Paul Pogba (138 Viewers)

[ADP1897]

Of course it's an issue. Tevez is a physical beast, while Higuain has great movement but most of all, being a CF is relatively not as physically demanding as a wingers/full backs. Depay doesn't have anything but a good long shot. You can't be an overweight winger in 2017.

Okay that was a stupid comparison, made in a heat of moment, i apologize.



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[Dostoevsky]

Tevez and Higuain both overweight? They can't even be compared. Tevez is explosive and having those kgs suits him in every way possible. Can't say the same about Pipita.

 

[Xperd]

Re-read some of the posts. Did he just say United had a vastly better mercato ?

I think you need to find a new forum dude. Enough banter for today.

 

[ADP1897]

Tevez and Higuain both overweight? They can't even be compared. Tevez is explosive and having those kgs suits him in every way possible. Can't say the same about Pipita.

Conte refuse to play him until he losses some iirc.

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[United#7]

Okay that was a stupid comparison, made in a heat of moment, i apologize.



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No problem, cheers :rock:

 

[Xperd]

I agree, but he's fantastic at it. Schneiderlin's problem is his lack of versatility, AND the fact that his supposed strengths aren't even that good. Everton is his level.



Of course it's an issue. Tevez is a physical beast, while Higuain has great movement but most of all, being a CF is relatively not as physically demanding as a wingers/full backs. Depay doesn't have anything but a good long shot. You can't be an overweight winger in 2017.



Even Thiago aside, I still don't think he's breaking into the starting XI, while I will most definitely not play Pjanic over Kroos and Modric.



In fairness to Roman, he did show patience this year. Again, let's wait and see once they hit their first rough patch. They didn't fly out the blocks this year, but I wouldn't say they struggled. I don't think they ever fell past 6th place before they hit their stride.

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Pogba had 32 apps for you in his first year, just 2 less than Marchisio and 6 less than Pirlo. I wouldn't call that a bench player at all. Also had 5 goals which is just 3 less than Pjanic last year, and more than all but two of his seasons at Roma.

I personally feel that 13/14 and 14/15 are Pogba's best seasons so far, though I do acknowledge that his best overall stretch was the one last year after Marchisio returned. He was majestic once the shackles were released.



Fair enough, but I personally disagree. Even if you account for them having different responsibilities in their respective teams, I honestly can't see Pjanic carrying the burden that Pogba did for us this year, and no, this isn't some PL-based exceptionalism. We relied more on him than we did Zlatan, and that says a lot.

Enough with the Google search.

He was behind the pecking order in the first season. Marchisio-Vidal-Pirlo was the preferred midfield trio. Dint start any big games that year. Now I'm convinced you don't watch any games and have only come here to troll.

Also Higuaín was the best player in the league last season NOT Pogba.

 

[United#7]

Enough with the Google search.

He was behind the pecking order in the first season. Marchisio-Vidal-Pirlo was the preferred midfield trio. Dint start any big games that year. Now I'm convinced you don't watch any games and have only come here to troll.

Yes I did Google, but only to verify. Yes I know he wasn't first choice, and yes, you're free to doubt me watching the games, but who actually says someone who made 32 apps is a bench player? If he really wasn't good, how did he match all but the two best seasons of Pjanic's Roma career in terms of goal count?

Really looks like you just can't afford to give him some credit because he no longer wears your jersey.

 

[ADP1897]

Yes I did Google, but only to verify. Yes I know he wasn't first choice, and yes, you're free to doubt me watching the games, but who actually says someone who made 32 apps is a bench player? If he really wasn't good, how did he match all but the two best seasons of Pjanic's Roma career in terms of goal count?

Really looks like you just can't afford to give him some credit because he no longer wears your jersey.

Because pjanic was never have Pogba's screamer, and his role at roma was to spread play, and let their winger to score/assist.

Pogba's Juventus never had any winger to spread play, so either goal/assist usually come from mid.

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[Xperd]

Yes I did Google, but only to verify. Yes I know he wasn't first choice, and yes, you're free to doubt me watching the games, but who actually says someone who made 32 apps is a bench player? If he really wasn't good, how did he match all but the two best seasons of Pjanic's Roma career in terms of goal count?

