Paul Pogba (168 Viewers)

[Vlad]

why is it so hard for you to understand that scoring goals is way more important than defending? you can't win anything with just defending, not even a half match like in trofeo tim.

boasting strong defense and organizations mean nothing if you can't outscore the opponent.

I would always prefer 1-0 results to 4-3 or other high scoring games when we're involved. Sure I like to see that later type of game when others are playing and although I like teams to attack, to have classy players, fancy moves, actions, but not at the expense of good defensive organization. Well, that's probably why I like the Italian football in the first place.

 

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[JuveJay]

Problem with winning 4-3 is that you're just as likely to lose 4-3, you're not in control of the game.

 

[Vlad]

Exactly this, no control over the game. I remember the beginning of 1998/99 season and the first game vs Perrugia, it finished 4-3 and immediately I knew how much we'll struggle that year.

 

[Bianconero81]

We reached the Semis of the CL that same season

Obviously we sucked in Serie A tho

 

[Vlad]

Yes we had 5 draws and 1 win, the win was achieved in the last round, then favorable draw in the quarters vs some Greek team. But in the long run, in Serie A, we failed to accomplish anything.

 

[napoleonic]

Problem with winning 4-3 is that you're just as likely to lose 4-3, you're not in control of the game.

Exactly this, no control over the game. I remember the beginning of 1998/99 season and the first game vs Perrugia, it finished 4-3 and immediately I knew how much we'll struggle that year.

and why would that be any different with 1-0? being able to take a 1-0 lead but unable to do anything else but absorbing pressure and opponent's attacks also still have high probability to concede and lose.


no matter how anyone try to stir it up, the rule of the game dictates that you need to attack and score to win anything.

 

[Vlad]

I'm not talking solely about absorbing the pressure and allowing opponents to create chances, but in fact with good defensive organization, closing the space in dangerous areas, you prevent this and then attack meaningfully without too much dwelling on the ball. Lippi's second spell, very direct football; I suggest you to watch few games from that era, I'll point you to the semis vs Real to get better insight.

 

[Xperd]

Bayern Munich have a mix of everything.Grinta,defense,versatility and most importantly brilliant attackers who work hard.And they are predominantly an attacking side who have conceded very less goals in the last 2 seasons.

Juventus needs more attacking prowess.I've always maintained that.The current system is a bit defense oriented and built towards protecting the most creative player on the team.

 

[Vlad]

Bayern Munich have a mix of everything.Grinta,defense,versatility and most importantly brilliant attackers who work hard.And they are predominantly an attacking side who have conceded very less goals in the last 2 seasons.

Juventus needs more attacking prowess.I've always maintained that.The current system is a bit defense oriented and built towards protecting the most creative player on the team.

Not arguing that. We definitely need something more in attack as we're very predictable side to face.

 

[Xperd]

If their defense has a bad day,Bayern have the tools to outscore the opposition but the same cant be said about Juventus.And this season the defense has had a lot of bad days then normal hence the struggle particularly in Europe..

 

[Ocelot]

Just look at any leagur winner at any of the major leagues during the last five years. 90% of the time this team had the best defensive record.

It's a bit overused, but I can nor stress enough how accurate the famous quote "A great attack wins you games, a great defense titles", is.

Otehr examples are Napoli, Inter or Fiorentina this year. Amazing attack, shit defense. None are really challenging for Scudetto.

 

[Vlad]

If their defense has a bad day,Bayern have the tools to outscore the opposition but the same cant be said about Juventus.And this season the defense has had a lot of bad days then normal hence the struggle particularly in Europe..

Bayern is fantastic team in all areas, so not really good example to use. Probably one of the most complete sides of all time, along with Juve between 95-98 of course.

 

[Xperd]

Just look at any leagur winner at any of the major leagues during the last five years. 90% of the time this team had the best defensive record.

It's a bit overused, but I can nor stress enough how accurate the famous quote "A great attack wins you games, a great defense titles", is.

