its funny hearing all these calcio fan whine. the allegations in question refer to 2 friendly matches and a game vs some no name team in CL pre-liminary's. Our scudetto victory is deserved, as r the yrs prior.
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New Juve scandal: Moggi talking to referees (33 Viewers)
- Thread starter AbuGadanzieri
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giruado's statement says it all... we have been always prosecuted for many things that were then proven to be false, and ppl in italy still question the integerity of this club and it's directors.
and to juve fans who r calling for the management to leave, i guess they forgot what that triade did to this club..i still think they r great and one of the greatest assests of this club.
and to juve fans who r calling for the management to leave, i guess they forgot what that triade did to this club..i still think they r great and one of the greatest assests of this club.
I didn't have the intention to write something about this topic for i was convinced at first that it was just another episode of that "saisons-ending-battle" off the pitch. To me it seemed that every year, when juve go for the scudetto there are rumours rising about all sorts of conspiracies. I just thought of letting the others speak but at this point i am nor really sure what is going on.
The whole conversation appeared in the gazzetta (which i consider highly believable) so i read through it. One can now argue about the contents of the discussion but what is sure to me; iIf this should turn out to be true, this will not only be a hard strike against Juve but for the whole serie a and the whole figc.
What troubles me the most is that moggi does NOT, at any moment, deny anything. The only thing he states when confronted to the press is that he feels that "basic human rights have been violated"... of course this is true but this sounds as he feels guilty
the whole thing would not really surprise me if i am honest. I am italian and love italy but what is going on underground in italy, i think no one can imagine. And this goes far beyond football. just think about politics (Berlusconi, etc...). imo there are a lot of rich people who make a lot of decisions in italy.
One line in this thread is also my opinion; Even as a fan, one should not close his eyes. I really hope this turns out to be fake but tbh, this hope is fading. unfortunately.
Let's hope for the best.
The whole conversation appeared in the gazzetta (which i consider highly believable) so i read through it. One can now argue about the contents of the discussion but what is sure to me; iIf this should turn out to be true, this will not only be a hard strike against Juve but for the whole serie a and the whole figc.
What troubles me the most is that moggi does NOT, at any moment, deny anything. The only thing he states when confronted to the press is that he feels that "basic human rights have been violated"... of course this is true but this sounds as he feels guilty
the whole thing would not really surprise me if i am honest. I am italian and love italy but what is going on underground in italy, i think no one can imagine. And this goes far beyond football. just think about politics (Berlusconi, etc...). imo there are a lot of rich people who make a lot of decisions in italy.
One line in this thread is also my opinion; Even as a fan, one should not close his eyes. I really hope this turns out to be fake but tbh, this hope is fading. unfortunately.
Let's hope for the best.
06/05/2006 11:15
if u r not going to read all of it, then read what is marked
Wiretap: Where's The Balanced Reporting?
Goal.com guest editorialist Gavino Nieddu wonders where the objectivity has gone in media reporting of the Moggi wiretap affair, and tries to separate truth from assumption, reality from not-so-hidden agendas, as Juventus again find themselves being convicted, tried and sentenced in the court of public opinion....
Well it didn’t take long did it? I concluded my last article by indicating that before long we would hear the next series of Anti-Juve sentiment. Low and behold, not a week after my article was posted, the next smear campaign against “La Vecchia Campionessa” has now infected every major football site on the web (though Goal.com was quickest off the mark in English! - Ed). Naturally the Anti-Juventino is in a state of ecstasy while the Juve fan has had his/her possible 29th scudetto celebration cut short even before it began. Once again I find myself at the water cooler at work being ridiculed by Premiership fans, Liga fans, hockey, baseball, and basketball fans over another episode of the most ridiculous soap opera in professional sport, Serie A.
What can I say? I suppose a lot needs to be considered when deciphering these, the latest in what seems to be a non-stop onslaught of claims. Things such as the source, their motivation, timing, and overall meaning seem to go over the heads of many who have already commented on this site. I however, am more cynical and opt to delve deeper. It is my instinct to doubt everything, especially the media, especially in Italy where I resided and where I was disgusted by the lack of objectivity in their right wing owned media (be it politics, economy, the war in Iraq, and now sport). I am going to move right past the obvious fact that a citizen’s right to privacy has been publicly raped (Luciano Moggi) and get right into what I feel the majority of readers are overlooking.
