Paris attacks (13 Viewers)

[Enron]

@Hustini

Are these articles correct? I don't know enough about current refugee policy in the United States... but if these articles are correct and it's actually a 18-24 month screening process, it's absolutely pathetic that any state would be refusing refugees, and that anyone would argue a more rigorous process is needed. 2 years to research refugees? Ridiculous. And you guys say that a wave of refugees is going to enter America all at once, and terrorists will get in. Yep, all those terrorists that will pass through the 2 year screening process, that has a 50% success rate for applicants.

You guys have to be kidding arguing against accepting refugees on the basis that the screening process isn't rigorous enough. All evidence points to the exact opposite.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/17/how-americas-screening-of-syrian-refugees-works.html

http://time.com/4116619/syrian-refugees-screening-process/

http://www.vox.com/explainers/2015/11/16/9745318/syrian-refugees-us-isis

Only 2% of the 1800 refugees accepted over the last year have been males of combat age. Yep. America doing so much for the refugee crisis.

And fuck Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz. Only Christian Syrian refugees should be allowed? Disgusting.

Yep, that's true. The process is already in place.

 

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[Post Ironic]

Yep, that's true. The process is already in place.

So is this mostly the case of people being ignorant of the existence of this process? Including politicians? Because it seems like people are contending that the US will have to allow 10,000 refugees with only a few months to vett them which isn't the case at all.

 

[Enron]

So is this mostly the case of people being ignorant of the existence of this process? Including politicians? Because it seems like people are contending that the US will have to allow 10,000 refugees with only a few months to vett them which isn't the case at all.

Yep, it's the same process for all refugees (except Cubans). Not too many people know about it. It's gonna take a long time to get the refugees in the country. Even if they do streamline the process.

Politicians should be educated, but it's probably a combination on ignorance (they don't like to read more than 3 pages at a time) and politicizing for gain.
The media should also be better informing the population, but good information doesn't get ratings.

 

[Post Ironic]

Yep, it's the same process for all refugees (except Cubans). Not too many people know about it. It's gonna take a long time to get the refugees in the country. Even if they do streamline the process.

Politicians should be educated, but it's probably a combination on ignorance (they don't like to read more than 3 pages at a time) and politicizing for gain.
The media should also be better informing the population, but good information doesn't get ratings.

This. Most of all. Even beyond politicians politicizing for gain, and being ill-informed themselves... it's quite impossible to expect the populace to be well-informed if the media doesn't aid in that. And it's not really a case of left-leaning media, or right-leaning media, it's the way the entire media manipulates information and is so selective about the news they actually report.

 

[Fr3sh]

The media should also be better informing the population, but good information doesn't get ratings.

This. Most of all. Even beyond politicians politicizing for gain, and being ill-informed themselves... it's quite impossible to expect the populace to be well-informed if the media doesn't aid in that. And it's not really a case of left-leaning media, or right-leaning media, it's the way the entire media manipulates information and is so selective about the news they actually report.

There needs to be serious reforms on how media outlets operate, and even more serious repercussions for propagating non-sense that would make whatever situation that is at hand worse.

I kinda stayed away from this thread, other than reading the post here (which btw to you all), and talking to people around me about what happen other than the usual small talk about it. Also, ISIS should be viewed as more than just a simple terrorist group and anyone that has any financial/political/or any other type affiliations with them should be persecuted and exposed to the world.

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The media should also be better informing the population, but good information doesn't get ratings.

This. Most of all. Even beyond politicians politicizing for gain, and being ill-informed themselves... it's quite impossible to expect the populace to be well-informed if the media doesn't aid in that. And it's not really a case of left-leaning media, or right-leaning media, it's the way the entire media manipulates information and is so selective about the news they actually report.

There needs to be serious reforms on how media outlets operate, and even more serious repercussions for propagating non-sense that would make whatever situation that is at hand worse.

I kinda stayed away from this thread, other than reading the post here (which btw to you all), and talking to people around me about what happen other than the usual small talk about it. Also, ISIS should be viewed as more than just a simple terrorist group and anyone that has any financial/political/or any other type affiliations with them should be persecuted and exposed to the world.

 

[Xperd]

French president saying they will still continue accept refugees

 

[IrishZebra]

How do you objectively define "ISIS supporters"? How do you put together a random sample size of tweets that specifically only include those so called "ISIS supporters"? And in what way would such a statistics even mean anyways, seeing as it says probably much more about twitter and social media usage than ISIS support?

Exactly. Also many Syrians are simply so anti assad that they could look and sound like they're ISIS supporters, when they are obviously not extremists.




But it probably lacks nuance.

Everything in the social 'sciences' lacks nuance guys, I'm afraid I don't have access to the methodology so I can't comment to any great effect.

I also think it's funny that the Western inventions of the Internet and Social Media aren't banned.

Now we can talk about lacking nuance

 

[Seven]

Everything in the social 'sciences' lacks nuance guys, I'm afraid I don't have access to the methodology so I can't comment to any great effect.

I also think it's funny that the Western inventions of the Internet and Social Media aren't banned.







Now we can talk about lacking nuance

I don't know about facebook and Twitter and stuff. On the surface it seems so odd that Isis uses it. Somehow you'd expect it to be banned I guess.

 

[X Æ A-12]

Doesn't ISIS also distribute anti anxiety drugs to its fighters to get them to fight?

just more religious folk who cling so hard to their principles until the moment it inconveniences them

 

[IrishZebra]

How do you objectively define "ISIS supporters"? How do you put together a random sample size of tweets that specifically only include those so called "ISIS supporters"? And in what way would such a statistics even mean anyways, seeing as it says probably much more about twitter and social media usage than ISIS support?