Really looks like you just can't afford to give him some credit because he no longer wears your jersey.

Because Pogba played in a left midfield advanced role for almost his entire Juve career. And why are you bringing up his Roma stats ? That was not the point of discussion. The debate was about who has been better between the two THIS SEASON. Besides Pjanić has played a variety of midfield roles in his career and it would be pretty silly to judge him on his goal count when he plays as a DLP now.

No it's not me NOT giving credit to Pogba. It's more about you not acknowledging the qualities of Pjanić and the influence he's had on Juve this year. Maybe if he dabbed or did promos on social media to improve his rep, maybe then you will recognise his class and brand him a more than just 'okay' midfielder it seems.

 

[United#7]

Because Pogba played in a left midfield advanced role for almost his entire Juve career. And why are you bringing up his Roma stats ? That was not the point of discussion.

I was merely pointing out that Pogba's year as a 'bench player' was just as productive as all but two seasons of Pjanic's career. Not my fault if you couldn't catch that.

The debate was about who has been better between the two THIS SEASON.

No it's not me NOT giving credit to Pogba. It's more about you not acknowledging the qualities of Pjanić and the influence he's had on Juve this year. Maybe if he dabbed or did promos on social media to improve his rep, maybe then you will recognise his class and brand him a more than just 'okay' midfielder it seems.

Regardless, I already said that I can't see Pjanic carrying as much of the burden on offense as Pogba did for us - of Alcantara for Bayern and Kroos/Modric for Madrid for that matter. Agree to disagree, but the truth is, only on Juventuz is Pjanic seen as an equal of Pogba. Even if you limit the comparison to just their performances last year.

Dragging his off field antics into this discussion like it really means anything. Cheap tactics.

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Because pjanic was never have Pogba's screamer, and his role at roma was to spread play, and let their winger to score/assist.

Pogba's Juventus never had any winger to spread play, so either goal/assist usually come from mid.

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Watched him a lot at Roma and he was never a dictator ala Xavi, Alonso or Scholes. He's more of a hybrid do-it-all type.

 

[Kopanja]

Watched him a lot at Roma and he was never a dictator ala Xavi, Alonso or Scholes. He's more of a hybrid do-it-all type.

This three are all almost completely different midfielders. Maybe Scholes and Xavi have something similar.
Pjanic this year actually looks a lot like Xavi, but with greater defensive output - soft touch, great dispatcher, rarely loses the ball even in a tight situation, great vertical passes, lot of movement.
I am not a big Xavi fan though, think he is overrated bit, because he played with magicians in Iniesta and Messi.

 

[ADP1897]

Yea, because the only style of playmaking was only xavi, alonso, or scholes.

At roma he sometimes also played a bit further up the pitch, and as somesort of mezalla with strootman, naingolan, and derossi, so idk which game you watch.

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[United#7]

This three are all almost completely different midfielders. Maybe Scholes and Xavi have something similar.
Pjanic this year actually looks a lot like Xavi, but with greater defensive output - soft touch, great dispatcher, rarely loses the ball even in a tight situation, great vertical passes, lot of movement.
I am not a big Xavi fan though, think he is overrated bit, because he played with magicians in Iniesta and Messi.

Before we continue, that was Roma Pjanic I was talking about

Agree though that JUVE Pjanic plays a lot like Xavi, more defensive leaning and also engages more for himself on the final third rather than creating.

As for the three... hmm, if we're really technical about it, they aren't not the same type of player, however the differences are small and rather inconsequential IMO (Alonso being more defensive, Scholes looking for his own shot more, Xavi better than both in his close control and finding awkward angles to pass from, just to name a few examples)

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Yea, because the only style of playmaking was only xavi, alonso, or scholes.

At roma he sometimes also played a bit further up the pitch, and as somesort of mezalla with strootman, naingolan, and derossi, so idk which game you watch.

