Nick Against the World (88 Viewers)

Respaul

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
4,734
mikhail said:
Could you give a quick explanation of that one? I've never heard of it.
The Haematocrit test measures hhe percentage by volume of packed red blood cells in a given sample of blood after centrifugation.

Essentially the higher the level the more oxygen is present in the blood and as such the longer you can push yourself and the faster you recover... EPO basically inflates this level.

The standard acceptable level is 50% in most sports (inc cycling) though it is 55% in skiing as they are mostly at altitude which will raise the level somewhat... (hence why athletes often train in altitude chambers).
Though the levels are pretty much irrelevant for most as only cycling and skiing are committed to blood testing... most athletes in other sports have never even had a bloodtest... purely urine tests.

This is not counted as a drugs test, it is a health test which alerts to the high possibility of drug use... This the test that saw Pantani ejected from the giro all those years ago.

Though not a true drugs test, if read write tells one hell of a story.

If you look prior to the festina affair in 98, the average level at the start of the tour across the peloton was 49,8 (a natural level for a male athlete should be around 43/44)

After the events of 98, come 99 the average had dropped to 44 (raised by the odd anomoly such as lances 49.1 level and a few columbians and the likes of colorado bred vaughters who had clearance of a naturally high level due to living at altitude.

The level rose slightly a year later but has generally dropped over the last years with every new drugs test the uci have come up with...

Whilst this test doesnt say a person definately does take drugs it does show that the drugs useful to cycling. eg. EPO is not in use toady as they were before.. As you cannot manipulate this level.. and even if you could the drug would be of no use whatsoever if your level wasnt increased... The Haematocrit level is the one key factor in all doping within endurance events...

Whilst outwardly dirty due to the ucis awful publicity wagon and high level of positive results (no one else comes close to the number and variety of tests cycling perform on every rider) the fact remains that cycling has done more in the fight against doping than any other sport and is undoubtedly one of the cleaner sports today.



Tell me why no other sport tests properly or regularly (especially out of seaon), Why in the likes of athletics can you actually not turn up for 3 tests before you even get dragged in to explain yourself, let alone actually get banned.

Why is that apparently cycling is the only dirty sport when you have things like operation puerto which named 408 sportspeople in its findings... yet only 58 were cyclists, the rest being footballers ,tennis players and athletes...

Why was this blown up as a cycling thing when the numbers for cyclists are actually pretty low, why is it whilst cycling had the balls to admit the fact and name the people involved that the rest of the names have been buried without mention... The fact is, today cycling is the scapegoat of world sport...
 

Buy on AliExpress.com

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,288
Respaul said:
The Haematocrit test measures hhe percentage by volume of packed red blood cells in a given sample of blood after centrifugation.

Essentially the higher the level the more oxygen is present in the blood and as such the longer you can push yourself and the faster you recover... EPO basically inflates this level.

The standard acceptable level is 50% in most sports (inc cycling) though it is 55% in skiing as they are mostly at altitude which will raise the level somewhat... (hence why athletes often train in altitude chambers).
Though the levels are pretty much irrelevant for most as only cycling and skiing are committed to blood testing... most athletes in other sports have never even had a bloodtest... purely urine tests.

This is not counted as a drugs test, it is a health test which alerts to the high possibility of drug use... This the test that saw Pantani ejected from the giro all those years ago.

Though not a true drugs test, if read write tells one hell of a story.

If you look prior to the festina affair in 98, the average level at the start of the tour across the peloton was 49,8 (a natural level for a male athlete should be around 43/44)

After the events of 98, come 99 the average had dropped to 44 (raised by the odd anomoly such as lances 49.1 level and a few columbians and the likes of colorado bred vaughters who had clearance of a naturally high level due to living at altitude.

The level rose slightly a year later but has generally dropped over the last years with every new drugs test the uci have come up with...

Whilst this test doesnt say a person definately does take drugs it does show that the drugs useful to cycling. eg. EPO is not in use toady as they were before.. As you cannot manipulate this level.. and even if you could the drug would be of no use whatsoever if your level wasnt increased... The Haematocrit level is the one key factor in all doping within endurance events...

