielders.

The solution is finding and playing personnel who can play the ball, and using a more possession-based system. To compensate for our lack of defensive strength, you simply cannot invite the opponent to have possession and hit and hope the ball forward. What needs to happen is that we keep the ball ourselves and press forward more, no matter the score, as that obviously protects the defense in a very sound way. If the other side doesn't have the ball, then they won't be troubling our defense.

It's quite simple, yet folks still don't understand the concept and think that we just gotta field the defensive players in midfield and sit back. It hasn't worked against the English sides over the years, it hasn't worked against other sides around Europe apart from the likes of Madrid, and it hasn't even worked in Serie A for us these past couple years. So it just DOES NOT WORK. There's no debate about it anymore.

We need to start living in the 21st century, folks. Italian football is dead.

 

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[Bianconero81]

1-4 to Bayern (elimination from the CL)
4-1 to Fulham (elimination from the EL)
Countless losses to average opposition throughout the course of the season.
Embarrassed and humiliated in every competition we have taken part in.

This is the most pathetic Juve I have ever seen; the worst Juventus team ever.

I totally agree with Andy. As a matter of fact, I am even going to go beyond
this and say, there is actually no point in protecting the defence, when you actually don't have a defence to begin with.

This Juve is playing archaic, outdated football. We are 20 years behind the times, and it clearly shows. Clueless defenders, a bunch of static midfielders who can't pass the ball, too many defensive minded players, over the hill superstars, and injury prone individuals.

We need to play a more dynamic, fast paced style of football; the way I see it, unless we start adopting a different approach, we will continue to get owned, dominated, and humiliated, not only on the European stage, but domestically, against opponents who adopt a more modern style of football.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

1-4 to Bayern (elimination from the CL)
4-1 to Fulham (elimination from the EL)
Countless losses to average opposition throughout the course of the season.
Embarrassed and humiliated in every competition we have taken part in.

This is the most pathetic Juve I have ever seen; the worst Juventus team ever.

I totally agree with Andy. As a matter of fact, I am even going to go beyond
this and say, there is actually no point in protecting the defence, when you actually don't have a defence to begin with.

This Juve is playing archaic, outdated football. We are 20 years behind the times, and it clearly shows. Clueless defenders, a bunch of static midfielders who can't pass the ball, too many defensive minded players, over the hill superstars, and injury prone individuals.

We need to play a more dynamic, fast paced style of football; the way I see it, unless we start adopting a different approach, we will continue to get owned, dominated, and humiliated, not only on the European stage, but domestically, against opponents who adopt a more modern style of football.

We are average?

With two world-class players and a hell of a midfield and strike force?

 

[Bianconero81]

Nope. Bayern are a world class team. However, Catania, Fulham, and the like are definitely average.

 

[TPSPriceless]

The old defensive style, of Italians, is not dead. You cannot say that our defenders are near half as good as Gentile, Madlini, Cannavaro, Nesta and all the other great defenders, when they were in their prime.

Italian teams were the only ones able to defend so well, back in the old days, because Italy used to boast the best defenders and goalkeepers. Our best defender, Chiellini, is not even up to the task and seems like a Molinaro compared to the beasts we had before.

 

[only-juve]

Defense one of the main reason we're suffering this season i totally agree with that but i would even add we don't have the right balance (in general) in this team.

The whole team is built wrong IMO.

 

[Ahmed]

the lack of pace and athleticism at the back is a huge problem...even Chiellini is semi-quick at best...surround him with retards like Grosso, Grygera and an archaic Traitor, and you have a serious problem over the duration of a long season.

 

[zizoufan]

Thuram was also slow and that worked for us !

 

[Ahmed]

Thuram was also slow and that worked for us !

put him in a defence with Grosso and Grygera as your FBs, then even he would be made to look inadequate.

 

[Nicholas]

We are average?

With two world-class players and a hell of a midfield and strike force?

If your average, I don't want to hear what Juventus is.

 

[sateeh]

The popular belief around these parts and in calcio is that if you have a weak group of backs, the best option is to use some defensive midfielders to protect the defense. One is always not sufficient for the conservatives, at times two defensive midfielders is just right, but if it the going gets tough, sometimes even three defensive midfielders are thought to do the trick of keeping the defense secure.

But I've got one question. In the words of Sarah Palin, how is that working out for ya' (us)? The answer is not well at all.

