Paulo Dybala - ST - Palermo (41 Viewers)
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So you think we'll get him?
IMO we will make a move for Falcao when Tevez eventually leaves. Would be a typical great man move
yeah, hes not even close to Raul, but i havent seen anyone say that either. probably missed those posts
yep, messi is a few realms under him, Cassano (Roma) level at best. but seriously, you cant compare players from different eras so easily. you have to take all factors into consideration. the strength of the era (Del Pieros > Messis), the strength of the league (DPs > Messis), the strength of your team compared to other teams of that era (Barcelona /and Spain, which shows what a team Messi had around him/ 2008-2012 was too strong for any other team of that time), the quality of other great players from your era (again. DPs era > Messis), the style of play your team uses and the teams use against you (DP had it much harder), the number of great teams/rivals you had (DPs > Messis) etc. ofcourse, if you look at stats only, Messis career seems more impressive, but thats not the way players should be compared. in fact, there is no way we can compare them, there can only be preferences and opinions on who is better/greater/whatever.
heres a thought for example, imagine Del Piero in the 2008-20012 Barcelona instead of Messi, and see the result (IMO DP still wouldnt score as much as Messi, simply because he plays differently, but i think they wouldnt lose to Inter 2010 and Chelsea 2012 with DP-Etoo/Ibra/Villa upfront, also that 2012 classico had Del Piero written all over it, hes the type of player to decide such games). also try to imagine messi in any Juve team (Lippis, Capellos, Serie B, post Calciopoli) Del Piero played in.
taking the factors into consideration i mentioned above, Del Piero is definitely the better football player to me, but Messi achieved more (individually) due to given circumstances, not superiority in talent/quality.
yep, messi is a few realms under him, Cassano (Roma) level at best
. but seriously, you cant compare players from different eras so easily. you have to take all factors into consideration. the strength of the era (Del Pieros > Messis), the strength of the league (DPs > Messis), the strength of your team compared to other teams of that era (Barcelona /and Spain, which shows what a team Messi had around him/ 2008-2012 was too strong for any other team of that time), the quality of other great players from your era (again. DPs era > Messis), the style of play your team uses and the teams use against you (DP had it much harder), the number of great teams/rivals you had (DPs > Messis) etc. ofcourse, if you look at stats only, Messis career seems more impressive, but thats not the way players should be compared. in fact, there is no way we can compare them, there can only be preferences and opinions on who is better/greater/whatever.heres a thought for example, imagine Del Piero in the 2008-20012 Barcelona instead of Messi, and see the result (IMO DP still wouldnt score as much as Messi, simply because he plays differently, but i think they wouldnt lose to Inter 2010 and Chelsea 2012 with DP-Etoo/Ibra/Villa upfront, also that 2012 classico had Del Piero written all over it, hes the type of player to decide such games). also try to imagine messi in any Juve team (Lippis, Capellos, Serie B, post Calciopoli) Del Piero played in.
taking the factors into consideration i mentioned above, Del Piero is definitely the better football player to me, but Messi achieved more (individually) due to given circumstances, not superiority in talent/quality.
Even if for the sake of argument we do grant that alex was the best of his generation and that all those historical factors only obtain for him, the gulf in quality between Messi and Alex is just too huge.
Alex, like Messi, played for top teams and was supported by insanely talented players all his career barring his last 3 years with us. And sure I will grant that its tougher to score a decade ago than now and all that. But look at the gap in numbers. Alex reached the 25 goals mark in all competitions only once in 1998.
Messi has been scoring over 40 goals per season every year for 7 years now. This includes seasons where he scores 53, 60 and 73 goals. You need to multiply alex's best season ever by 3 to get Messi's best. Thats just an insane gulf that no change in football over a decade can account for. Again this is not counting assists. Exaggerate the change in football in those 15 years all you want but that gulf of 3 multiples is just too big be accounted for to say that both players are equals let alone say that Alex was better.
So even if I grant all you assumptions (which can all be strongly argued against), the gap is too big for you to reasonably say they are equals let alone that Alex is better.
Why you assume that strikers from previous generations are better than current ones is beyond me. The game is much faster, the players are much more athletic, the tactics have evolved and involve much more tricks, Fitness doctors can now get more out of a single player than they could before, the pitches are better, training and dieting is better, the shoes and the ball itself are better, the stadiums are larger and more noisy, the salaries are higher, more people are watching the game and more media are reporting on it. Italian football is struggling because it hasn't evolved with the rest and is following the same methods of the 90s. Thats one way to question your assumptions but even without doing that, you need the 15 year gap to diminish Messi's quality by more than 3 multiples to be able to say Alex is better.
Yeah. I was over-simplifying it. I was just trying to say that all players carry some risk of flopping, regardless of price. Of course the potential monetary loss from a player like Bale or Di Maria flopping is so immense that they're pretty sure things coming off several good seasons.
Dybala costing 1/3-1/2 of the price has a much higher chance of flopping... But as he is young and performing quite well already the chance is slimmer than say an Amauri who had his one good season at say 25. It's much more likely in my opinion for it to be an outlier when your first good season is in mid-20s, than with someone who starts tearing it up at 20-22 years old before they even reach their physical peak. But that's the reason Dybala and Anderson are worth so much even though they don't have much history to say they consistently perform as a top player.
It will be interesting to see how they turn out, especially if we manage to snag one of them.