Where did this come from? The first thing that needs to be called into question is the credibility (or lack thereof) of the Italian media. While living in Italy one of my first realisations regarding the Italian print media is that there is little distinction between Newspaper and Tabloid in Italy. The average serious newspaper in Italy is no better than the average North American gossip column and holds very little weight outside of the boot. It is often criticized and quite transparent. Upon reading an average article the apparent position of the writers and editors are clear as day. Today’s headlines were no different. My question is; why does no one else see the agenda? The media is for the most part (not totally) run by the Royal Family of media communications. The same Royal Family that as of late ran the nation and to this day own the rival squad of the very team so often accused. This is a coincidence to everyone else? Frankly any “newspaper” that prints conversations acquired with no proof of incriminating evidence is no more than a trash rag. I’m not saying they made it up.
The FIGC launched an investigation and wire taps were leaked to the media (right on the eve of another title despite being concluded in September of 2005…how strange). The way in which they reported it however was in a very accusing manner (I read them directly from la Gazzetta). No objectivity in a headline that reads “I Furbetti del Calcio”, “The Clever Minds of Football”, the word misleading here would be an understatement.
The power the media yields is also worth noting. The media controls what we read and how much we are entitled to know. No doubt media ethics are a foreign ideology in Italy but it needs to be acknowledged that the media have the potential to print what suits them and take whatever they need out of context in order to prove whatever they, the editors, or the owners/investors desire to prove. Among other problems, translation is key. I read both the Italian and English versions and have to say that from a literal stance it was accurate, but there is much symbolism in the Italian (or any language) that can be lost and or misinterpreted in translation. For example, “Mi raccomando” does not mean, “you know what I mean? This sounded as though Moggi was implying something sinister when in fact in Italy “mi raccomando” is a normal way of saying bye to someone. It is like saying, “take care of yourself”. This however is a minor detail. More important things need to be called into question.
Is it lost on everyone else that all these stories seem to surface precisely at the end of a season? Last year we heard the Serie B scandals, we heard the bankruptcies of the Capital Clubs. We heard of the steroid use, etc. etc. It all amounted to nothing (except for the Serie B scandal) but it kept sales up in the off-season. Remarkably, this is also coming at another crucial point. Juventus are in the height of a month long “silenzio stampa” which means Media Silence. No one else apparently has noticed that nearly every other time Juve have implemented this sort of media blackout some sort of claim has surfaced as a form of backlash. Cannavaro’s drug allegation, the prior steroid accusation, etc. all stemmed from media blackouts. Today is no different.
Let us set all of these other factors aside for a moment and assume the sources are credible, and that the media is impartial. Let us assume no other motives drove this to the front pages. Let us assume nothing was taken out of context and that the tapes are audible and clear. What was really said?
Frankly, after reading everything posted I was disappointed. I was expecting an atomic bomb and what I read was nothing more than grown men bad mouthing colleagues, competitors, and superiors like old ladies. Granted it is embarrassing but certainly not incriminating.
Is this new? We’ve seen them sit together at games. We’ve seen Galliani and Berlusconi sit with them at games. These are all colleagues employed at the same Leagues. Luciano Moggi has been seen exiting Galliani’s office a number of times. Why wouldn’t he? They have common interests.
Nothing said was incriminating or even worthy of being taken to court. A Maseratti? So what? Where is the part where he says “if you get me a win I’ll get you a car”? It isn’t in there. Does anyone even know who it was for? The alleged recipient has already gone on the news and admitted he asked Moggi to find him a very specific car for a friend of his. The fact that Moggi works for FIAT owners (who own Ferrari/Maseratti) I’ll let you fill in the blanks.
now my favourate part
Luciano selected 3 refs for FRIENDLY MATCHES where nothing was at stake.
Lega rules to officiating are so rigid that even if Moggi gave his wife to Pairetto he couldn’t hand select a ref.