Even with Sissoko and Melo, two good destroyers, we still struggle to keep the ball away from the defense. Players get through and the centerbacks are tested, along with the keeper. Even if we throw someone like Poulsen out there with the aforementioned two, we still struggle defensively. Whether it be Ajax, Genoa or Siena, they all get past the midfield and test our horrendous back four. And that's a problem.

I'm sorry, but folks who adhere to the notion that more defensive midfielders mean a more secure defense are wrong in this day and age. The reason it doesn't work is because these destroyers we have cannot play the ball, and hence we end up losing possession and having to defend even deeper. You can throw two, three, hell, four Sissokos out in midfield and we'd still get tested because we'd be forced to play so deep to absorb the pressure due to our inability to maintain possession and create attacks.

Solution? Well, certainly not more destroyers or defensive midfielders.

The solution is finding and playing personnel who can play the ball, and using a more possession-based system. To compensate for our lack of defensive strength, you simply cannot invite the opponent to have possession and hit and hope the ball forward. What needs to happen is that we keep the ball ourselves and press forward more, no matter the score, as that obviously protects the defense in a very sound way. If the other side doesn't have the ball, then they won't be troubling our defense.

It's quite simple, yet folks still don't understand the concept and think that we just gotta field the defensive players in midfield and sit back. It hasn't worked against the English sides over the years, it hasn't worked against other sides around Europe apart from the likes of Madrid, and it hasn't even worked in Serie A for us these past couple years. So it just DOES NOT WORK. There's no debate about it anymore.

We need to start living in the 21st century, folks. Italian football is dead.

I know what you're trying to say here and I agree but it is certainly not simple especially for this group. We don't have enough movement from most players to play that type of football. Also I don't think we have enough passers to play that anyway. This team has been together for around 7 months now and only a couple of players have gelled together.

One of the biggest problems is that we have to decide once and for what Melo's role is. If he is classified as a destroyer, then he needs someone next to him to pass the ball and drop mommo. Otherwise we drop him because he certainly can't play as a distributor (or at least now).

But you have to agree Andy that even with the best possession football tactics or whatever, you still need some good defenders to do the job. Look at the Inter Chelsea game they all what you mentioned and were really compact but look the amount of last ditch tackling they still had to do and compare that with the likes of Grygera against Siena and Melo in the 2nd Fulham goal.

 

[cimenk]

1-4 to Bayern (elimination from the CL)
4-1 to Fulham (elimination from the EL)
Countless losses to average opposition throughout the course of the season.
Embarrassed and humiliated in every competition we have taken part in.

This is the most pathetic Juve I have ever seen; the worst Juventus team ever.

countless losses and the lost we had sometimes more than 1 goal margin, 1-3 and 0-2 against Palermo, 1-3 against Cagliari, Bari, 0-2 against Bordeaux, etc. Also lost at home is become a habit now like against Catania 1-2 and first loss in history against Chievo, not to forget screwed 3-0 lead against bottom rock team and blew away 3 goal lead against mid table EPL team.. This Juve team not just need the defense or good attacking player but also we need mentality

 

[Bianconero81]

The old defensive style, of Italians, is not dead. You cannot say that our defenders are near half as good as Gentile, Madlini, Cannavaro, Nesta and all the other great defenders, when they were in their prime.

Italian teams were the only ones able to defend so well, back in the old days, because Italy used to boast the best defenders and goalkeepers. Our best defender, Chiellini, is not even up to the task and seems like a Molinaro compared to the beasts we had before.

Chiellini is not a Molinaro compared to those guys you mentioned. Any of those defenders will be made to look worse off than they really are, when they have to cover for the retards we have patrolling our back line right now. Do you think Maldini, Nesta, or even Cannavaro in his prime (not this current turd) would have been able to hold up a defence comprising Grosso, Grygera, and the like? I highly doubt it.

As for you comment regarding defensive style, the reality is there aren't that many great defenders in world football anymore, especially not in Italy, so those defensive tactics can't work anymore, because you don't have the necessary tools to make such a system succeed. Fast paced, dynamic football, with interchanging roles, overlapping, and constant hustle and harrying are the order of the day. Hence, Premier League teams doing well and Serie A teams getting screwed royally.