Nope, the same old story will happen. We'll be linked with him from now until about mid-July, when Zamparini will announce that he won't be sold for anything under 30M or whatever, Marotta will publicly announce that we were never involved in negotiations for the player, and he'll end up at Arsenal (or another rich EPL/Spanish club)
IMO we will make a move for Falcao when Tevez eventually leaves. Would be a typical great man move
IMO we will make a move for Falcao when Tevez eventually leaves. Would be a typical great man move
And you think we will make a move for falcao.
Contradiction.
Yeah. I was over-simplifying it. I was just trying to say that all players carry some risk of flopping, regardless of price. Of course the potential monetary loss from a player like Bale or Di Maria flopping is so immense that they're pretty sure things coming off several good seasons.
Dybala costing 1/3-1/2 of the price has a much higher chance of flopping... But as he is young and performing quite well already the chance is slimmer than say an Amauri who had his one good season at say 25. It's much more likely in my opinion for it to be an outlier when your first good season is in mid-20s, than with someone who starts tearing it up at 20-22 years old before they even reach their physical peak. But that's the reason Dybala and Anderson are worth so much even though they don't have much history to say they consistently perform as a top player.
It will be interesting to see how they turn out, especially if we manage to snag one of them.
Anderson seems better to me though. I like his decision making and flair more.
my only downside of this kid is that he got this arrogant asshole vibe like Cr7, which i don't like.. but this kids will be even better with time. i would say get risk of paying him 40m instead of 25m or even 30m for falcao.
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Anderson seems better to me though. I like his decision making and flair more.
i like anderson too! but people say we can't do shopping in lazio. they hate us.
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Anderson seems better to me though. I like his decision making and flair more.
Are they mad about Licht & Pavel?
We rarely do business with them though. I wonder what the real reason is. All well. We need to get used to the fact no one likes us. Well, maybe Sassuolo does.
We rarely do business with them though. I wonder what the real reason is. All well. We need to get used to the fact no one likes us. Well, maybe Sassuolo does.
It's strange, for we have done a few transfers with them, without a lot of hoopla, or upset about them dealing with us, like when we try to deal with Fiorentina, Napoli, or Inter.
Udinese and Sassuolo.
yeah, hes not even close to Raul, but i havent seen anyone say that either. probably missed those posts
yep, messi is a few realms under him, Cassano (Roma) level at best. but seriously, you cant compare players from different eras so easily. you have to take all factors into consideration. the strength of the era (Del Pieros > Messis), the strength of the league (DPs > Messis), the strength of your team compared to other teams of that era (Barcelona /and Spain, which shows what a team Messi had around him/ 2008-2012 was too strong for any other team of that time), the quality of other great players from your era (again. DPs era > Messis), the style of play your team uses and the teams use against you (DP had it much harder), the number of great teams/rivals you had (DPs > Messis) etc. ofcourse, if you look at stats only, Messis career seems more impressive, but thats not the way players should be compared. in fact, there is no way we can compare them, there can only be preferences and opinions on who is better/greater/whatever.
heres a thought for example, imagine Del Piero in the 2008-20012 Barcelona instead of Messi, and see the result (IMO DP still wouldnt score as much as Messi, simply because he plays differently, but i think they wouldnt lose to Inter 2010 and Chelsea 2012 with DP-Etoo/Ibra/Villa upfront, also that 2012 classico had Del Piero written all over it, hes the type of player to decide such games). also try to imagine messi in any Juve team (Lippis, Capellos, Serie B, post Calciopoli) Del Piero played in.
taking the factors into consideration i mentioned above, Del Piero is definitely the better football player to me, but Messi achieved more (individually) due to given circumstances, not superiority in talent/quality.
yep, messi is a few realms under him, Cassano (Roma) level at best
. but seriously, you cant compare players from different eras so easily. you have to take all factors into consideration. the strength of the era (Del Pieros > Messis), the strength of the league (DPs > Messis), the strength of your team compared to other teams of that era (Barcelona /and Spain, which shows what a team Messi had around him/ 2008-2012 was too strong for any other team of that time), the quality of other great players from your era (again. DPs era > Messis), the style of play your team uses and the teams use against you (DP had it much harder), the number of great teams/rivals you had (DPs > Messis) etc. ofcourse, if you look at stats only, Messis career seems more impressive, but thats not the way players should be compared. in fact, there is no way we can compare them, there can only be preferences and opinions on who is better/greater/whatever.heres a thought for example, imagine Del Piero in the 2008-20012 Barcelona instead of Messi, and see the result (IMO DP still wouldnt score as much as Messi, simply because he plays differently, but i think they wouldnt lose to Inter 2010 and Chelsea 2012 with DP-Etoo/Ibra/Villa upfront, also that 2012 classico had Del Piero written all over it, hes the type of player to decide such games). also try to imagine messi in any Juve team (Lippis, Capellos, Serie B, post Calciopoli) Del Piero played in.
taking the factors into consideration i mentioned above, Del Piero is definitely the better football player to me, but Messi achieved more (individually) due to given circumstances, not superiority in talent/quality.
You are such a biased person. Nobody other than a Juve fan would even dare say Del Piero is as good as Messi or C.Ronaldo for that matter. As Hist rightfully said, DP wasn't even the best player in his generation, not even close actually. The guy was a Juve legend, no doubt about it, and his loyalty to the club plus his consistency and majestic ability endeared him to Juve fans more than most other players, but you have to at least try and keep your emotions in check.
The ironic thing is, I'm sure you're one of those who criticize Messi for his form with the Argentine NT(and rightfully so, I don't disagree here) , yet if you're trying to further a DP agenda, that doesn't make sense. DP was benched for the Italian NT in quite a few tournaments, something you will probably conveniently forget.
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