Genoa and Torino were both placed back to Serie C1, but that's because they played in Serie B. I think in normal cases it's only one division.
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New Juve scandal: Moggi talking to referees (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter AbuGadanzieri
- Start date
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your just silly, at least I stick with my club through thick and thin, compared to you who just have proved that you weren't worthy of Inter. what I find particullary funny is that you where one of those who dissed Juve the most and now you are a huge fan of them, that's just laughable. 
besides what are you reason to suddenly support Juve, weren't Real good enough for you or didn't they simply win enough trophies
I hope you have better reason this time, then the one you gave us shortly before you became a real fan.
(it was because their jersey was white and was a symbol of heaven )
besides what are you reason to suddenly support Juve, weren't Real good enough for you or didn't they simply win enough trophies
I hope you have better reason this time, then the one you gave us shortly before you became a real fan. (it was because their jersey was white and was a symbol of heaven
)
How's this Jeeks.
This is taken from www.repubblica.com:
Moggi domani davanti ai Pm
i 12 punti su cui dovrà rispondere
Dagli interventi sui designatori per la formazione delle "griglie" arbitrali all' episodio del presunto sequestro dell' arbitro Paparesta; dai condizionamenti delle trasmissioni televisive alle pressioni per la formazione della Nazionale: è ampio il ventaglio di argomenti che - da quanto si è appreso - intendono affrontare domani i pm di Napoli durante l'interrogatorio al quale sarà sottoposto, in qualità di indagato, Luciano Moggi.
Ecco gli argomenti che, verosimilmente, saranno affrontati nell' interrogatorio di Luciano Moggi.
1. LA FORMAZIONE DELLE GRIGLIE ARBITRALI
Moggi dovrà difendersi dall'accusa di essere direttamente intervenuto per la formazione delle griglie arbitrali prima del sorteggio per la designazione degli arbitri, come prova in particolare - secondo l'accusa - una telefonata, intercettata, tra lo stesso Moggi e l' ex designatore Paolo Bergamo.
2. I DOSSIER PER SCREDITARE GLI AVVERSARI
I pm, dopo aver ascoltato alcune conversazioni tra Moggi e il vicepresidente della Figc Mazzini e tra Moggi e Giraudo, chiederanno spiegazioni sui "dossier" preparati per screditare gli "avversari" Della Valle e Zeman: secondo i magistrati, vere e proprie "metodologie intimidatorie".
3. IL SEQUESTRO PAPARESTA
Moggi dovrà difendersi dall'accusa di aver chiuso a chiave negli spogliatoi e minacciato verbalmente, contestando loro decisioni sfavorevoli ai bianconeri, l'arbitro Gianluca Paparesta e i suoi assistenti dopo Reggina-Juventus (2-1) del 6 novembre 2004. I reati contestati sono sequestro di persona e minaccia.
4. GLI ARBITRI DA PUNIRE O NON PUNIRE
A Moggi i pubblici ministeri contesteranno di essersi "dato da fare" perché "non venissero penalizzati" gli arbitri che avevano favorito la Juventus" e "invece, venissero penalizzati" i direttori di gara che non l'avevano favorita. Sul punto vi sono telefonate intercettate tra Moggi e l'ex designatore Paolo Bergamo e tra Moggi e una segretaria della Figc.
5. IL CONDIZIONAMENTO DI ALCUNE TRASMISSIONI TV
Moggi dovrà fornire ai pm la sua versione riguardo a numerose telefonate con giornalisti, che vengono ritenute dagli inquirenti come inequivocabili condizionamenti per favorire gli interessi della Juventus.
6. Il SILENZIO DI PIERONI
Il direttore generale della Juventus dovrà difendersi dall'accusa di aver "barattato" il silenzio dell' ex direttore generale dell'Ancona Ermanno Pieroni riguardo a dichiarazioni accusatorie davanti all'autorità giudiziaria in cambio "di vantaggi economici e dell'incarico di direttore sportivo dell' Arezzo".