 

[Bozi]

in all fairness we have all been saying for the last 3 years that the backline needed a revamp.....but they bought Poulsen.....then we screamed we needed the backline revamped...and they bought Melo


only Chiellini and Caceras should be here next season,sell Melo,or Sissoko and Poulsen,get a couple of full backs,another central defender and some wingers,we are trying to play a formation that requires quality from wide,which we don't have,we are trying to play a formation that allows Diego to play,instead it is boxing him in,we are trying to play long balls into Amauri when he needs distibution from the flanks


this Juventus has been built wrong,from back to front,MASSIVE changes are needed,unfortunately,i don;t think our board (save for Bettega) has the knowledge to steer us back on path

 

[IrishZebra]

We need to start living in the 21st century, folks. Italian football is dead.

It's the manner of death (suicide) that causes the most pain.

 

[zizoufan]

in all fairness we have all been saying for the last 3 years that the backline needed a revamp.....but they bought Poulsen.....then we screamed we needed the backline revamped...and they bought Melo


only Chiellini and Caceras should be here next season,sell Melo,or Sissoko and Poulsen,get a couple of full backs,another central defender and some wingers,we are trying to play a formation that requires quality from wide,which we don't have,we are trying to play a formation that allows Diego to play,instead it is boxing him in,we are trying to play long balls into Amauri when he needs distibution from the flanks


this Juventus has been built wrong,from back to front,MASSIVE changes are needed,unfortunately,i don;t think our board (save for Bettega) has the knowledge to steer us back on path

Well said . that resumes all my thought. Maybe we ,fans , know more in football than the board.

 

[Bozi]

we,the fans have seen the failings of this side for a few years

time has simply caught up with the few taht were holding it together

 

[only-juve]

we,the fans have seen the failings of this side for a few years

time has simply caught up with the few taht were holding it together

The one thing that i could never understand is how would any reasonable person (assuming the club owners are) would let a guy who had absolutely no knowledge about the game (blanc) to be the president of this club ?!

It's one of those really weird decisions that makes absolutely no sense.

 

[v1rtu4l]

i think the combination of the midfielders is very important ... i would choose poulsen to sit right infront of the defense, because he is the most positional-aware player of the dms ... meaning he will not go on attack and leave his spot .
his ability to play the direct pass would help if the opponent sets us under pressure and he receives the pass from the defenders and needs to get the ball as fast as possible to the midfielders..

on the half left position (a bit like in a diamond 4 midfielders) i would play sissoko with the ability to roam around and put early pressure on the opponents to hinder them on playing a aimed pass to the forwards and on the half right position i'd play marchisio because he is mobile and has something creative in him.

melo would come into action as sub for poulsen if the defense is not that tested or as sub for marchisio, when we need mor physicality

 

[tibike]

i think the combination of the midfielders is very important ... i would choose poulsen to sit right infront of the defense, because he is the most positional-aware player of the dms ... meaning he will not go on attack and leave his spot .
his ability to play the direct pass would help if the opponent sets us under pressure and he receives the pass from the defenders and needs to get the ball as fast as possible to the midfielders..

on the half left position (a bit like in a diamond 4 midfielders) i would play sissoko with the ability to roam around and put early pressure on the opponents to hinder them on playing a aimed pass to the forwards and on the half right position i'd play marchisio because he is mobile and has something creative in him.

melo would come into action as sub for poulsen if the defense is not that tested or as sub for marchisio, when we need mor physicality

We don't really have problems with DMs. Basically any two of the four (Marchisio, Sissoko, Melo, Poulsen) can play together. Playing three of them means Diego has to attack basically by himself, and that is very easy to defend against.

Our problems are: weak fullbacks and no players that Diego can pass the ball to. Both of them are solved by using the 4-2-3-1: the wingers both help defending the flanks and help Diego in the attacking phase. But that, of course, means benching Del Piero.

And yes, we basically played the 4-2-3-1 against Fulham, and we were playing OK until the red card, since when Diego and Camo played on opposite sides, and thus too far away from each other to exchange passes between themselves.

And to add something on topic: I don't think defensive football is dead, but by playing 3 DMs in the 4-3-1-2 is simply insane. You sacrifice attacking options, while having 3 midfielders defending both the flanks and the centre. If you want to play defensive football, why not play a flat 4-4-2, where you have four midfielders defending the whole width, or a 4-1-4-1. Our problem is not playing defensive football, our problem is that our managers want to play both Diego and Del Piero so much, they come up with ridiculous ideas.