Otehr examples are Napoli, Inter or Fiorentina this year. Amazing attack, $#@! defense. None are really challenging for Scudetto.

IMO just IMO the opposite applies in Europe.You need quality more attacking quality to win in Europe and at least,kill of scrubs which we werent able to do.We were hoping on our defense maintaining a tight line and not conceding goals but that dint happen and its the not the way it should be because in CL ,its a different ball game and you come up against quality opposition with quality attacks.There is higher probability of defenders conceding goals however good they may be.

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Bayern is fantastic team in all areas, so not really good example to use. Probably one of the most complete sides of all time, along with Juve between 95-98 of course.

Yes.Just saying we need to strike a balance like them in the future.

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Lets use Bayern again as an example.They have conceded like 2 or 3 goals in the league but they have ended up conceding 6-7 in Europe and that is bound to happen because there is simply more quality on display in the competition.

 

[Vlad]

Lets use Bayern again as an example.They have conceded like 2 or 3 goals in the league but they have ended up conceding 6-7 in Europe and that is bound to happen because there is simply more quality on display in the competition.

I don't think many would object to have more attacking options in this Juve side, more facets to our game. But why I responded to Napolenic in the first place was his claim that the defense is not as important as the attack and I believe that well balanced side needs to equally pay attention to both; simply because as you've previously said on one day your defense may be more prone to amateurish mistakes, but on the other one your attack might have difficulties to break the deadlock and on both occasions you're likely to lose point or two if you put the sole emphasis on one aspect. And of course with well organized defense, one that rarely concedes, entire team becomes more confident and positive result is easier to obtain.

 

[JuveJay]

and why would that be any different with 1-0? being able to take a 1-0 lead but unable to do anything else but absorbing pressure and opponent's attacks also still have high probability to concede and lose.

That shouldn't really need explaining. Don't be obsessed with the scoreline, it could be a 1-0, 2-0 or whatever, as long as you are in control of the game.

Sometimes teams lose, not breaking news. But a team that doesn't have control of games will win nothing, that's pretty simple.

 

[napoleonic]

I'm not talking solely about absorbing the pressure and allowing opponents to create chances, but in fact with good defensive organization, closing the space in dangerous areas, you prevent this and then attack meaningfully without too much dwelling on the ball. Lippi's second spell, very direct football; I suggest you to watch few games from that era, I'll point you to the semis vs Real to get better insight.

if anything, lippi's juve wasn't all that organized and tough to break, ancelotti's juve was much more organized in defense, as well as capello's and you might say conte's too.

and yet lippi's juve made it to 4 CL finals due to presence of world class attacking midfielders and/or attackers... which just proven the case that no matter how attacking football > defensive football.

conte's 3-5-2 juve simply so lacking in attack and that is not enough in europe.

 

[Cuti]

the barca forum is that way ->

 

[Zacheryah]

if anything, lippi's juve wasn't all that organized and tough to break, ancelotti's juve was much more organized in defense, as well as capello's and you might say conte's too.

and yet lippi's juve made it to 4 CL finals due to presence of world class attacking midfielders and/or attackers... which just proven the case that no matter how attacking football > defensive football.

conte's 3-5-2 juve simply so lacking in attack and that is not enough in europe.

oh my fucking god. Why dont you slap yourself 5 times across the face for beeing the complete idiot you are.

Sousa, deschamps and Conte as a midfield. Thats 3 controlling midfielders
Vialli, compare his working to cavani

a defence of pessoto,torricelli, FERRARA and VIERCHOWOD

yeah, no organisation. omfg

 

[JuveJay]

which just proven the case that no matter how attacking football > defensive football.

Yes, apart from all those times that 'defensive' teams won instead.

 

[Zacheryah]

And you know what formation 1998 juventus used?

532.

Yup, thats 3cb's, 2wingbacks, and 2 holding midfielders. Behind zidane(who isnt that lazy eighter), del piero and inzaghi