Whilst outwardly dirty due to the ucis awful publicity wagon and high level of positive results (no one else comes close to the number and variety of tests cycling perform on every rider) the fact remains that cycling has done more in the fight against doping than any other sport and is undoubtedly one of the cleaner sports today.



Tell me why no other sport tests properly or regularly (especially out of seaon), Why in the likes of athletics can you actually not turn up for 3 tests before you even get dragged in to explain yourself, let alone actually get banned.

Why is that apparently cycling is the only dirty sport when you have things like operation puerto which named 408 sportspeople in its findings... yet only 58 were cyclists, the rest being footballers ,tennis players and athletes...

Why was this blown up as a cycling thing when the numbers for cyclists are actually pretty low, why is it whilst cycling had the balls to admit the fact and name the people involved that the rest of the names have been buried without mention... The fact is, today cycling is the scapegoat of world sport...
Too bad you're wrong on one thing and it's the oldest trick in the book. The sort of doping Basso and Ullrich have no doubt been doing leaves the haematocrit level unaltered. They just pump up the blood volume.

Besides that it's also a simple fact that riding the Tour de France at these speeds without any medical help is unlikely. Because you know what? I consider needing a baxter after every stage doping. In what other sport do athletes need to go lie down for an hour and in what other sport do they need the help of baxters to get their breath back?
 

Byrone

Peen Meister
Dec 19, 2005
30,778
CauldronWench said:
Congrats dude! :D

Meanwhile I am still getting teased for having to change all four rims on my car today. Like it's my fault the government won't fix the potholes on the road. :p
Reminds me of the time my ex gf had an altercation with a lamp pole.When she drove home with a huge prang at the back of the car she replied, "the pole was in the way".

Woman. Gotta love em.
 

Dan

Back & Quack
Mar 9, 2004
9,290
Byrone said:
Reminds me of the time my ex gf had an altercation with a lamp pole.When she drove home with a huge prang at the back of the car she replied, "the pole was in the way".

Woman. Gotta love em.
ahahha
 

Respaul

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
4,734
Seven said:
Too bad you're wrong on one thing and it's the oldest trick in the book. The sort of doping Basso and Ullrich have no doubt been doing leaves the haematocrit level unaltered. They just pump up the blood volume.
Firstly, Basso and ullrich have been named in a report.. that is all, A report full of circumstantial evidence and pure guess work at that.you cannot say they have done anything at this point...

Secondly, your wrong, The blood removed is allways oxygenated and as such the haematocrit level is increased...
Its a pointless process otherwise as you can gain the same results without transfusion

Jus look at the details of tylers case and the fluctuations in his HM ;level.

Not too mention that i never said this was a straight out show of complete cleanliness i said it is a test that indicates on every level a cleaner sport...



Besides that it's also a simple fact that riding the Tour de France at these speeds without any medical help is unlikely. Because you know what? I consider needing a baxter after every stage doping. In what other sport do athletes need to go lie down for an hour and in what other sport do they need the help of baxters to get their breath back?
If you do some research you will find pretty much every pro sport.. But even then, what you consider is irrelevant, what matters is the rules, not your view
 

Enron

Tickle Me
Moderator
Oct 11, 2005
75,253
I don't believe Landis or Lance have ever cheated. I think the way cycling does its drug testing is very, very sketchy. I won't defend my opinion and firmly believe Landis will validate my point in two years when he returns from banishment to win the Tour yet again, all the while Levi enjoys two years of cycling domination during which no French rider finishes in the top ten and L'Équipe literally goes up in flames along with Armstrongs missing B sample.
 

Enron

Tickle Me
Moderator
Oct 11, 2005
75,253
I forgot to add that after another two years of American domination Jean-Maire Leblanc will realize Americans are just really, really good at riding bicycles and shoot himself in the head.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,288
Respaul said:
Firstly, Basso and ullrich have been named in a report.. that is all, A report full of circumstantial evidence and pure guess work at that.you cannot say they have done anything at this point...

Secondly, your wrong, The blood removed is allways oxygenated and as such the haematocrit level is increased...
Its a pointless process otherwise as you can gain the same results without transfusion

Jus look at the details of tylers case and the fluctuations in his HM ;level.