7. IL CONDIZIONAMENTO DELLA GIUSTIZIA SPORTIVA
Moggi dovrà dare spiegazioni anche su presunte interferenze nei riguardi delle attività dell'ufficio indagini della Figc e della corte di Appello federale: vere e proprie pressioni - come emerge dalle intercettazioni, secondo i pm - per condizionare le decisioni della giustizia sportiva.
8. L' ASSERVIMENTO DEI VERTICI DELLA FIGC
L'organizzazione della quale Moggi faceva parte - secondo i pm - avrebbe anche perseguito finalità di asservimento e di condizionamento dei vertici della Figc, e anche su questo Moggi dovrà fornire la sua verità, tenuto anche conto di alcune sue telefonate con Innocenzo Mazzini, vicepresidente della Figc.
9. GLI INTERESSI DELLE SOCIETA' COLLEGATE
In particolare Messina, Reggina e Sassari avrebbero tratto benefici dall'organizzazione della quale Moggi faceva parte.
10. LA FORMAZIONE DELLA NAZIONALE
Moggi ct ombra dell'Italia, che suggeriva a Lippi chi schierare e chi lasciare in tribuna? E' il sospetto degli inquirenti, dedotto da intercettazioni di telefonate tra Moggi e Carraro, Moggi e Giraudo, Moggi e Lippi.
11. LE TALPE E LE DIVISE COMPIACENTI
Moggi dovrà poi rispondere ai magistrati sul contenuto di telefonate intercettate, in base alle quali - secondo l'accusa - venivano raccolte informazioni riservate riguardo a procedimenti penali. Il dg della Juventus, inoltre, dovrà spiegare le "relazioni compiacenti" con agenti di polizia e alla Guardia di finanza.
12. I SORTEGGI 'TAROCCATI' DEGLI ARBITRI
Potrebbe essere uno dei capitoli più spinosi dell'interrogatorio. A Moggi e altre persone si contesta di aver pilotato il sorteggio degli arbitri, premessa indispensabile per predeterminare il risultato di diverse partite.
Here's the translation for half of them, I will get the rest later.
Moggi tomorrow goes before the public ministries and the 12 points he should answer
Here are the questions that Moggi likely will be confronted with.
1. The selection of the referree grid
Moggi will have to defend himself from accusations of his direct involvement on selecting referrees for matches. He'll particularly have to answer for an intercepted telephone call between himself and former referree designator Paolo Bergamo.
2. The dossier to discredit opponents
The public ministries, after having listened to conversations between Moggi and the vice president of the FIGC Mazzini and also between Moggi and Giraudo, will ask for an explanation on the dossier to discredit his opponents Della Valle and Zeman. According to the magistrates, they were threatening methods.
3. The confinement of Paparesta
Moggi will have to defend himself from the accusation of having locked referree Paparesta and his assistants in the lockerroom and verbally threatening them because of unfavorable decisions against Juve in a 2-1 loss at Reggina on November 6, 2004.
4. To punish or not punish referrees
The public ministries will argue that Moggi penalized those referrees and match directors that didn't favor Juve. They will particularly question him about intercepted calls between himself and former match designator Paolo Bergamo and also a secretary of the FIGC.
9. The interests of their connected societas
Messina, Reggina and Sassari have benefited from Moggi for their part.
10. The formation of the Azzurri
Moggi shadow selector of the Azzurri, advised Lippi on who to select and who to leave off the roster? This is suspected by the magistrates because of intercepted phone calls between Moggi and Carraro, Moggi and Giraudo and Moggi and Lippi.
This is taken from www.repubblica.com:
Moggi domani davanti ai Pm
i 12 punti su cui dovrà rispondere
Dagli interventi sui designatori per la formazione delle "griglie" arbitrali all' episodio del presunto sequestro dell' arbitro Paparesta; dai condizionamenti delle trasmissioni televisive alle pressioni per la formazione della Nazionale: è ampio il ventaglio di argomenti che - da quanto si è appreso - intendono affrontare domani i pm di Napoli durante l'interrogatorio al quale sarà sottoposto, in qualità di indagato, Luciano Moggi.
Ecco gli argomenti che, verosimilmente, saranno affrontati nell' interrogatorio di Luciano Moggi.
