Nick Against the World (230 Viewers)

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
83,515
who the hell is that? :confused:
Berlusconi's wife.

e.g.:
Berlusconi Makes Public Apology to Wife
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/01/31/international/i091504S19.DTL

Someone went to Richards for highschool ;) btw callaghan went to another dump of a college: benedictine univ.
Ha! I learned to drive at Richards High School! (I went to Marist in Chicago, but lived blocks away from Richards in Oak Lawn.)

Dude, I don't know whose double account you are, but I think I've seen your avatar once when I snuck upstairs at the Sant'Ignazio in Roma, flicked on the circuit breakers, and lit up the scary image of Saint Stanislaus Kostka on his deathbed rendered in marble. :shocked:

 

Hambon

Lion of the Desert
Apr 22, 2005
8,073
These Imam's lack any kind of religious/political astuteness. Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) forbade his Sahaba (followers) from killing the hypocrites in Medina. These hypocrites were well known that they became Muslims but secretly hated Islam and conspired in different occasions against Islam and killing the prophet. They also made fun of Islam on different occasions. Were they killed? NOPE!!
Exactly....

Yes, I know that but that's because I've taken it upon myself to look into the religion of Islam and study some aspects of it. Few people here did the same. And at the same time, we have quite a number of imams in this country who have been warned/sued/imprisoned for repeatedly urging their followers to 'take a violent stand against infidels' or to 'murder those who insult Islam' or to simply 'attack the foundations of democracy and honour the Sharia'.

That's a problem because:

1) There are a lot of frustrated young Muslims in this country (who, admittedly, are frustrated because this society and previous governments have failed to make them feel part of the nation they were born in)
2) These frustrated people are vulnerable to influences
3) These sermons are no less than ignitions for terrorist activity

These imams make violence look like the ultimate solution to all problems, and at the same time people are willing to listen to them. People who hold power in any given religion are very dangerous.

That means the reaction to all of this from Dutch 'natives' (for lack of a better word) is as follows:
  • Imams represent Islam (and Allah which few people realise is the same as "God")
  • Imams want "us" (that would be "the Dutch" in popular terms) dead
  • Therefore: Islam is a violent religion
  • Thus: all Muslims must be violent extremists who seek nothing else but "our" destruction

And there you have it: the vicious circle we currently find ourselves in.
Spot on Erik :agree: THis circle is never ending....shame

Islam's biggest problem is a complete lack of structure. At least catholics can't just put on a hat and say they're a priest.
An Imam leads congregational prayers... they really dont have that much authority... on the other hand A mufti or an Islamic scholar who interprets the Islamic law (Sharia), and is capable of issuing fataawa has the real authority.... they are like u said the ones "who wear the hats" in islam..
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
111,703
Must be a meteorology class. If this was physics, at the end of all that the question would have been, "What color was his tie?"

Could be worse. The exams I get nowdays require my dropping my pants and turning to the left and coughing while someone wearing latex gloves searches for loose change. :pumpkin:
lol yeah true that, it could be even worse than that. You could have to solve an atmospheric thermodynamics problem while having your prostate checked by Dr. Robert Padovano.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
111,703
You kidding me? Every Tuesday and Thursday, religiously :D

Oh, the shit hole is Princess Anne, Maryland.

This Uni is pretty pathetic. The only thing we have to be 'proud' of is that the head coach of the Oakland Raiders, Art Shell went here and that UMES, along with U of Miami or "The U" as they call it, have provided the most players in a Superbowl.

Neither of which is anything to be proud of if you think about it. Art Shell lead the Raiders to the worst season ever in their history, and I believe even in the league (correct me if I'm wrong) and UMES no longer has a football team.
Yeah, I know about the area. In some odd way the more inland parts of the Eastern Shore of Maryland remind me of Kansas. Salisbury is a rather boring place, Cambridge is simply a joke, and Easton makes me want to drive my car through the local Tasty-Freeze instead of waiting for light traffic on US-50. I'd imagine the place would be living hell without the beach just a drive away... it certainly makes living there quite more enjoyable. Yet I'm sure most of the Wicomico and Worchester county farmers have not even been to the beach.

Speaking of which, we (including Burke, Enron and the like) should obtain a timeshare at Ocean City and pay the $5,000,000,000 rent some of those places are asking. :wth: That market is gonna drop quicker than you can say "Batman"... if you know what I'm talking about.
 

Zé Tahir

JhoolayLaaaal!
Moderator
Dec 10, 2004
29,281
Yeah, I know about the area. In some odd way the more inland parts of the Eastern Shore of Maryland remind me of Kansas. Salisbury is a rather boring place, Cambridge is simply a joke, and Easton makes me want to drive my car through the local Tasty-Freeze instead of waiting for light traffic on US-50. I'd imagine the place would be living hell without the beach just a drive away... it certainly makes living there quite more enjoyable. Yet I'm sure most of the Wicomico and Worchester county farmers have not even been to the beach.

Speaking of which, we (including Burke, Enron and the like) should obtain a timeshare at Ocean City and pay the $5,000,000,000 rent some of those places are asking. :wth: That market is gonna drop quicker than you can say "Batman"... if you know what I'm talking about.
I'm here from September to May off and on...no one goes to the beach.

Btw, My friend has a condo at Ocean City if you wanna rent it :biggrin:

edit: What the hell is this new icon. They replaced the : D symbol with something else.
 

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
You see, it's more complicated than that. There's a lot nastiness going around within Islam right now. You, i.e. the "westerners" aren't the only people targeted by these people. They are determined to destroy everything and anything. Why? Maybe they want to return to the stone ages.