Not too mention that i never said this was a straight out show of complete cleanliness i said it is a test that indicates on every level a cleaner sport...





If you do some research you will find pretty much every pro sport.. But even then, what you consider is irrelevant, what matters is the rules, not your view
Look, if they pump up the blood volume making it eight instead of five litres the blood they add could have an increased haematocrit level to a certain extent without that being shown in tests done on the volume as a whole.
 

mikhail

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2003
9,576
Seven said:
Look, if they pump up the blood volume making it eight instead of five litres the blood they add could have an increased haematocrit level to a certain extent without that being shown in tests done on the volume as a whole.
With limited impact on performance though surely?
 

Respaul

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
4,734
Seven said:
Look, if they pump up the blood volume making it eight instead of five litres the blood they add could have an increased haematocrit level to a certain extent without that being shown in tests done on the volume as a whole.
For one that is not what ullrich and basso arer accused of and even if it was it is not as simple as that... it all sounds simple in theory but the reality is different...

The simple fact is for your average athlete (43%Hm), they can only increase their blood volume by 10% before the Hm level hits the dreaded 50.. Like it or not, thats how it is.So if you did a simple volume increase the benefits are limited and you are likely to jus plain die

As for the current case, Its about the accepted blood doping method of today, (as opposed to the straight volume increase of the arc ages)That is about autoglogous transfusions, where by a rider has an amount of their own blood removed, this is then put in a centrifuge and the red cells are seperated. Only the red cells are kept, the rest is discarded.

These red cells are then put in cold storage till required.
Once needed these cells are re-introduced to the body... It is not a simple volume increase, it is a red cell increase only.

This method allows a massive gain to a lesser Hm increase than the use of EPO etc, but it still massively increases Hm... As such the Hm level is still indicative of drug use or blood doping...

You cannot jus increase volume, the effects are marginal and incredibly dangerous... To blood dope you have to only use red cells (in essence oxygenated blood) to enable you to get worthwhile gain whilst to an acceptable extent being able to control your Hm and ensuring that you dont jus plain drop down dead with sticky jam syndrome...
 

Enron

Tickle Me
Moderator
Oct 11, 2005
75,253
Andy said:
You have to admit though, Diesel jeans are much better than Levis. I believe I only had a couple pairs of Levis when I was young and I absolutely hated them. And when you're 21 and attending bars every other night it certainly does not hurt to be wearing those Diesels instead of your Levis along with the Skyhawk watch..
I'll take your challenge Andrew. This fall you and I will enter a bar. I will rock my Levis and you can wear you Diesels and your fancy watch. Whoever leaves the bar with the most number or a woman wins. You game fancy pants?
 

Dragon

Senior Member
Apr 24, 2003
27,407
Enron said:
I'll take your challenge Andrew. This fall you and I will enter a bar. I will rock my Levis and you can wear you Diesels and your fancy watch. Whoever leaves the bar with the most number or a woman wins. You game fancy pants?

He'll win. Diesel jeans make almost every guy's butt look perfect. And I know about this stuff okay:D
 

Dragon

Senior Member
Apr 24, 2003
27,407
Enron said:
Jeans don't make your butt look any better.

We'll see what happens on game day.;)

Oh they do. I could show you pictures of my butt (Im not saying I will though) or someones butt wearing different pairs of jeans and you'll see what Im talking about. Of course its all about the attitude etc but when we girls go to bars/club and check out boys one of the first things we notice is their butt
 

Vinman

2013 Prediction Cup Champ
Jul 16, 2002
11,481
Black Mamba said:
Oh they do. I could show you pictures of my butt (Im not saying I will though) or someones butt wearing different pairs of jeans and you'll see what Im talking about. Of course its all about the attitude etc but when we girls go to bars/club and check out boys one of the first things we notice is their butt
I've done pretty well wearing Guess jeans :D
 

Lilith

Immortelle
May 19, 2006
6,719
Finding jeans here is a task for me. I am tall but slim and usually over here the longer the legs the bigger the waist and they never end up fitting. I really detest shopping for them.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 88)