Paulo Dybala (68 Viewers)

[Nedved96]

You're getting lost in your own sauce lol

Alright lets simplify it.

2015/16: BBBC and Dybala were all amazing
2016/17: see above
2017/18: Bonucci leaves to Milan where he is shit. Buffon and Barzagli begin to slow down. Dybala and Chiellini still amazing.
2018/19: Bonucci shits the bed, Dybala is played out of position but is not good, Chiellini still amazing, Barzagli completely finished. Buffon leaves to PSG.

I can only see an argument for Chiellini being overall better than Dybala in the last four years, the rest don't have a case.

Between Dybala and Chiellini, Chiellini always played his favourite position (left-sided CB) while Dybala was moved and shuffled between forward, midfielder and winger.

 

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[Hust]

Doesn't the 2014/15 season count? Still in the 4-5 year time frame...and, BBC/Buffon were all WC then too.

First establish the years because your argument is shifting. Dybala wasn't here then but they were and they were amazing.

 

[Nedved96]

Doesn't the 2014/15 season count? Still in the 4-5 year time frame...and, BBC/Buffon were all WC then too.

You are desperate to cherry-pick about the time-frame because you have nothing productive to add. Dybala has been overall our best player since he got here in the summer of 2015 (tied with Chiellini).

Also, here's another fun fact that I'm sure you will enjoy:

Dybala is has scored the most goals for Juventus in the 2010s decade (83), at least 25 more than anyone else.

 

[Hust]

You are desperate to cherry-pick about the time-frame because you have nothing productive to add. Dybala has been overall our best player since he got here in the summer of 2015 (tied with Chiellini).

Also, here's another fun fact that I'm sure you will enjoy:

Dybala is has scored the most goals for Juventus in the 2010s decade (83), at least 25 more than anyone else.

Yep. And he wouldn't have done close to that if our defense wasn't as good as it was. Keep throwing stuff out, you'll get something to stick eventually.

Tied with Chiellini

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Those CBs could have been paired with anyone and still produce the same fantastic results AND make weaker CBs look good in the process during that time and not take over an entire season to get back to playing well. Hell, if a player can only do well himself but can't bring other players to raise their game, are they really that good?

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You could even put MDS & Asamoah next to them and they would have still achieved the same results.

Anyway, you lost the argument debate (don't want to trigger you) when you said tied with Chiellini.

 

[Nedved96]

Those CBs could have been paired with anyone and still produce the same fantastic results AND make weaker CBs look good in the process during that time and not take over an entire season to get back to playing well.

You are talking about Bonucci, right?

 

[Hust]

Bonucci left the club, came back and was jeered instantly and that took a long time to shake off, yes. Dybala never left, kept getting playing time and faith from the club/coach. This season, both have turned over a new leaf and epstein didn't kill himself

 

[Nedved96]

Yep. And he wouldn't have done close to that if our defense wasn't as good as it was. Keep throwing stuff out, you'll get something to stick eventually.

You're going to credit our defense for Dybala scoring so many goals, really?

Paulo was Serie A's top assist provider in 2014/15 at Palermo. He's just good, regardless of the defense behind him.

 

[Hust]

At Palermo. Not Juventus. Does not fit initial parameters of your argument. Cannot compute.

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Saying he is tied with Chiellini is like trying to divide by zero.

 

[Nedved96]

Saying he is tied with Chiellini is like trying to divide by zero.

It really isn't, the only difference between them is that Chiellini was not forced to play in midfield for an entire season.

In 15/16, 16/17 and 17/18 they were just as important as each other.

 

[Hust]

Dybala was 2nd in our team for average shots per game (behind Ronaldo)...hardly indicative of an attacker having to play midfielder. Oh noooes he had to drop back more often to get the ball..


He posted almost double shots per game than Mandzukic who only played as striker (and almost the same minutes played). This tit for tat is fun, at least I know you can swim.

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Cool though. Bitch about Dybala sucking when played out of position but for other players that it happeed to and STILL succeeded (Mario, Asamoah, Cuadrado, etc) it sorta makes your argument suck a little more than when you said he was tied with Chiellini.

Dybala could not mentally handle the pressure last season. Deal with it.

 

[Post Ironic]

Yeah, because that’s the same as a forward being forced to play in midfield.

Again, none of our defenders would perform any better in midfield than Dybala would, because it’s not his natural position.

In 15/16, 16/17, and 17/18 Dybala basically had three seasons in a row where he was our biggest goal threat and most creative player rolled into one.

We played our worst football by far in the second half of 2018/19, which was coincidentally the worst form of Dybala’s career. Coincidence? Nope, we have been reliant on his creativity for years.