1. LA FORMAZIONE DELLE GRIGLIE ARBITRALI
Moggi dovrà difendersi dall'accusa di essere direttamente intervenuto per la formazione delle griglie arbitrali prima del sorteggio per la designazione degli arbitri, come prova in particolare - secondo l'accusa - una telefonata, intercettata, tra lo stesso Moggi e l' ex designatore Paolo Bergamo.
2. I DOSSIER PER SCREDITARE GLI AVVERSARI
I pm, dopo aver ascoltato alcune conversazioni tra Moggi e il vicepresidente della Figc Mazzini e tra Moggi e Giraudo, chiederanno spiegazioni sui "dossier" preparati per screditare gli "avversari" Della Valle e Zeman: secondo i magistrati, vere e proprie "metodologie intimidatorie".
3. IL SEQUESTRO PAPARESTA
Moggi dovrà difendersi dall'accusa di aver chiuso a chiave negli spogliatoi e minacciato verbalmente, contestando loro decisioni sfavorevoli ai bianconeri, l'arbitro Gianluca Paparesta e i suoi assistenti dopo Reggina-Juventus (2-1) del 6 novembre 2004. I reati contestati sono sequestro di persona e minaccia.
4. GLI ARBITRI DA PUNIRE O NON PUNIRE
A Moggi i pubblici ministeri contesteranno di essersi "dato da fare" perché "non venissero penalizzati" gli arbitri che avevano favorito la Juventus" e "invece, venissero penalizzati" i direttori di gara che non l'avevano favorita. Sul punto vi sono telefonate intercettate tra Moggi e l'ex designatore Paolo Bergamo e tra Moggi e una segretaria della Figc.
5. IL CONDIZIONAMENTO DI ALCUNE TRASMISSIONI TV
Moggi dovrà fornire ai pm la sua versione riguardo a numerose telefonate con giornalisti, che vengono ritenute dagli inquirenti come inequivocabili condizionamenti per favorire gli interessi della Juventus.
6. Il SILENZIO DI PIERONI
Il direttore generale della Juventus dovrà difendersi dall'accusa di aver "barattato" il silenzio dell' ex direttore generale dell'Ancona Ermanno Pieroni riguardo a dichiarazioni accusatorie davanti all'autorità giudiziaria in cambio "di vantaggi economici e dell'incarico di direttore sportivo dell' Arezzo".
7. IL CONDIZIONAMENTO DELLA GIUSTIZIA SPORTIVA
Moggi dovrà dare spiegazioni anche su presunte interferenze nei riguardi delle attività dell'ufficio indagini della Figc e della corte di Appello federale: vere e proprie pressioni - come emerge dalle intercettazioni, secondo i pm - per condizionare le decisioni della giustizia sportiva.
8. L' ASSERVIMENTO DEI VERTICI DELLA FIGC
L'organizzazione della quale Moggi faceva parte - secondo i pm - avrebbe anche perseguito finalità di asservimento e di condizionamento dei vertici della Figc, e anche su questo Moggi dovrà fornire la sua verità, tenuto anche conto di alcune sue telefonate con Innocenzo Mazzini, vicepresidente della Figc.
9. GLI INTERESSI DELLE SOCIETA' COLLEGATE
In particolare Messina, Reggina e Sassari avrebbero tratto benefici dall'organizzazione della quale Moggi faceva parte.
10. LA FORMAZIONE DELLA NAZIONALE
Moggi ct ombra dell'Italia, che suggeriva a Lippi chi schierare e chi lasciare in tribuna? E' il sospetto degli inquirenti, dedotto da intercettazioni di telefonate tra Moggi e Carraro, Moggi e Giraudo, Moggi e Lippi.
11. LE TALPE E LE DIVISE COMPIACENTI
Moggi dovrà poi rispondere ai magistrati sul contenuto di telefonate intercettate, in base alle quali - secondo l'accusa - venivano raccolte informazioni riservate riguardo a procedimenti penali. Il dg della Juventus, inoltre, dovrà spiegare le "relazioni compiacenti" con agenti di polizia e alla Guardia di finanza.
