Nick Against the World (79 Viewers)

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,835
++ [ originally posted by Holygr4le ] ++


Of course it is wrong. That is not the point here. I am trying to discuss something complex and gets answers like: “you do have a ****-ing choice”.

And what do you mean by psychology or not?
If you do not understand how we work (humans that is) how can you in that case come up with a solution?

Asking the same question as before: What are the number of Muslims borne in Texas? Is that because they all chose that? If they would have been borne in Iran would they have choose the same?
Solutions??? you mean a posteriori blabbering confusion, suggestions at best... Psychology as a rosetta stone of human psyhe is definitely a bunch of Bollocks. Just because it makes sense to the orator and the rather intellectually and of course emotionally weak audience does not make this travesty of science any factual. Men have the potential for evil, some of which disregard the consequences of their actions for whatever reason and act upon it. Starting from the founding axiom of psych which asserts we all go through different experience and states of mind shaping and formulating that ability of choice mentioned above. Only to end postmortem analysis of a handful of individuals to come up with an encompassing pattern! Madness! It's really simple treat the problem on a societal level, the greater good.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,835
++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++


Are you sure of that?

The impression I get is that the majority of prostitutes, at least here in Europe, are normal girls who have been lured into leaving their depressed countries for the fake promise of a better life and a quick buck in the "West".

Then you also have so-called escort girls, oftentimes students who would do the job to pay their rent or buy the last Gucci suit.

Do the motives/circumstances have any bearing on their ability to think for themselves and excercize their free will ?
 

Holygr4le

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2005
2,539
++ [ originally posted by Altair ] ++
Solutions??? you mean a posteriori blabbering confusion, suggestions at best... Psychology as a rosetta stone of human psyhe is definitely a bunch of Bollocks. Just because it makes sense to the orator and the rather intellectually and of course emotionally weak audience does not make this travesty of science any factual. Men have the potential for evil, some of which disregard the consequences of their actions for whatever reason and act upon it. Starting from the founding axiom of psych which asserts we all go through different experience and states of mind shaping and formulating that ability of choice mentioned above. Only to end postmortem analysis of a handful of individuals to come up with an encompassing pattern! Madness! It's really simple treat the problem on a societal level, the greater good.
Christ what a horse load…
Do you believe your arguments make more sense using a nice language?
Starting to talk about evil and postmortem analysis.

I simply will not get into this discussion as an argument. Find a weak one to impress instead.
 

Holygr4le

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2005
2,539
++ [ originally posted by Altair ] ++
Do the motives/circumstances have any bearing on their ability to think for themselves and excercize their free will ?
Free will does not exist. It is a myth. But if you wanna live the myth thats fine with me...;)
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,835
++ [ originally posted by Holygr4le ] ++


Christ what a horse load…
Do you believe your arguments make more sense using a nice language?
Starting to talk about evil and postmortem analysis.

I simply will not get into this discussion as an argument. Find a weak one to impress instead.

coz you simply can't, the weak is the one who's overwhelmed... if it is serious talk then why not talk seriously? btw thanks for the compliment.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,835
++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++


Erm, yes if they've been dragged into it by a pusher or if they are indeed addicted to hard drugs like Vinnie suggested.

No if they are students trying to earn a quick buck or if, as in the Low Countries, prostitution is a recognized profession like any other.
sorry but pusher eliminates free will, though the line is blurred as far as coercion is concerned. And for the drugs, again if it were her choice then she bears the consequences to the series of events following.
My point out of this it is to simply pinpoint that someone's view ona certain issue should follow rational rigor and not submit to personal affliction.
 

Holygr4le

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2005
2,539
++ [ originally posted by Altair ] ++
coz you simply can't, the weak is the one who's overwhelmed... if it is serious talk then why not talk seriously? btw thanks for the compliment.
You did read it wrong. “I simply will not get into this discussion as an argument.” This means I wont make it an argument but gladly as a discussion.

But I find it hard to discuss wither man kind is affected by its environment and that we base our judgement and decisions on experience. Its like having a serious discussion with someone saying the earth is flat…
 

mikhail

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2003
9,576
++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++
Are you sure of that?

The impression I get is that the majority of prostitutes, at least here in Europe, are normal girls who have been lured into leaving their depressed countries for the fake promise of a better life and a quick buck in the "West".

