Paul Pogba (102 Viewers)

[Nenz]

Pirlo is magnificent when of form. When he gives the ball away, it is ALWAYS a disaster waiting to happen, and we have witnessed that first hand on numerous occasions this season, particularly in the CL. He is most definitely a defensive liability; stats don't always tell the whole story. That is a simplistic approach adopted by guys infatuated with stats like Rus for example.

Liability is a bit much. Pirlo can hold the ball as well anyone. I wouldn't say he loses the ball more than Bonucci for example.

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[Bianconero81]

People need to realise that Pirlo, and Vidal+pogba, and Llorente+Tevez, cannot co-exist with offensive wingers if we want to get the best out of those 5.

Then we should start building for life after Pirlo, without the need for a regista. A 4-3-2-1 or 4-2-3-1 formation in Europe with fast, dynamic players in the attacking third would be a welcome change/adjustment. We need to be more dangerous when going forward, adopt more of a counter attacking approach. The way we play in Europe is sometimes lethargic and sluggish, and we really struggle to break teams down. Against quality opposition we still get look ins, but eventually end up falling short.

- - - Updated - - -

Liability is a bit much. Pirlo can hold the ball as well anyone. I wouldn't say he loses the ball more than Bonucci for example.

The word risk comes to mind. Perhaps liability was a bit much

 

[Bjerknes]

Liability is a bit much. Pirlo can hold the ball as well anyone. I wouldn't say he loses the ball more than Bonucci for example.

It was definitely a liability against Bayern.

 

[Rabbit]

4-3-2-1 plox

Buffon; Criscito;

; Barzagli; Lich; Vidal; 9Golan; Pogba; Tevez;

;

 

[Zacheryah]

Then we should start building for life after Pirlo, without the need for a regista. A 4-3-2-1 or 4-2-3-1 formation in Europe with fast, dynamic players in the attacking third would be a welcome change/adjustment. We need to be more dangerous when going forward, adopt more of a counter attacking approach. The way we play in Europe is sometimes lethargic and sluggish, and we really struggle to break teams down. Against quality opposition we still get look ins, but eventually end up falling short.

You need to accept that Italy and italian teams have proven before that you dont need to be running like a fucking idiot like they do in the EPL.

I hear many times, we look" sluggish" in europe. Well thats just not true. Our team just didnt had the right players. This season with Tevez and Llorente, so much has changed. We can definatly play a regista.
Just look at the madrid games where we were better. Our organisation was fantastic. Just picture this, without the defensive give-aways, and with llorente having played more then 3 games.

Suddenly, you get a juventus thats both domminating AND finishing its chances
So we are absolutely fine for another year or two.


Should we look for the post-pirlo ? offcourse. What should we buy ? any central playmaker. Should we get wingers ? Rather have syphilles and herpies !

Our core is pogba-vidal. We need a covering marchisio behind that. In front of that, we can put the playmaker. Or we can get a new regista.
It doesnt matter, whatever is the best playmaker for our system that we can afford.

 

[Bjerknes]

We were sluggish period under Capello. Those CL matches against English teams were nothing but embarrassing. We don't need to be hyperactive, but we should not come out smoked out of our minds

 

[Zacheryah]

We were sluggish period under Capello. Those CL matches against English teams were nothing but embarrassing. We don't need to be hyperactive, but we should not come out smoked out of our minds

But we arent right now

 

[Nzoric]

You need to accept that Italy and italian teams have proven before that you dont need to be running like a fucking idiot like they do in the EPL.

I hear many times, we look" sluggish" in europe. Well thats just not true. Our team just didnt had the right players. This season with Tevez and Llorente, so much has changed. We can definatly play a regista.
Just look at the madrid games where we were better. Our organisation was fantastic. Just picture this, without the defensive give-aways, and with llorente having played more then 3 games.

Suddenly, you get a juventus thats both domminating AND finishing its chances
So we are absolutely fine for another year or two.


Should we look for the post-pirlo ? offcourse. What should we buy ? any central playmaker. Should we get wingers ? Rather have syphilles and herpies !

Our core is pogba-vidal. We need a covering marchisio behind that. In front of that, we can put the playmaker. Or we can get a new regista.
It doesnt matter, whatever is the best playmaker for our system that we can afford.

Allow me to go full FM here:

What if we changed Bonucci's position from a sweeper to a libero? I know this is far too offensive for COnte's liking, but that way both Vidal and Pogba can push up as Bonucci steps into midfielder, Chiellini can attack the long balls while Barzagli assumes a more zonal marking position.

 

[Nenz]

It was definitely a liability against Bayern.

For a lot of teams that play against us a clear objective is to nullify Pirlo.

 

[Nzoric]

It was definitely a liability against Bayern.

