Preview : Italy vs Finland (1 Viewer)

Stu · Mar 31, 2003

Here's my ideal lineup:

------------------------------- Buffon -------------------------------
---- Panucci ------- Nesta --------------- Canna ------- Zambro ----
---------------- Tacchi --------------------------- Ambro -----------------
---- Camo -------------------- Totti ------------------------ DP ----
--------------------------------- Vieri ----------------------------------

mate · Apr 1, 2003

Consider that the last match we playied 4-4-2 not any other modul... it could be seen also during the match but they analized it also in the DS: Camo and Del Vecchio played as a wingers and Totti in front with Vieri.

Fiore prefer to play in the center, sometimes he play as a wing also in Lazio but unfortunately in the same position of Camo... He may take the place of one of the central mieldfilders, actually. A mielfield with Camo-Fiore-xxx-Del Vecchio won't be bad, maybe is not so covered but it can be tryed.

denco · Apr 1, 2003

Don't think Dp will figure in Trap's starting lineup as the system Trap wants to play is based on one striker with Totti behind and 2 ppl on the wings and more importantly for the wingers they must know how to defend. The problem with this Italy is that they will get carried away by a fine performance by them forgetting that Finland like Ecuador in the wc were very poor and offered nothing going forward

If Dp plays the way he plays for Juve then I support him starting but if he is gonna be used as a winger or if he puts in one of his bad performances for Italy then he is best left on the bench

My biggest problem is and will always be in the midfield where the likes of Perrotta, Zanetti, Di Biagio, Gatusso and Tomassi offer very little at the very highest level and Fiore must be very unlucky to not be considered good enuff becos he is not a water carrier

Panucci and Zambrotta against better teams will put Italy in serious trouble as full backs

mate · Apr 1, 2003

Also 4 Inzaghi it will be trouble to find a place... He and DP can find it just with 4-3-1-2 or with some players injured cause Totti and Vieri are untochable (and nobody can blame it).
Looks like that Inzaghi is not taking it too well.
4 me is no doubt that Totti and Vieri are one step up that DP and Inzaghi the "not nice thing" is that they are used 4 not so big matchs (while the others prefer to rest) and will never have space in big competions... Inzaghi do not have the overcalm DP personality and I will not be surprise if he will refuse calls from Trapattoni... it's also "sospected" that he did it also this time vs Finland: he asked if he will be in the starting eleven and when he discovered he wuolud go to the bench he said "so I won't come". But that just a press rumor... officialy he was injured... but actually in the match vs Juventus I didn't notice it...

I agree that it's not a good idea to make some players in a role who do not fit them in the NT just cause this or that club or sponsor "will be happy" to see his player in the field. Trapattoni (and many others CT before too) did it often and the NT payed it badly... I just hope he won't do it anymore... it's embarassing 4 the players and it damage the team.

Tom · Apr 1, 2003

IMO this formation is ridiculous for Italy to use, as it is for juventus too. With front players like Del Piero, Vieri and Totti it would be a crime not to pick all three. Just imagine the possibilities!

mate · Apr 1, 2003

It depends...
Not always putting more fowards in the field it means playing more aggressivly and better.
Look at the WC the only match Italy played good was the first weare it was a 4-4-2, than Trapattoni tried to change and the disaster began, and also in Inter this year happened the same they weare doing good with 2 fowards than Cuper tried with 3 and they started loosing. What is better depends on the carateristic of every player from the defenders to the fowards a modul is never necessarly better than an other 4 every team.
IMO it's important that Italy find a formation (4-4-2, 4-3-1-4, 4-2-3-1 or whatever...) and insist on it, cause changing every match is not taking us anyweare.

denco · Apr 1, 2003

You have to remember that the mentality of the manager is and has always been negative, he calls it a real Madrid formation but Real madrid's formation is positive not a negative one, its designed to dominate teams not to contain or hit on the break

Playing Dp Totti and Vieri is possible if you have it in mind to beat teams not to think of the balance of the team and all that negative nonsense

The problem with Inter is not that they are playing 3 forwards is that they are playing Recoba on the left with 2 strikers and he is supposed to defend as well so thats not really playing positive football

If you remember the game against South Korea, Dp was actually playing on the left helping out Coco, whats the point in that, it just spoils the side and means Trap just played those 3 to please the press but didn't play them correctly.

Italy need to find a decent left back , find a way of incoporating Fiore in the midfield, and have the attitude of beating teams not containing or playing counter attack

I honestly believe that if they do attack teams any team they will win as they showed in euro2000 final where they attacked France and created the most chances but too much fear and negativity stops them from utilising thier potential

The likes of Miccolli, Pirlo, Fiore will always be playing a bit part while Panucci, Perrotta,zanetti, gatusso and Tomassi keep playing big parts and thats a huge shame as these guys have little to offer on the internatinal stage

Stu · Apr 2, 2003

As I have stated many times before, I think that this Italy team should be built around it's three most influential attacking players: Totti, Del Piero and Vieri.