There are limitations and regulations. If I am a resident of Lazio I could never ref a Roma or Lazio game for example. If I have officiated a Juve game in the last 2 months I can’t officiate another one. See there are guidelines that need to be respected and approved by…you guessed it Galliani. “Give us a good one” hardly implies “Give me a crooked one”. Who doesn’t want a good one? Besides, none of this had anything to do with Serie A so all the Milanistas who are claiming the scudetto should be handed over to them should . These were conversations revolving around friendlies and a Uefa match, a Uefa match that Juve tied wrongfully.
See all Moggi ever did was complain about an incompetent official that annulled a legitimate Juventus goal. “Who the %&#@ did you send?” to which the response was; “he’s seen as one of the best” is not evidence of bribery but rather ranting and whining. Something we have grown accustomed to thanks to our friends in Milano. If Moggi did pay for that result I hope he kept the receipt.
They initially began investigating because of the steroid accusation of last year. They found no evidence of steroid use (contrary to what the Anti-Juventino will have you think).
What did they find? The desire for good officiating, an expensive watch for a talk show host, a car for a friend of a friend, and selection of refs for friendlies…hats off to these investigators. If the shoe was on the other foot none of this would be happening. Unfortunately for Moggi and Juve, thanks to the jealousy that surrounds them, they have already been condemned. Does anyone bat an eyelash at the obvious fact that the Milan VP runs the league? No, but two friends gossiping on a phone are grounds for trial when you work for Juve.
Once again though, the double standard is clear as day with regards to the media. Moggi has a good rapport with the man who selects referees? For crying out loud people, Galliani signs his paycheque and those of the referees too. Maybe not personally but they answer to him (within Italy). He is their superior. Who has more contact or influence than he does? Milan doesn’t need to corrupt…they run it period, and the media.
Look I am objective. I know that in a nation famous for its ability to corrupt government, media, police, etc. that sport should be no different. We are talking about the sport’s top dogs. Moratti, Moggi, Galliani, Sensi all have a lot of money, influence, and favourable positions and I’m sure that to an extent they flex their muscle and I am not saying any are totally guilty or that any are totally innocent but at the end of the day the game is decided on the field…otherwise why are we watching? The influence they yield is balanced in my opinion and the figures I posted in my last article confirmed the team similarities at the top of the table.
What baffles me is the immediate acceptance of the Milanista and the Interista of these allegations as if to say that their teams are totally in the clear. We’ve all seen numerous occasions where dubious calls have favoured others at the top of the table. Those occasions were always justified though, Kaka never dives nor Inzaghi, but every Juve free kick stemmed from a dive. Adriano’s indirect free kick should have counted yet Cordoba’s foul on Nedved was again a dive. Honestly, it is this inconsistency that has been bothering me for years. The part that irritates me the most is that now for years Interistas and Milanistas will have something else to bring up even if Moggi is found not guilty.
Did they stop accusing Juve after the steroid attempt cleared the doctors? No, instead they said they bought the judge. It is inevitable. The Juve fan will never be able to celebrate because they are either losing or cheating. It is the ultimate lose lose.
The fundamental difference is in the fan base. I rarely hear Juve fans bring up occasions where another team is helped.
No matter how much influence Galliani and Berlusconi had in 2004 no Juventino in my presence said they shouldn’t have that scudetto to their name and neither am I. That is how the season went. In my opinion, Milan may have experienced leniency but deserved the title no less. So why can’t they then be as humble now?
I doubt anything will come of this. The conversations just lacked any kind of criminal intent. The media got what it wanted though, they have once again put Italy’s favourite scapegoat on the front page. If Moggi is guilty I agree he should be dealt with. If so however I think the next phones to be tapped should be Moratti’s so that we can shed some light on why two handball goals were allowed to stand in the Coppa Italia semi finals last year which preceded their eventual triumph in the tournament.