Bayern were so good last year (haven't watched them enough this year to really know) that virtually anyone who received possession in midfield was a liability. The way they pounded on Barca just goes to show that our defeat wasn't down to Pirlo being slow or a liability, but the incredible efficiency of a hungry team.

 

[ZoSo]

but but you go for another team other than your country of birth... moron!

 

[Nzoric]

wat

 

[Noodle]

I wasn't calling it black and white, I don't read everything here thoroughly but I've noticed that Pirlo is a recurring topic in your posts where you single him out. Weren't you the one getting on him for not running back enough to get on the TV screen for the Bale goal? That's just an example of unnecessary criticism, and on top of that you were wrong. Another in this thread regarding the short horizontal passes, when Pirlo is apparently harming Juve by being the source of attention for possession. He doesn't even suffocate the way Pogba and Vidal play, they're both performing great beside him making 5 yard passes.



Even when Pirlo could have been considered to be experiencing a dip in form earlier on in the season, I would have considered him untouchable in the starting XI purely because there is no replacement for his ability to see and create chances in Juve. I'd be disappointed if Juve fans hadn't noticed what Pirlo's range of passing and vision is like after seeing the last two games, where Pogba has made barely any notable contributions to attacks. Even watching the chaos of the Udinese game was enough for me, luckily Llorente creates chances with his frame and he totally made the difference in that game. Vidal was also clumsy when he tried to open up their defense in Pirlo's absence, I can't agree he's not automatic into the lineup.



Juve's speed of build up wasn't an issue against Real Madrid over two legs, and they're one of the fastest teams in Europe. Pirlo was one of the best players on the pitch in that second leg, and was taking charge of the game to suit him. Similarly, the 1-1 vs Spain in 2012. If Juve weren't prepared to take the physical battle, I'd start to get worried, but that's why he's in the company of workhorses. And it's similar to the systems he's been used successfully in for his entire career.



In terms of impressive, his last two were excellent. In the Madrid game before he was substituted he messed around a bit much, but I don't actually have any other complaints about him in this years edition of the competition. I don't think unimpressive is something I'd associate with last year's group stage games either, he was good. Thinking back, I'd give it to you that I've seen Pirlo at his worst in a Champions League game, against Bayern in Munich. That might have been the first time I saw him play passes to nobody in particular at Juve, a load of high balls without purpose. Bayern totally dominated Juve, and I'm certain that wasn't a result of using a regista. Otherwise, I don't have any other bad games from him in the competition. Anonymous at times, but Juve should be able to capitalise on space created when teams man mark Pirlo. And that is why I'd think Juve could do with another creative player.



Defensively you get a weakness with Pirlo, but this is a truth of his career, it isn't brand new to the Juve portion of it. I could go back and find examples of where he was exposed for Milan (look up the Deportivo comeback) and he has two Champions League winners medals and a runners up medal with them. The idea of putting workhorses in a team with creative talent is fairly common, Juve clearly looked a lot more balanced when faced against an established elite Champions League team this season. It's not perfect yet, but I see the progress which Conte needed in that aspect. I understood his substitution in Spain.



Calling Pirlo slow is like calling Odonkor fast. You're simplifying his style yet again, when football has been dominated by players that are quick thinkers for at least 16 years (since I started following). Look at the state of the English national side to see how valuable intelligence is in the game. Age hasn't done anything to Pirlo because he still covered more distance than any other Juve player in last year's Champions League and he's playing the most out of anyone for club and country (60+ games). Pirlo played in a highly aggressive and quick Juve when teams were a lot more open in 2011, and he was Juve's best player in that season. Pirlo's pace has had barely anything to do with his playmaking ability, and he's found a way round that for too long to dispute.

If I had to decide (I've already touched upon this), I'd say that another creative player would be helpful to this Juve side becoming a regular semi finalist in the CL, allowing Conte to put in a winger with similar characteristics to Di Maria to open up more possibilities across the team for chance creation. I'd agree that I don't like depending on Pirlo though, which is probably why I've wanted more from Tevez in Europe.

Standard Salv post.

 

[Tommy]

Standard Salv post.

 

[ZoSo]

wat

 

[Zacheryah]

Allow me to go full FM here:

What if we changed Bonucci's position from a sweeper to a libero? I know this is far too offensive for COnte's liking, but that way both Vidal and Pogba can push up as Bonucci steps into midfielder, Chiellini can attack the long balls while Barzagli assumes a more zonal marking position.

I'm not sure Bonucci has the anticipation for that. Couldnt hurt to try tho

 

[Siamak]

Ninja Paul

 

[Gian]

Dem abs

 

[Vlad]

SBA

 

[Zacheryah]

100%