I don't know about facebook and Twitter and stuff. On the surface it seems so odd that Isis uses it. Somehow you'd expect it to be banned I guess.

I assume they pick and choose their scripture on this like they pick out the don't kill innocents thing.




No Surrender, #JusuisDiesel

 

[Seven]

I assume they pick and choose their scripture on this like they pick out the don't kill innocents thing.

Tbh all muslims pick and choose. Just like all christians do. There are violent verses that inspire or even literally say to kill infidels in both books. I guess you just have to pick and choose with common sense.

 

[Fred]

Everything in the social 'sciences' lacks nuance guys, I'm afraid I don't have access to the methodology so I can't comment to any great effect.

I also think it's funny that the Western inventions of the Internet and Social Media aren't banned.







Now we can talk about lacking nuance

In this case, the nuance makes a lot of difference though.

If you looked at Syrian people's views on extremists before 2011, you'd probably see a completely different picture.

Look at Iraq, when ISIS first started its insurgency a few years ago against the Maliki regime, guess who was among their ranks, the secular baathist former Saddam military operatives, are you going to tell me those people are ISIS supporters? that's like saying that Carter and Reagan are Islamic extremism supporters.

My point is, it's extremely important to make the distinction between those who support ISIS ideologically(which I think is who you're interested in), and those whose interests are aligned with them(or at least are perceived to be aligned with them).

 

[IrishZebra]

In this case, the nuance makes a lot of difference though.

If you looked at Syrian people's views on extremists before 2011, you'd probably see a completely different picture.

Look at Iraq, when ISIS first started its insurgency a few years ago against the Maliki regime, guess who was among their ranks, the secular baathist former Saddam military operatives, are you going to tell me those people are ISIS supporters? that's like saying that Carter and Reagan are Islamic extremism supporters.

My point is, it's extremely important to make the distinction between those who support ISIS ideologically(which I think is who you're interested in), and those whose interests are aligned with them(or at least are perceived to be aligned with them).

The Officer Corps of ISIS still contains a significant bathist presence to this day, in fact, we can trace all this bullshit back to Paul Bremer, the retard.

In terms of Western strategic interest no, in terms of a fair debate, yes we could distinguish.

My personal stance that the most prudent thing to do in the medium terms is the semi-reinstall Assad, create Kurdistan and Partition Iraq.


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Tbh all muslims pick and choose. Just like all christians do. There are violent verses that inspire or even literally say to kill infidels in both books. I guess you just have to pick and choose with common sense.

In before an Atheist 'retards like religious people can't have common sense'

 

[Seven]

The Officer Corps of ISIS still contains a significant bathist presence to this day, in fact, we can trace all this bullshit back to Paul Bremer, the retard.

In terms of Western strategic interest no, in terms of a fair debate, yes we could distinguish.

My personal stance that the most prudent thing to do in the medium terms is the semi-reinstall Assad, create Kurdistan and Partition Iraq.


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In before an Atheist 'retards like religious people can't have common sense'

No the weird part imo is that religious folks will deny picking and choosing when they clearly do (and rightfully so because you can't apply a book that was written centuries ago to the world today in all of its literal meaning).

 

[Fred]

The Officer Corps of ISIS still contains a significant bathist presence to this day, in fact, we can trace all this bullshit back to Paul Bremer, the retard.

In terms of Western strategic interest no, in terms of a fair debate, yes we could distinguish.

My personal stance that the most prudent thing to do in the medium terms is the semi-reinstall Assad, create Kurdistan and Partition Iraq.


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In before an Atheist 'retards like religious people can't have common sense'

Well there you go, and you know full well that the two are polar opposites when it comes to ideology.

 

[Seven]

Tourists in Antwerp called the police because they saw a man acting suspiciously in a hotel. The police rushed to the scene and recognised the man immediately.

It was friggin' Nainggolan

 

[JuveJay]

He does look shifty, to be fair to them.

 

[Seven]

He does look shifty, to be fair to them.

He's got a mohawk and tats everywhere. But it's Antwerp and he's a football player so he probably has a lot of muslim friends and I guess there must have been some with him or something. But if the police have to come rushing out for every muslim in Antwerp they are going to have a rough time..

 

[IrishZebra]

No the weird part imo is that religious folks will deny picking and choosing when they clearly do (and rightfully so because you can't apply a book that was written centuries ago to the world today in all of its literal meaning).

You just have to take the core lessons and try and critically look at what has branched out from them, I for example, interpret Taxation and Welfare policy as thought by Jesus to prohibit Welfare without work in it, and to be a proponent of progressive taxation which obviously makes me Unchristian to both lefty and righty Christians

Well there you go, and you know full well that the two are polar opposites when it comes to ideology.

Yes, ISIS is just an 'Arab Liberation phase' run by insane people. There is a concurrent Arab Liberation phase which would ideally like a peaceful settlement but also advocates war more often as time goes on. The problem is the second can unwillingly feed the first and is not wholly blameless.

Telling your son to fight against external oppressors is fine, but not when the only successful reference point he has is ISIS, because then he'll join ISIS basically.

 

[lgorTudor]

Tourists in Antwerp called the police because they saw a man acting suspiciously in a hotel. The police rushed to the scene and recognised the man immediately.

It was friggin' Nainggolan

Too bad no policeman was a juventus fan with a loose trigger finger