Nick Against the World (27 Viewers)

[Slagathor]

One has to start wondering if the climate's still normal. I know they always say it would change so gradually we wouldn't notice and that it's thanks to the better equipment we have know if we would, but honestly all these "ecological errors" as of late are a bit odd, no?

The climate was never 'normal'. The only consistent factor is inconsistency. Remember all those paintings from the Dutch golden age that would have people ice skating on lakes and rivers and stuff? Well as it turns out that century had fallen victim to a mini ice-age. Wet and cold summers, even colder winters.

I'm not panicking yet.

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[Seven]

The climate was never 'normal'. The only consistent factor is inconsistency. Remember all those paintings from the Dutch golden age that would have people ice skating on lakes and rivers and stuff? Well as it turns out that century had fallen victim to a mini ice-age. Wet and cold summers, even colder winters.

I'm not panicking yet.

I am well aware of that. Some historians claim that the plague was partially responsible for that as the massive loss of human bodies diminuished the level of CO2 in the air, whilst plants were roaming free even in cities, which increased the level of oxygen and therefore made it colder.

Of course I'm not panicking either, but saying this is just average inconsistency seems like denial to me. Should the above hypothesis hold some truth it shows that human actions can have grave consequences. If the plague can cause a mini ice-age, can you imagine what our millions of factories can do?

 

[Slagathor]

Quit scaring me, I recycle

 

[sateeh]

well first of all in here there is a saying.." if you dont like the weather in Melbourne....wait 5 minutes". That best describes the weather here, last week it was hot as hell this week we have freaking cold winds.

abt global warming anybody seen that movie with Al Goar ?Where he talks about the seriousness of global warming

 

[mikhail]

I am well aware of that. Some historians claim that the plague was partially responsible for that as the massive loss of human bodies diminuished the level of CO2 in the air, whilst plants were roaming free even in cities, which increased the level of oxygen and therefore made it colder.

Of course I'm not panicking either, but saying this is just average inconsistency seems like denial to me. Should the above hypothesis hold some truth it shows that human actions can have grave consequences. If the plague can cause a mini ice-age, can you imagine what our millions of factories can do?

Have you seen An Inconvenient Truth? Gore shows some interesting temperature and CO2 graphs that suggest we're pretty much out of normal bounds and getting worse.

 

[Alfio_87]

scotland-rain no change there then

Rain whats rain? Melbourne never rains

 

[Falafel]

scotland-rain no change there then

here(Abu Dhabi, UAE), the maximum is 4 days rain a year

 

[Slagathor]

Have you seen An Inconvenient Truth? Gore shows some interesting temperature and CO2 graphs that suggest we're pretty much out of normal bounds and getting worse.

Well yes but his calculations are a bit off. He seems to just randomly pick the facts he likes best and use those as foundations for his theory. Hardly very precise.

 

[flieeeekke]

who doesnt do that though?

 

[Slagathor]

Well...

Touché

 

[sateeh]

Rain whats rain? Melbourne never rains

we got a little shower today, the kind of rain that you barely feel.

 

[Alfio_87]

we got a little shower today, the kind of rain that you barely feel.

its funny we are counting the drops of today rain! lol it could get ugly soon if we dont get some serious rain! which we wont

 

[sateeh]

its funny we are counting the drops of today rain! lol it could get ugly soon if we dont get some serious rain! which we wont

yeah i know, but i like the summer here anyway

 

[mikhail]

Well yes but his calculations are a bit off. He seems to just randomly pick the facts he likes best and use those as foundations for his theory. Hardly very precise.

Example?

 

[Bozi]

here(Abu Dhabi, UAE), the maximum is 4 days rain a year

thats about our quota of sunshine per year:faq1:

 

[flieeeekke]

thats about our quota of sunshine per year:faq1:

brilliant!

 

[Slagathor]

Example?

His handling of the facts reminds me of environmentalists. They know they only get a certain percentage of what they ask, so they exaggerate and ask for more than they need.

In Gore's case, his whole theory is based on the following fact: global warming is a direct result of human activity, mainly the exhaustion of CO2 fumes.

Fair enough, but he then continues to 'prove' said fact by saying CO2 levels are rising and research on ancient Antarctic ice samples tells us rises in CO2 levels go hand-in-hand with a warming of the planet. That is true, but he fails to point out those same ice samples tell us the connection used to be the opposite thousands of years ago: first came higher temperatures, THEN higher CO2 levels.

His argument that glaciers are melting because of higher temperatures isn't incorrect per sé, but his claim glaciers are melting ONLY because of global warming is definitely false. Glaciers melt, they break off and they move. Ask the Titanic.

Gore took hurricane Katrina and the exceptionally active hurricane season of 2005 as evidence global warming inspires fierce weather and magnifies storms. That's doubtful now that the hurricane season of 2006 has turned out to be one of the calmest in recorded history.

Insurance companies have reported more and more damage caused by natural violence. Proof of global warming? More likely evidence of a population growth that has sprung colossally out of control and migration streams that increasingly focus on fertile areas along river banks or coastlines. Not the safest places to live by a long shot.

And nobody has apparently had the heart to tell Gore the expanding deserts in Senegal and Niger have reversed and are currently actually shrinking. The jungle is taking over again.

Sea levels will rise by six meters according to Gore. The Water Ministry of this Kingdom has predicted a rise between one half and one full meter. I won't get into details of their calculation methods, but I can tell you they have a habit of getting it right after 2000 years.

I'm not saying CO2 and other emissions don't do any damage at all, for starters we're slowly gassing ourselves to slow, cancerous and painful deaths. However, as far as I'm concerned, overpopulation is the root of virtually all problems that Gore is convinced are caused by CO2.