Maybe we could get some clarification as to why an obvious Trezeguet goal was disallowed in the Supercoppa which also saw Inter crowned ( I guess Luciano’s cell must have died before he could hand pick that ref). Let’s tap Sensi’s to find out how Roma avoided Serie C2 relegation after going bankrupt the way Fiorentina did. Then I say we tap Galliani’s phone so that we can find out why a staggering amount of offside goals in the 2003-3004 campaign were allowed to stand which saw Milan earn it’s 17th scudetto, or why certain Milan players were allowed to refuse mandatory drug tests this season, or why a Cambiasso goal in the Champion’s League quarter final was called back sparking a riot. Not
that any of those headlines would ever get printed in Italy.
another favourate part
In all honesty I’m amazed at the Milanista/Interista attitude here. They should be ever so grateful that Juventus is in Serie A because for as long as they are, there will always be someone to serve as Italy’s lightning rod keeping other major influence teams relatively safe from the prying eyes and ears of the media. For all the potential steroid use and all of the dubious officiating in Italy, Juve is the only major Serie A squad to have to defend themselves in court regularly. Soon enough Juve will be able to add up all of their won trials and put another star on their jersey.
The last bone I want to pick is with Goal.com. Their inability (or lack of interest) with regards to the translating of Giraudo’s press conference has left a key fact in the dark (as of 6:00 p.m. eastern time May 5th it is not posted). Not only was the statement moving from a fan’s perspective but also illuminating as a major point was unveiled. Chief Attorney General Marcello Maddalena had full access to the tapes and after hearing ALL of it declared that there was nothing incriminating on them. No wrongdoing whatsoever was evident in the conversations (when heard entirely) and if anything proved the opposite. He stated that it was not court worthy material and that it would only serve the media’s desire to sensationalize rather than inform to go ahead with a trial. This however didn’t stop the “investigators” from selling their story to the press (in pieces) in what has been a successful attempt at misleading the public by omission. How strange that only very specific excerpts were printed and never a whole conversation. I for one hope it does go to court. Maybe a judge can finally silence the media and the Anti-Juventino. Like I said before, it won’t be long before we hear the next batch of accusations, lies, and excuses. Welcome to Serie A.
Gavino Nieddu
forza Gavino Nieddu
if u r not going to read all of it, then read what is marked
Wiretap: Where's The Balanced Reporting?
Goal.com guest editorialist Gavino Nieddu wonders where the objectivity has gone in media reporting of the Moggi wiretap affair, and tries to separate truth from assumption, reality from not-so-hidden agendas, as Juventus again find themselves being convicted, tried and sentenced in the court of public opinion....
Well it didn’t take long did it? I concluded my last article by indicating that before long we would hear the next series of Anti-Juve sentiment. Low and behold, not a week after my article was posted, the next smear campaign against “La Vecchia Campionessa” has now infected every major football site on the web (though Goal.com was quickest off the mark in English! - Ed). Naturally the Anti-Juventino is in a state of ecstasy while the Juve fan has had his/her possible 29th scudetto celebration cut short even before it began. Once again I find myself at the water cooler at work being ridiculed by Premiership fans, Liga fans, hockey, baseball, and basketball fans over another episode of the most ridiculous soap opera in professional sport, Serie A.
What can I say? I suppose a lot needs to be considered when deciphering these, the latest in what seems to be a non-stop onslaught of claims. Things such as the source, their motivation, timing, and overall meaning seem to go over the heads of many who have already commented on this site. I however, am more cynical and opt to delve deeper. It is my instinct to doubt everything, especially the media, especially in Italy where I resided and where I was disgusted by the lack of objectivity in their right wing owned media (be it politics, economy, the war in Iraq, and now sport). I am going to move right past the obvious fact that a citizen’s right to privacy has been publicly raped (Luciano Moggi) and get right into what I feel the majority of readers are overlooking.
Where did this come from? The first thing that needs to be called into question is the credibility (or lack thereof) of the Italian media. While living in Italy one of my first realisations regarding the Italian print media is that there is little distinction between Newspaper and Tabloid in Italy. The average serious newspaper in Italy is no better than the average North American gossip column and holds very little weight outside of the boot. It is often criticized and quite transparent. Upon reading an average article the apparent position of the writers and editors are clear as day. Today’s headlines were no different. My question is; why does no one else see the agenda? The media is for the most part (not totally) run by the Royal Family of media communications. The same Royal Family that as of late ran the nation and to this day own the rival squad of the very team so often accused. This is a coincidence to everyone else? Frankly any “newspaper” that prints conversations acquired with no proof of incriminating evidence is no more than a trash rag. I’m not saying they made it up.
