*OFFICIAL* The President Barack Obama Thead (39 Viewers)

IrishZebra

Western Imperialist
Jun 18, 2006
23,327
I don't know where the rest of the world has been for the past 200 years, but in America black people generally have to go in the back door to the White House. This is a landmark for our country. Black presidents don't grow on trees. What ya'll think this is a Tyler Perry movie?
Making his election a race issue rather than a policy issue is deplorable. He should be noted for his political ability not the colour of his skin.

His policies were better than mcCains and Clintons, thats why people should have voted for him and it isn't that big a step for America or coloured people anyway, hope and change don't flow in politics.
 

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Ahmed

Principino
Sep 3, 2006
47,928
2 U.S. Airstrikes Offer a Concrete Sign of Obama's Pakistan Policy

By R. Jeffrey Smith, Candace Rondeaux and Joby Warrick
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, January 24, 2009; A01



Two remote U.S. missile strikes that killed at least 20 people at suspected terrorist hideouts in northwestern Pakistan yesterday offered the first tangible sign of President Obama's commitment to sustained military pressure on the terrorist groups there, even though Pakistanis broadly oppose such unilateral U.S. actions.

The shaky Pakistani government of Asif Ali Zardari has expressed hopes for warm relations with Obama, but members of Obama's new national security team have already telegraphed their intention to make firmer demands of Islamabad than the Bush administration, and to back up those demands with a threatened curtailment of the plentiful military aid that has been at the heart of U.S.-Pakistani ties for the past three decades.

The separate strikes on two compounds, coming three hours apart and involving five missiles fired from Afghanistan-based Predator drone aircraft, were the first high-profile hostile military actions taken under Obama's four-day-old presidency. A Pakistani security official said in Islamabad that the strikes appeared to have killed at least 10 insurgents, including five foreign nationals and possibly even "a high-value target" such as a senior al-Qaeda or Taliban official.

It remained unclear yesterday whether Obama personally authorized the strike or was involved in its final planning, but military officials have previously said the White House is routinely briefed about such attacks in advance.

At his daily White House briefing, press secretary Robert Gibbs declined to answer questions about the strikes, saying, "I'm not going to get into these matters." Obama convened his first National Security Council meeting on Pakistan and Afghanistan yesterday afternoon, after the strike.

The Pakistani government, which has loudly protested some earlier strikes, was quiet yesterday. In September, U.S. and Pakistani officials reached a tacit agreement to allow such attacks to continue without Pakistani involvement, according to senior officials in both countries.

But some Pakistanis have said they expect a possibly bumpy diplomatic stretch ahead.

"Pakistan hopes that Obama will be more patient while dealing with Pakistan," Husain Haqqani, Pakistan's ambassador to Washington, said in an interview Wednesday with Pakistan's Geo television network. "We will review all options if Obama does not adopt a positive policy towards us." He urged Obama to "hear us out."

At least 132 people have been killed in 38 suspected U.S. missile strikes inside Pakistan since August, all conducted by the CIA, in a ramped-up effort by the outgoing Bush administration.

Obama's August 2007 statement -- that he favored taking direct action in Pakistan against potential threats to U.S. security if Pakistani security forces do not act -- made him less popular in Pakistan than in any other Muslim nation polled before the election.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton indicated during her Senate confirmation hearing that the new administration will not relent in holding Pakistan to account for any shortfalls in the continuing battle against extremists.

Linking Pakistan with neighboring Afghanistan "on the front line of our global counterterrorism efforts," Clinton told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that "we will use all the elements of our powers -- diplomacy, development and defense -- to work with those . . . who want to root out al-Qaeda, the Taliban and other violent extremists." She also said those in Pakistan who do not join the effort will pay a price, adding a distinctly new element to the long-standing U.S. effort to lure Pakistan closer to the West.

In blunt terms in her written answers to the committee's questions, Clinton pledged that Washington will "condition" future U.S. military aid on Pakistan's efforts to close down terrorist training camps and evict foreign fighters. She also demanded that Pakistan "prevent" the continued use of its historically lawless northern territories as a sanctuary by either the Taliban or al-Qaeda. And she promised that Washington would provide all the support Pakistan needs if it specifically goes after targets such as Osama bin Laden, who is believed to be using Pakistani mountains as a hideout.

At the same time, Clinton pledged to triple nonmilitary aid to Pakistan, long dwarfed by the more than $6 billion funneled to Pakistani military forces under President George W. Bush through the Pentagon's counterterrorism office in Islamabad.