 

[JCK]

on a serious note...

havent seen Paul or Denco here in a while

Paul is on vacation and Denco probably thinks no one here knows 10% of his football knowledge so he joined the Juventus forum for the extra intelligent, this forum you get granted access to only when you are as knowledgeable as Denco and good to show others how ignorant they are about basically anything.

 

[mikhail]

His handling of the facts reminds me of environmentalists. They know they only get a certain percentage of what they ask, so they exaggerate and ask for more than they need.

Yes, I'm quite used to seeing people do that. It makes everything much harder to decide. Imagine a world without spin...

In Gore's case, his whole theory is based on the following fact: global warming is a direct result of human activity, mainly the exhaustion of CO2 fumes.

Fair enough, but he then continues to 'prove' said fact by saying CO2 levels are rising and research on ancient Antarctic ice samples tells us rises in CO2 levels go hand-in-hand with a warming of the planet. That is true, but he fails to point out those same ice samples tell us the connection used to be the opposite thousands of years ago: first came higher temperatures, THEN higher CO2 levels.

Interesting, but not vital to his case.

His argument that glaciers are melting because of higher temperatures isn't incorrect per sé, but his claim glaciers are melting ONLY because of global warming is definitely false. Glaciers melt, they break off and they move. Ask the Titanic.

He claimed that? I think that's a strawman argument there Erik.

Gore took hurricane Katrina and the exceptionally active hurricane season of 2005 as evidence global warming inspires fierce weather and magnifies storms. That's doubtful now that the hurricane season of 2006 has turned out to be one of the calmest in recorded history.

Sure, he's taken something topical and used it a bit injudiciously. Yes, it's been very quiet this year, and that's great, it really is, but the earth is getting warmer (whether by our hand or not, whether for the short term or the long run) and warm water (>25 degrees) is a necessary condition for hurricanes. As long as it stays warmer than normal, we'll get seasons like last year. Maybe not every year, but we'll get them.

Insurance companies have reported more and more damage caused by natural violence. Proof of global warming? More likely evidence of a population growth that has sprung colossally out of control and migration streams that increasingly focus on fertile areas along river banks or coastlines. Not the safest places to live by a long shot.

Valid point. Also interesting is to consider that more of us means more impact on the planet (whether you consider it neglible or not).

And nobody has apparently had the heart to tell Gore the expanding deserts in Senegal and Niger have reversed and are currently actually shrinking. The jungle is taking over again.

Cool, but there are still plenty of examples of stuff getting worse - the Aral sea being the biggie.

Sea levels will rise by six meters according to Gore. The Water Ministry of this Kingdom has predicted a rise between one half and one full meter. I won't get into details of their calculation methods, but I can tell you they have a habit of getting it right after 2000 years.

When? That's utterly useless without a time scale for context.

I'm not saying CO2 and other emissions don't do any damage at all, for starters we're slowly gassing ourselves to slow, cancerous and painful deaths. However, as far as I'm concerned, overpopulation is the root of virtually all problems that Gore is convinced are caused by CO2.

Growing population (overpopulation is maybe a slight exaggeration, but it's certainly getting there) is a huge, huge problem, but I think that global warming will be as serious a problem.

Sorry if I'm not that coherent. I'm doped up, suffering from a headache, throat infection and severe lack of sleep.

 

[Slagathor]

Yes, I'm quite used to seeing people do that. It makes everything much harder to decide. Imagine a world without spin...


Interesting, but not vital to his case.

I disagree, it's pretty vital since he bases a large part of his theory on historic records in order to prove the link between higher CO2 levels and rising temperatures. It's fundamental to the theory of global warming. If, which isn't impossible, we figure out CO2 doesn't cause a rise in temperature at all (which is reasonable to assume based on previous patterns found in the afore mentioned ice samples: namely that it got warmer first, followed by a rise in CO2 levels, followed by a period of cooling), it completely destroys everything Gore stands for.

He claimed that? I think that's a strawman argument there Erik.

That's what I gathered he implied, but I might be wrong.

Sure, he's taken something topical and used it a bit injudiciously. Yes, it's been very quiet this year, and that's great, it really is, but the earth is getting warmer (whether by our hand or not, whether for the short term or the long run) and warm water (>25 degrees) is a necessary condition for hurricanes. As long as it stays warmer than normal, we'll get seasons like last year. Maybe not every year, but we'll get them.

That's not a given. There are other factors at play such as El Niño and even the Gulf Stream. Saying higher water temperatures = more and fiercer hurricanes is like saying higher consumer confidence = economic growth. It's a factor, but not the factor.

Valid point. Also interesting is to consider that more of us means more impact on the planet (whether you consider it neglible or not).

True.

Cool, but there are still plenty of examples of stuff getting worse - the Aral sea being the biggie.

Yes, but many things that are getting worse are due to human activity of a different kind. The rain forest in the amazon is disappearing because of a hunger for farm land and good prices for wood, not just because of higher temperatures and subsequent forest fires. The coral reefs and wildlife in the oceans are disappearing at least partly because of fishing, not just because of higher temperatures.

When? That's utterly useless without a time scale for context.

My bad, I meant for this century. Gore says 6 meters for the 21st century, the water department says .5 to 1 meter.

Growing population (overpopulation is maybe a slight exaggeration, but it's certainly getting there) is a huge, huge problem, but I think that global warming will be as serious a problem.

It might be. I'm just saying we don't know much about it. If anything at all. A lot of it remains without solid evidence.

Sorry if I'm not that coherent. I'm doped up, suffering from a headache, throat infection and severe lack of sleep.

But you're still awake because?