We were relegation form in the first 10 games of 2015/16, and our season turned around when Allegri integrated Dybala in the team.

while I definitely agree that Dybala has been up there with Chiellini as our best player from when he arrived in 2015-onward... (Bonucci and Higuain too, but for shorter time periods obviously)

The last sentence is wrong. Dybala was thrust into a starter role in 15-16 immediately. He played in 9/10 of the first games, starting 7 of them. The only one he didn’t play was the 2-0 away win at Genoa. He was actually the only one doing anything in attack in that period in serie a. 4 goals-2 assists. It wasn’t a slow integration like others, Allegri made him starter from the beginning (in CL was a different story).

The turnaround that season was more a case of Pogba finally finding form after a disastrous start, and Marchisio returning from injury as he was out for all the 4 losses. Our midfield was such gash to start that season with Claudio out and Khedira going down to injury in the preseason (missed all 4 losses too). We were starting Hernanes + Sturaro/Lemina alongside Pogba in those first couple months

 

[Nedved96]

This entire discussion is worth a thread of its own

Juve XI of the 2010s decade

Dybala was 2nd in our team for average shots per game (behind Ronaldo)...hardly indicative of an attacker having to play midfielder. Oh noooes he had to drop back more often to get the ball..

He posted almost double shots per game than Mandzukic who only played as striker (and almost the same minutes played). This tit for tat is fun, at least I know you can swim.

Dybala takes a lot more speculative shots than someone like Mandzukic, so this doesn’t surprise me at all. You only have to look at Dybala’s heat maps last season to see how deep he was playing.

Cool though. Bitch about Dybala sucking when played out of position but for other players that it happeed to and STILL succeeded (Mario, Asamoah, Cuadrado, etc)

None of those players are Chiellini, therefore your argument is irrelevant.

Unless we see Chiellini play an entire season in midfield and still play at a high level, the argument that Chiellini is more consistent on the basis of 2018/19 is meaningless.

Dybala could not mentally handle the pressure last season. Deal with it.

Wait, how was the pressure that season any different from the pressure in his other seasons for Juve?

 

[Mokku]

The view from England is that if Juve score first it's all over because they'll see out the rest of the game even over two legs. My view has for many seasons been that if Juve concede in the CL they won't be able to overturn the result.

 

[Post Ironic]

The view from England is that if Juve score first it's all over because they'll see out the rest of the game even over two legs. My view has for many seasons been that if Juve concede in the CL they won't be able to overturn the result.

A number of counter examples in both directions, bro.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

The view from England is that if Juve score first it's all over because they'll see out the rest of the game even over two legs. My view has for many seasons been that if Juve concede in the CL they won't be able to overturn the result.

Our last CL match

 

[Nedved96]

The view from England is that if Juve score first it's all over because they'll see out the rest of the game even over two legs. My view has for many seasons been that if Juve concede in the CL they won't be able to overturn the result.

The Ro16 against Tottenham a few seasons ago disagrees.

In Turin we scored two goals in rapid succession, then ended up conceding twice and drew.
At Wembley we conceded first, then scored twice and went through anyway.

 

[Hængebøffer]

The view from England is that if Juve score first it's all over because they'll see out the rest of the game even over two legs. My view has for many seasons been that if Juve concede in the CL they won't be able to overturn the result.

That’s because they never watch us play and then fall too the typical stereotypical Italian football view. A lot of members here did too under Allegri. That’s one of the respons why I say they’re plastic fans who knows shit about the club. At Red Café most of their members Don’t want Allegri, cause they think he’s an Italian Mourinho. That shows how little they watched us play.

Yes, Allegri can make the team park the bus, but that not his philosophy. It’s just one of his many pragmatic approaches to a game. We never (post Calciopoli) had the finances to build an all in attcking team, but let’s be honest. No team plays like this these day.

 

[Mokku]

My point is that Juve has a reputation for having a solid defence more than anything. I'm saying that when we go behind I personally feel that we can't bring back the result probably because we don't have that English never give up attitude. Apart from the 1-3 in Madrid or the final loss to Barcelona we always go out on a whimper.

 

[Hængebøffer]

My point is that Juve has a reputation for having a solid defence more than anything. I'm saying that when we go behind I personally feel that we can't bring back the result probably because we don't have that English never give up attitude. Apart from the 1-3 in Madrid or the final loss to Barcelona we always go out on a whimper.

But that’s not true (just like people pointed out). From the games in the CL only:

Bayern
Tottenham
Real
Atlético

 

[Mokku]

The moment Bayern got their goal it was curtains for us, each time they went forward they looked like scoring so we lost control. The final against Madrid we were never in control, we would never win that type of game.

The match in Madrid where we went looking for extra time coming up to 0-3, that was our downfall and the moment was lost but a commendable effort. Our performance against Barcelona in the final was great but their team was superb.

Atletico did a Juve type of performance, it was a woeful performance by them and we were good. Spurs we should beat 9 out 10 times. In Turin when we played Ajax, the writing was on the wall that we could never overturn that result while Spurs with pure determination managed to knock them out.