12. I SORTEGGI 'TAROCCATI' DEGLI ARBITRI
Potrebbe essere uno dei capitoli più spinosi dell'interrogatorio. A Moggi e altre persone si contesta di aver pilotato il sorteggio degli arbitri, premessa indispensabile per predeterminare il risultato di diverse partite.
Here's the translation for half of them, I will get the rest later.
Moggi tomorrow goes before the public ministries and the 12 points he should answer
Here are the questions that Moggi likely will be confronted with.
1. The selection of the referree grid
Moggi will have to defend himself from accusations of his direct involvement on selecting referrees for matches. He'll particularly have to answer for an intercepted telephone call between himself and former referree designator Paolo Bergamo.
2. The dossier to discredit opponents
The public ministries, after having listened to conversations between Moggi and the vice president of the FIGC Mazzini and also between Moggi and Giraudo, will ask for an explanation on the dossier to discredit his opponents Della Valle and Zeman. According to the magistrates, they were threatening methods.
3. The confinement of Paparesta
Moggi will have to defend himself from the accusation of having locked referree Paparesta and his assistants in the lockerroom and verbally threatening them because of unfavorable decisions against Juve in a 2-1 loss at Reggina on November 6, 2004.
4. To punish or not punish referrees
The public ministries will argue that Moggi penalized those referrees and match directors that didn't favor Juve. They will particularly question him about intercepted calls between himself and former match designator Paolo Bergamo and also a secretary of the FIGC.
9. The interests of their connected societas
Messina, Reggina and Sassari have benefited from Moggi for their part.
10. The formation of the Azzurri
Moggi shadow selector of the Azzurri, advised Lippi on who to select and who to leave off the roster? This is suspected by the magistrates because of intercepted phone calls between Moggi and Carraro, Moggi and Giraudo and Moggi and Lippi.
This has been translated on this site before you did it. Look fot it a few pages back. 
If we are found guilty, i dont see how it will just be demotion to serieB, it willand shouldbe more than that as Genoa were relegated for fixing 1 match,we on the other hand, its very serious. I am not one for Berlusconi saying give us the scudetto as Moggi's manipulations affected the whole league not just Milan and also I don't think Milan over the last 2 seasons have been consistent enough to say they really deserved the titles.
2 things really stand out in my mind, I did not see all of our games in 2004/2005 but I did see all this season and i gotta say,, at the time, i was baffled as to why everytime we met a team usually the bottom feeders in the league, the ascolis, parma, udinese, messina, reginna, treviso, livorno, it always seeed they were missing key players due to suspensions and injuries but mainly suspension. I was not suspicious, why should i be as i never expected anyone to manipulate or even have the power to do so. But I was always surprised to find out about our opponents handicap. Now Moggi has been accused of manipulating the situation to suit us and now that i can recall the matches, no way does it surprise me anymore that Moggi has been a puppet master.
Another thing is to read that Paperesta was locked in his office and Moggi took away the key and went to the airport. now i love gangster films but this is really scary shit and its not in the least funny.