Imo, the best way in which to incorporate all three of these wondrous talents would be to use a 3-4-1-2 system.

In these days up to scratch Italian wingbacks are becoming ever difficult to come by, so this would be prompt me as a coach to try out a three man defence. Bonera/Legrottaglie would link up with Nesta and Cannavaro in my defence. The outside right position would be taken up by either Camoranesi or Fiore, most probably Camo as he would provide more defensive cover for the back three than Fiore would, and in the centre of midfield would be Tacchinardi/Gattuso partnered by Pirlo/Ambrosini. There's most definetely a problem on the left hand side for us, but I would try to solve this by thrusting Delvecchio or Di Natale in there, and if they proved too attacking minded, then Zambrotta or Coco. The other three players in the scheme would be Totti, DP and Vieri ...

What do you guys think of my tactics, and since Trapattoni surely wont use them, who do you think would be the best man to groom a squad of this sort?

mate · Apr 2, 2003

Not sure that 4-3-1-2 is the best...
About the "new" formation that all of you look disliking, what to say? It look it work... ok we won just a friendly vs Portugal and a QE vs Finland with it... but thinking that lately we didn't win nearly with nobody it's a first step.
I see that many of you think that more fowards are in the field more it's better, but that is not always true actually... results are speaking! Probably Italy get scared when is not covered and become more difensive than before or maybe we do not have enought quality mildfielder so the 3 fowards are useless cause they will not recive balls anycase or who knows... but one thing is sure: it was such a disaster!

An other thing: in this forum nobody consider Inzaghi I know

but bear in mind that in Italy things are different.

Agree that ther's problems in the left hand side, cause I'm not sure that Del Vecchio (nor Di Natale) could contrast if we will face somebody really good. An other Camo 4 the other side is needed

Stu · Apr 2, 2003

I never said anything about a 4-3-1-2, and nor did I say anything about the more forwards the better, but the truth in most situations is that the more attacking minded players you have on the pitch, the more attacking you will play.

And btw, I don't dislike the 4-2-3-1 formation at all, actually I quite like it, but the reality in it is that Trapattoni is a defensive coach and he wouldn't be caught dead playing with Fiore, Totti, Del Piero and Vieri in the same lineup.

Therefore, Trap will most likely leave out DP who is our 2nd most creative asset, because he cannot defend as well as Delvecchio, and Fiore, who also isn't as defensively capable as his competition for a starting spot, Camoranesi.

Stu · Apr 2, 2003

Another thing, the reason why Real Madrid are able to bring out the best of a 4-2-3-1 formation is because (as Denco said earlier) they attack teams with their 2 wide players, not try to contain and counter.

With Figo and Zidane coming at you attack after attack it's only going to be a matter of time before you concede, and I think it could be the same with Fiore and Del Piero.

mate · Apr 2, 2003

Usually 4-3-1-2 is my favourite modul actually, is just that it not always fit with every team and it failed with Italian team. 4-2-3-1 is good too, but in the last 2 match Trap announced it, but he played 4-4-2... cause Camo and Del Vecchio played in the wings.
4 me the biggest problem is that Trapattoni tryed everythig and he's always changing choosing different thigs depending on the team we met and even on what newspaper say.... So the first step is to find a formation and conferm it.
IMO Trap had be saked right after the disastrous WC, but now is sure that they won't do it so we schould try to see the "positives things" and the first is: the NT went so down that it can't go worst. That's why I do not see why to complain now... we won 2 matchs one after the other! It was so long that it didn't happen... looks like a miracle. We cannot complain now, considering that we were coming from a period in which even some Under 16 team had a chance to win vs the azzurri... so we are improuving! We cannot pretend to jump from 0 to 10, if there will be a reconstruaction it will be gradual. Now we did a small step is better than nothing...

Stu · Apr 2, 2003

I think Trap's idea of the 4-2-3-1 is different to yours mate.

In Trap's Italy, Camoranesi and Delvecchio play as attacking wingers, so he considers them sorta like AMs ... Imo Lippi does the same thing when he plays this tactic: Camo wide right, DV wide left ..

mate · Apr 2, 2003

I know

To me onestly it seems like he's playing a 4-4-2 and he's calling him 4-2-3-1...
They analized the match vs finland with the computer in "la domenica sportiva making an avarage of the positions of the players and it was exately like this... Del Vecchio and Camo played wide at the wings and Totti in the front almost at the same "altitude" of Vieri.

IMO the difference is that Neddy play really behind Treze and Di Vaio do not stay at the wing he just start from that but he mouve more also in the center and in the front while Del Vecchio mostly "bring the water" up and down.

Preview : Italy vs Finland (1 Viewer)

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