Here's what I'm talking about:


According to a report, the Saudi government has arrested more than 100 Qadianis allegedly involved in ‘illegal activities’ in Jeddah. (Illegal here might mean simply ‘praying’.) A ‘trained group’ — office-bearers of the Qadiani Jama’at Jeddah — is accused of preaching Qadiani beliefs in and around the city. The ‘hard-working’ Saudi intelligence agencies arrested 45 people not from secret underground cells or hideouts but when they were offering prayers openly some days ago. Interestingly, a majority of the arrested people are from India.

Until now, the Qadiani ‘problem’ has been a Pakistani problem. The community was excommunicated in Pakistan by amending the 1973 Constitution. Thus, if a Qadiani says the kalima now he can be arrested. Pakistani passports categorise them as non-Muslims, but if someone were to ask Pakistan about the Qadiani religion, it would have a hard time proving how a Qadiani is a not a Muslim in Pakistan but is one in India. Pakistan excludes its non-Muslims, India does not exclude any Indian national. Therefore the Saudis have no way of knowing that an Indian Muslim is a Qadiani or not. For years it banned the Shias of Iran from doing Hajj. Now it is preening itself for catching a few Indians who are Muslims in their own country. This is ominous. Having declared the Shias as infidels, and warned that it may intervene in Iraq on the side of the Sunni minority which is infested with Al Qaeda, is Saudi Arabia now getting ready for ‘Islamic cleansing’ all over the globe? *

- Daily Times
That's disturbing and I can place several parallels between what you described, and the rise of protestantism in Christianity.

From what I read, the main split in Islam is that of Sunni versus Shia (you may correct my spellings, I read about these things in Dutch which uses different phonetics for Arabic) which is comparable to the old [Catholicism <> Protestantism <> Orthodoxism] rift in Christianity. Besides that, there are various different streams of which I don't know all the names and characteristics in Islam (that would require some serious studying) but in Christianity they include Calvinism, Lutherism, Baptism, Mennonism, Reformed etc etc

Since I'm more familiar with Christianity, I'm going to draw some parallels here cause I'd like to know exactly how the evolutions of the two religions compare. Maybe you could point out where I'm wrong and where I'm right cause obviously otherwise I won't know :D

Christianity was first torn apart centuries ago in the days of the Roman Empire. That happened mostly because Christianity spread beyond its monocultural borders. Different peoples of different cultures and different languages all differently interpreted the Bible but most importantly the codes of conduct and protocols of the religion which lead to separate movements.
As times changed, the Roman Empire dissolved and the insecurities of the Middle Ages slowly but surely eroded the European continent; more and more splits occurred: which I would compare to current insecurities and severe lack of stability in most of the Muslim world right now, particularly the Middle East.

The fact Islam is a younger religion also adds up in the equation because what took place first in Christianity was the divide between Catholics and Orthodoxists (or Sunni and Shia). Protestantism and its numerous small movements didn't arrive in history until the Roman Empire had as good as disappeared and Europe was in absolute chaos comparable to the Middle East today but also applicable to large parts of Indonesia and other great Muslim countries like Pakistan.

Here's the backlash: Europeans know, because they are taught so in schools, that the violence within Christianity lasted for centuries on end. Dutch independence for example was directly inspired by Dutch Protestants seeking to tackle the Catholic Spanish rule in the Low Countries. The Northern Irish conflict still hasn't been resolved. The reasons the worst of the violence disappeared are easy to identify:

1) Secularity, the divide between Church and State and resulting freedom of religion.
2) Increasing wealth. If you have something to lose, you are unlikely to pick a fight.

So when Europeans today hear about conflicts within Islam, they visualise a bloody conflict that will last for centuries and that will expand into Europe since the Muslim minority here doesn't seem to be too worried about losing Western values and wealth to start with.

Is the above comparison completely wrong, or is there truth to it? Because if there is, an increasingly globalised world is going to suffer by the hands of a religion yet again.

"My God we need China now."

I seem to have passed the exam. Hm, I guess university isn't what it used to be anymore here in Belgium.
Bah :D So your multiple choice questions aren't like the one I posted in this thread a while ago then?
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
69,446
Oh no, though reactionary in nature Shia rise is the direct result of a political rift. To put it in the plainest most superficial terms, the dispute arose after the death of the prophet of islam and an alleged proclamation of his potential replacement: Ali. A few decades later Ali finally became caliph only to be fighting Aisha one of Mohammed's wives over ali's reluctance to apprehend his predecessor's murderers. An astute meccan politician and syria's governor sees in this an irresistible opportunity which in turn only makes this quiditty more of a quandary. Fast forward a couple more decades and you have what remains as the most dramatic event between the two sects(at least from a shia point of view) Hussein(ali's son, Mohammed's grandson) along with his family(except for one Zayn Abideen) and entourage are brutally killed by an army sent by the son of the aforementioned meccan nobility. To the bottom of it, though some of the tradition differs mainly because of the standards used to relate tradition, the schism has actually left the ethos and spirit of the religion quite intact. Overall, both mainstreams see the road to heaven and hell pretty commonly, unlike the perplexing christian questions of grace, sacraments and consubstantiation.
 

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
Right, but that still leaves us with competing versions of Islam who (as in Iraq, fuelled by the instability of the day) don't mind using violence against each other.

So the cause of the main rift inside the religion is different, but its outcome, so far, largely the same?
 

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