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Not sure what's so hard to understand about that, but to put it in the simplest of terms: Roma Pjanic didn't focus on controlling the pace and flow of the game like the aforementioned three. Partly because he had more responsibilities, but also because he just couldn't to their extent.

Going back to my point, it's not like I was comparing Pogba to a 100% old school pure DLP. Pjanic was a lot more offensive minded that you make it to be.

 

[Ocelot]

Pogba has the potential to be vastly better than Pjanic could ever be. That's why he was so courted by the top clubs.

And he was doing great at Juve too. Was in contention for our best player of the season, even though I definitely wouldn't give him that title.

But right now, Pjanic hasn't played any worse than Pogba did for sure. I wouldn't call his season better than Paul's best one and they play different roles as well, but I wouldn't call it any worse either.

 

[Kopanja]

Pogba has the potential to be vastly better than Pjanic could ever be. That's why he was so courted by the top clubs.

Nah, Pjanic is not some scrub from my local pub team, he is top 3 CM this year alongside Modric and Veratti. And it's not like Pjanic is a rugged veteran and Pogba is some kind of prodigy, Mira is only 3 years older.
Pogba has a unique toolbox, no doubt, but I've always thought he has too much and he looks sometimes like Yaya - unique toolbox (big, strong, great shot etc.), but it makes him go too easy on himself. Pogba will be better than Yaya, of course, but that is not what expected of him. If Paul matures, like Ronaldo did for example - he is gonna be 100 mln CM, but Ronaldo is an ultimate competitor, idk about Pogba.

 

[Klin]

Tevez and Higuain both overweight? They can't even be compared. Tevez is explosive and having those kgs suits him in every way possible. Can't say the same about Pipita.

Why not?

 

[Dostoevsky]

Why not?

I think he'd play better if he loses 5kg. I wouldn't really call him fat, no, but I do think he has some extra weight which make him more lethargic.

 

[Klin]

I think he'd play better if he loses 5kg. I wouldn't really call him fat, no, but I do think he has some extra weight which make him more lethargic.

What's important is that he knows how to use his weight/strength to his advantage, plus he can be explosive at times too.

That goal against Roma is a clear example.

 

[ADP1897]

Before we continue, that was Roma Pjanic I was talking about

Agree though that JUVE Pjanic plays a lot like Xavi, more defensive leaning and also engages more for himself on the final third rather than creating.

As for the three... hmm, if we're really technical about it, they aren't not the same type of player, however the differences are small and rather inconsequential IMO (Alonso being more defensive, Scholes looking for his own shot more, Xavi better than both in his close control and finding awkward angles to pass from, just to name a few examples)

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Not sure what's so hard to understand about that, but to put it in the simplest of terms: Roma Pjanic didn't focus on controlling the pace and flow of the game like the aforementioned three. Partly because he had more responsibilities, but also because he just couldn't to their extent.

Going back to my point, it's not like I was comparing Pogba to a 100% old school pure DLP. Pjanic was a lot more offensive minded that you make it to be.

Ok.. you right, i was wrong..
Now i back to lurking

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[Post Ironic]

Pogba Serie A's best player voted by Man Utd fans

The guy is a delusional idiot. Posting constant rubbish. I love that he's so excited about a season where United finished 6th in their league and implying it's somehow more impressive than our 102 point scudetto because they won EL against a bunch of minnows.

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Pogba has the potential to be vastly better than Pjanic could ever be. That's why he was so courted by the top clubs.

And he was doing great at Juve too. Was in contention for our best player of the season, even though I definitely wouldn't give him that title.

But right now, Pjanic hasn't played any worse than Pogba did for sure. I wouldn't call his season better than Paul's best one and they play different roles as well, but I wouldn't call it any worse either.

Although I would say that's a slight exaggeration. Pjanic has a ceiling of top 5ish CM in football (even Allegri said top 3 ). Pogba of course has a ceiling of best in football.

As an aside, Pjanic was far better in European play both at Lyon and Roma and now at Juve than Pogba has ever been. Surprisingly, for a player who often vanished in big Serie A games for Roma he's been very good on European nights, everywhere he has played.