What i find most surprising in this forum is the lack of anger, personally i feel cheated by Moggi and co. I have spent a whole deal of money getting to watch Juve and whether they win or lose , it does not matter, the pleasure is watching them play and i would have gladly done it again and again. What I cannot abide by is to how winning can mean so much that thease guys will go to this extent to win games
I have never liked Moggi's style and anyone who reads my posts will attest to that but i never thought he was like this at all. i just didnt like his transfer policies, i didnt like the fact that we spent 33m on a goal keeper, 25 each on 30 year olds like Thuram and Nedved as we could have gotten them for much cheaper. The sale of Zz, calling him just an entertainer which i found really annoying, treatment of Baggio and Ravanelli. The total lack of belief in youth system where Dp and Tacchinardi are the last players to have been young and made an impact for a period of time and thats in 1994. His son's agency being responsible for 200 serieA players and 21 managers is a complete conflict of interest and how its allowed in Italy is beyond me.So it is not like i ma kicking a man when he is down. Actually I am not 1 to say he should be hung from a tree or anything like that as far as im concerned if you are not selling drugs to kids, paedophilia or making unnecessay killings then i can forgive you anything, so when i see Moggi on tv nowadays, i do feel sorry for the ass. But he did not do personal damage, he has destroyed forever the image of a club and thats pretty huge. so forgive if i don't follow in the forza Moggi bullshit or thanks for the 14 cups nonsense. Simply because he did not go about his business the right way so i cannot be thankful for anything , if anything i feel completely cheated. The fact that a jury or the courts could not prove our mass doping does not mean we are innocent of that and thats a big difference. winning a decision on a technicality does not mean you are not guilty. It doers not even matter what the outcome of this is, cos i know we are guilty as sin. They might try to cover up stuff for the interest of the sport cos believe me punishing Juve will not be in the interest of the powers that be. It would have been easier if it was a lesser club but not Juve or Milan. I am terribly ashamed at this point in time. I love football unfortunately its gone beyond entertainment where people like Moggi have taken it upon themselves to make a mockery of the Italian game
2 things really stand out in my mind, I did not see all of our games in 2004/2005 but I did see all this season and i gotta say,, at the time, i was baffled as to why everytime we met a team usually the bottom feeders in the league, the ascolis, parma, udinese, messina, reginna, treviso, livorno, it always seeed they were missing key players due to suspensions and injuries but mainly suspension. I was not suspicious, why should i be as i never expected anyone to manipulate or even have the power to do so. But I was always surprised to find out about our opponents handicap. Now Moggi has been accused of manipulating the situation to suit us and now that i can recall the matches, no way does it surprise me anymore that Moggi has been a puppet master.
Another thing is to read that Paperesta was locked in his office and Moggi took away the key and went to the airport. now i love gangster films but this is really scary shit and its not in the least funny.
What i find most surprising in this forum is the lack of anger, personally i feel cheated by Moggi and co. I have spent a whole deal of money getting to watch Juve and whether they win or lose , it does not matter, the pleasure is watching them play and i would have gladly done it again and again. What I cannot abide by is to how winning can mean so much that thease guys will go to this extent to win games
I have never liked Moggi's style and anyone who reads my posts will attest to that but i never thought he was like this at all. i just didnt like his transfer policies, i didnt like the fact that we spent 33m on a goal keeper, 25 each on 30 year olds like Thuram and Nedved as we could have gotten them for much cheaper. The sale of Zz, calling him just an entertainer which i found really annoying, treatment of Baggio and Ravanelli. The total lack of belief in youth system where Dp and Tacchinardi are the last players to have been young and made an impact for a period of time and thats in 1994. His son's agency being responsible for 200 serieA players and 21 managers is a complete conflict of interest and how its allowed in Italy is beyond me.So it is not like i ma kicking a man when he is down. Actually I am not 1 to say he should be hung from a tree or anything like that as far as im concerned if you are not selling drugs to kids, paedophilia or making unnecessay killings then i can forgive you anything, so when i see Moggi on tv nowadays, i do feel sorry for the ass. But he did not do personal damage, he has destroyed forever the image of a club and thats pretty huge. so forgive if i don't follow in the forza Moggi bullshit or thanks for the 14 cups nonsense. Simply because he did not go about his business the right way so i cannot be thankful for anything , if anything i feel completely cheated. The fact that a jury or the courts could not prove our mass doping does not mean we are innocent of that and thats a big difference. winning a decision on a technicality does not mean you are not guilty. It doers not even matter what the outcome of this is, cos i know we are guilty as sin. They might try to cover up stuff for the interest of the sport cos believe me punishing Juve will not be in the interest of the powers that be. It would have been easier if it was a lesser club but not Juve or Milan. I am terribly ashamed at this point in time. I love football unfortunately its gone beyond entertainment where people like Moggi have taken it upon themselves to make a mockery of the Italian game
well you always bather us at our forums, so I can't really see why I can't come here, I have my right to say what I want as long as I'm not dissing any of the members in here. I know some of you really think it's a inconvenient time that i have decided to post in here but now you know how we feel when you come busting into our forums, and rubbing salt into our wounds.