Then you also have so-called escort girls, oftentimes students who would do the job to pay their rent or buy the last Gucci suit.
In one of the papers here recently, I read that out of 22 prostitutes in our main jail in Dublin, 21 were heroin or cocaine (I think mostly the former) addicts, and one was an alcoholic. They might not constitute a well-distributed sampling, and Dublin isn't necessarily a good typical case, but it seems likely that a lot of prostitutes have a drug problem.

Certainly, poor immigratants seem to make up a lot of the prostitutes. I read a piece recently about the Belgian system, which pointed out those people as being victims even in the legalised system. Again, it's hard to generalise from that alone. Is Belgium typical there? How many immigrants were we talking about? etc.

Do escort girls come into this debate? Surely that's all meant to be platonic. ;)
 

Rami

The Linuxologist
Dec 24, 2004
8,065
++ [ originally posted by Altair ] ++


and I dedicate it to you dear friend :D ...btw what happened to the amico mio dude
Thanx birdy:D

You mean Lou?...I don't know...he must of gotten busy, as he hasnt been gone long for that much.
 

Holygr4le

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2005
2,539
++ [ originally posted by mikhail ] ++
In one of the papers here recently, I read that out of 22 prostitutes in our main jail in Dublin, 21 were heroin or cocaine (I think mostly the former) addicts, and one was an alcoholic.
Do they become prostitutes cause they are addicts or do they become addicts cause they are prostitutes?
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,835
++ [ originally posted by Holygr4le ] ++


But I find it hard to discuss wither man kind is affected by its environment and that we base our judgement and decisions on experience. Its like having a serious discussion with someone saying the earth is flat…
Is that indeed what I had said?? if you read carefully I actually gave psych some merit. it would be absurd to contend that we don't learn from both our exp's and the people's around us. But where you err is in asserting that free-will is dependent on the experience. Free-will being innate, precedes the experience. Exp's and 2nd hand knowledge shape our beliefs and convictions. But as those grow in number and especially in opposites it is ultimately our burden.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,835
++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++


Yes pusher, or rather pimp, eliminates freewill, which is what I was saying actually.

So do hard drugs though.
Yes but did you read what i said about that. The trickling events(i.e prostituation) are to beaasumed by the person who started doing drugs in the first place.
 

mikhail

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2003
9,576
++ [ originally posted by Holygr4le ] ++
Do they become prostitutes cause they are addicts or do they become addicts cause they are prostitutes?
That's an excellent question. I'm not sure, but I think the article said that at least some of them started on drugs before they became prostitutes. That said, I think some of them were abused and started at a shockingly young age too. Unfortunately quite fuzzy. I'll see if I can dig out the article, but I suspect it was in the Sunday Tribune, which doesn't have a site.
 

Holygr4le

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2005
2,539
++ [ originally posted by Altair ] ++
Is that indeed what I had said?? if you read carefully I actually gave psych some merit. it would be absurd to contend that we don't learn from both our exp's and the people's around us. But where you err is in asserting that free-will is dependent on the experience. Free-will being innate, precedes the experience. Exp's and 2nd hand knowledge shape our beliefs and convictions. But as those grow in number and especially in opposites it is ultimately our burden.
Great. Very constructive.
At this point all I can say is that we disagree on this one.
Free will is as made up as god (do not read religion or supreme being) and is often used in a way to declare an action as conscious. Free will is just a big fat whale…
 

mikhail

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2003
9,576
++ [ originally posted by mikhail ] ++
... I'll see if I can dig out the article...
You didn't see this ;)

A study has found that half of 22 women working as prostitutes in the Dublin area reported being sexually abused as children.

The women, who were aged between 17 and 26 and interviewed mostly in Mountjoy Prison, had also experienced high levels of physical abuse, homelessness and drug addiction.

The findings of the study, A Qualitative Account of 22 Young Women’s Involvement in Prostitution, which was conducted by Siobhán Quinlan, formerly of the DIT’s School of Social Sciences and Legal Studies and now a lecturer at Blanchardstown Institute of Technology, are due to be published shortly.

It found that 11 of the 22 women were under 18 when they became involved in prostitution. Most were introduced to prostitution through friends, whereas others became involved on their own or through a family member.

One woman interviewed as part of the study said: "My innocence was stolen from me years ago, so selling it then was no big deal. It was just another job."

The dangers of prostitution were also highlighted. Seventeen of the 22 women reported being attacked in the last year, while 12 reported being raped at least once. Twenty of the women said they had contemplated suicide, while 15 said they had attempted to take their own life at least once.

Twenty-one of the 22 women were addicted to heroin, and one reported being an alcoholic. The findings of the report were publicised at a conference on young people and crime organised by the DIT...
 

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