"The conditioning of military aid is substantially different," as is the planned boost of economic aid, said Daniel Markey, a Council on Foreign Relations senior fellow who handled South Asian matters on the State Department's policy planning staff from 2003 to 2007.

Bush's focus on military aid to a Pakistani government that was led by an army general until August eventually drew complaints in both countries that much of the funding was spent without accountability or, instead of being used to root out terrorists, was diverted to forces intended for a potential conflict with India.

A study in 2007 by the Center for Strategic and International Studies reported that economic, humanitarian and development assistance under Bush amounted to no more than a quarter of all aid, less than in most countries.

The criticism helped provoke a group of senators who now have powerful new roles -- Joseph R. Biden Jr., Clinton and Obama -- to co-sponsor legislation last July requiring that more aid be targeted at political pluralism, the rule of law, human and civil rights, and schools, public health and agriculture.

It also would have allowed U.S. weapons sales and other military aid only if the secretary of state certified that Pakistani military forces were making "concerted efforts" to undermine al-Qaeda and the Taliban. In her confirmation statement, Clinton reiterated her support for such a legislative restructuring of the aid program, while reaffirming that she opposed any "blank check."

Some Pakistanis have been encouraged by indications that Obama intends to increase aid to the impoverished country, said Shuja Nawaz, a Pakistani who directs the South Asia Center of the Washington-based Atlantic Council of the United States. Nawaz said Pakistanis may be willing to overlook an occasional missile lobbed at foreign terrorists if Obama makes a sincere attempt to improve conditions in Pakistan.

"He can't just focus on military achievements; he has to win over the people," Nawaz said. "Relying on military strikes will not do the trick." Attaching conditions to the aid is wise, Nawaz said, because "people are more cognizant of the need for accountability -- for 'tough love.' "
 

CheSchifo!

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2009
642
Making his election a race issue rather than a policy issue is deplorable. He should be noted for his political ability not the colour of his skin.

His policies were better than mcCains and Clintons, thats why people should have voted for him and it isn't that big a step for America or coloured people anyway, hope and change don't flow in politics.
That's all well and good, but when you say that all men are equal, but you've never had a black president before, something doesn't quite feel right.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
111,579
Well, this is the problem now. I'm sure they are scheming how to get us out of this economic meltdown, and one of the possibilities on the table is another war. If you remember, WWII allowed us to spark production to get out of the Great Depression. Pakistan really does come to mind due to talk of "Al Qaeda" hiding away in the Northern mountains and their new leader not really being much of an ally to the United States. The possibility does exist that a major war could break out there and we will have to send troops in to get down to business, something that is reaffirmed by Obama's own words on Pakistan and that probable false flag attack on Mumbai.

It's really strange how people don't see through the words. Obama said he would end the war in Iraq and close down the Guantanamo Bay terrorist camp. Yes, already accomplished one of those things. But where are they sending the prisoners? All across the world, even to my state of Pennsylvania, without a fair trial of course. A prison closing down only means the prisoners are sent elsewhere, so people praising this sort of feat do not really understand what is going on. Yes, Obama may end the war in Iraq, but then the troops will move towards Afghanistan and potentially Pakistan, through Obama's own words.

So the point is, yes there will be some changes but the end result is the same. What I'm hoping for is that Obama doesn't listen to the people around him, including that wannabe Israelite Emanuel, and does not allow the people who try to control the nation, ie the Halliburtons and war industrialites, coerce him into starting another major war.

As I said in the other thread, our government is filled with people who are not acting in the best interest of the United States, and they should all be charged with treason. That's the fact of the matter and I hope Obama doesn't become one of those people.
 

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
This Gitmo... it's been an eye sore more than anything else. If only they had used their secret network for CIA prisons and not let it get out they could have done the same thing without anyone knowing.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
111,579
This Gitmo... it's been an eye sore more than anything else. If only they had used their secret network for CIA prisons and not let it get out they could have done the same thing without anyone knowing.
Exactly. But what's scary is what goes on in those other installations.

Amusement park perhaps?
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
111,579
Do you mean FEMA or FISA?

They have FEMA camps already set up around the United States, ready to take people in if need be.

The camps are rather mysterious, they don't really seem to fulfill any purpose, but they do exist. REX 84 was a government drill to round up civilians and place them in these camps due to social unrest, so perhaps that's why they have them, as a precautionary measure.

I know for a fact though that people are detained around the world and sent to prisons, perhaps underground like you said, and probably tortured. That's just what the CIA does.
 

Vinman

2013 Prediction Cup Champ
Jul 16, 2002
11,481
Well, this is the problem now. I'm sure they are scheming how to get us out of this economic meltdown, and one of the possibilities on the table is another war. If you remember, WWII allowed us to spark production to get out of the Great Depression. Pakistan really does come to mind due to talk of "Al Qaeda" hiding away in the Northern mountains and their new leader not really being much of an ally to the United States. The possibility does exist that a major war could break out there and we will have to send troops in to get down to business, something that is reaffirmed by Obama's own words on Pakistan and that probable false flag attack on Mumbai.

It's really strange how people don't see through the words. Obama said he would end the war in Iraq and close down the Guantanamo Bay terrorist camp. Yes, already accomplished one of those things. But where are they sending the prisoners? All across the world, even to my state of Pennsylvania, without a fair trial of course. A prison closing down only means the prisoners are sent elsewhere, so people praising this sort of feat do not really understand what is going on. Yes, Obama may end the war in Iraq, but then the troops will move towards Afghanistan and potentially Pakistan, through Obama's own words.

So the point is, yes there will be some changes but the end result is the same. What I'm hoping for is that Obama doesn't listen to the people around him, including that wannabe Israelite Emanuel, and does not allow the people who try to control the nation, ie the Halliburtons and war industrialites, coerce him into starting another major war.

As I said in the other thread, our government is filled with people who are not acting in the best interest of the United States, and they should all be charged with treason. That's the fact of the matter and I hope Obama doesn't become one of those people.
well, according to your thinking, they're all innocent, so why not let them live right next door to you ??
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
111,579
well, according to your thinking, they're all innocent, so why not let them live right next door to you ??
Vinni, level with me a little, OK?

As an officer, you know people's rights. It is unconstitutional to detain anybody without any real reason.

My latest posts in this thread should actually make you somewhat proud as I'm not in agreement with Obama.
 

Vinman

2013 Prediction Cup Champ
Jul 16, 2002
11,481
Vinni, level with me a little, OK?

As an officer, you know people's rights. It is unconstitutional to detain anybody without any real reason.

My latest posts in this thread should actually make you somewhat proud as I'm not in agreement with Obama.
great, you want to give enemy combatants the same privledges that you give to our citizens ??

and I dont believe any of these prisoners were detained for just being at the wrong place at the wrong time...give the military just a little more credit (I know thats hard to do for a pacifist like yourself).

our troops are being attacked every day by these fighters, give them a little more respect
 

Ahmed

Principino
Sep 3, 2006
47,928
many of them have been proved to be innocent of any wrongdoing whatsoever and are already taking legal action against the US government...and to Andy's question, well what do you think? innocent until proven guilty, or not? And that too if they ever get a trial, which they never did
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
111,579
great, you want to give enemy combatants the same privledges that you give to our citizens ??

and I dont believe any of these prisoners were detained for just being at the wrong place at the wrong time...give the military just a little more credit (I know thats hard to do for a pacifist like yourself).

our troops are being attacked every day by these fighters, give them a little more respect
I respect the troops as they are just doing their job. What I don't respect however is insane foreign policy that is essentially terrorism itself. What about Abu Gharib, Vinni? Is that sort of torture in line with what is documented in the Constitution? I don't think so.

The Liberties we have been given as a nation are being stripped from us, not for homeland security purposes but just for the hell of it. There are hundreds of people incarcerated that have been proven to be innocent but had to spend time in jail because the system failed, so why do you think it is fair to imprison other nationals without fair trial?

I must say Vinni, if this is the way you interpret the law I'm very scared about that. Perhaps you should rethink that for the good of Americans.
 

Vinman

2013 Prediction Cup Champ
Jul 16, 2002
11,481
I respect the troops as they are just doing their job. What I don't respect however is insane foreign policy that is essentially terrorism itself. What about Abu Gharib, Vinni? Is that sort of torture in line with what is documented in the Constitution? I don't think so.

The Liberties we have been given as a nation are being stripped from us, not for homeland security purposes but just for the hell of it. There are hundreds of people incarcerated that have been proven to be innocent but had to spend time in jail because the system failed, so why do you think it is fair to imprison other nationals without fair trial?

I must say Vinni, if this is the way you interpret the law I'm very scared about that. Perhaps you should rethink that for the good of Americans.
hundreds out of how many, Andy ??

obviously, you have no clue of how many people are in prison in the US, so your "hundreds" are a real drop in the bucket....
 

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