The FIGC launched an investigation and wire taps were leaked to the media (right on the eve of another title despite being concluded in September of 2005…how strange). The way in which they reported it however was in a very accusing manner (I read them directly from la Gazzetta). No objectivity in a headline that reads “I Furbetti del Calcio”, “The Clever Minds of Football”, the word misleading here would be an understatement.
The power the media yields is also worth noting. The media controls what we read and how much we are entitled to know. No doubt media ethics are a foreign ideology in Italy but it needs to be acknowledged that the media have the potential to print what suits them and take whatever they need out of context in order to prove whatever they, the editors, or the owners/investors desire to prove. Among other problems, translation is key. I read both the Italian and English versions and have to say that from a literal stance it was accurate, but there is much symbolism in the Italian (or any language) that can be lost and or misinterpreted in translation. For example, “Mi raccomando” does not mean, “you know what I mean? This sounded as though Moggi was implying something sinister when in fact in Italy “mi raccomando” is a normal way of saying bye to someone. It is like saying, “take care of yourself”. This however is a minor detail. More important things need to be called into question.
Is it lost on everyone else that all these stories seem to surface precisely at the end of a season? Last year we heard the Serie B scandals, we heard the bankruptcies of the Capital Clubs. We heard of the steroid use, etc. etc. It all amounted to nothing (except for the Serie B scandal) but it kept sales up in the off-season. Remarkably, this is also coming at another crucial point. Juventus are in the height of a month long “silenzio stampa” which means Media Silence. No one else apparently has noticed that nearly every other time Juve have implemented this sort of media blackout some sort of claim has surfaced as a form of backlash. Cannavaro’s drug allegation, the prior steroid accusation, etc. all stemmed from media blackouts. Today is no different.
Let us set all of these other factors aside for a moment and assume the sources are credible, and that the media is impartial. Let us assume no other motives drove this to the front pages. Let us assume nothing was taken out of context and that the tapes are audible and clear. What was really said?
Frankly, after reading everything posted I was disappointed. I was expecting an atomic bomb and what I read was nothing more than grown men bad mouthing colleagues, competitors, and superiors like old ladies. Granted it is embarrassing but certainly not incriminating.
Is this new? We’ve seen them sit together at games. We’ve seen Galliani and Berlusconi sit with them at games. These are all colleagues employed at the same Leagues. Luciano Moggi has been seen exiting Galliani’s office a number of times. Why wouldn’t he? They have common interests.
Nothing said was incriminating or even worthy of being taken to court. A Maseratti? So what? Where is the part where he says “if you get me a win I’ll get you a car”? It isn’t in there. Does anyone even know who it was for? The alleged recipient has already gone on the news and admitted he asked Moggi to find him a very specific car for a friend of his. The fact that Moggi works for FIAT owners (who own Ferrari/Maseratti) I’ll let you fill in the blanks.
now my favourate part
Luciano selected 3 refs for FRIENDLY MATCHES where nothing was at stake.
Lega rules to officiating are so rigid that even if Moggi gave his wife to Pairetto he couldn’t hand select a ref.
There are limitations and regulations. If I am a resident of Lazio I could never ref a Roma or Lazio game for example. If I have officiated a Juve game in the last 2 months I can’t officiate another one. See there are guidelines that need to be respected and approved by…you guessed it Galliani. “Give us a good one” hardly implies “Give me a crooked one”. Who doesn’t want a good one? Besides, none of this had anything to do with Serie A so all the Milanistas who are claiming the scudetto should be handed over to them should . These were conversations revolving around friendlies and a Uefa match, a Uefa match that Juve tied wrongfully.
See all Moggi ever did was complain about an incompetent official that annulled a legitimate Juventus goal. “Who the %&#@ did you send?” to which the response was; “he’s seen as one of the best” is not evidence of bribery but rather ranting and whining. Something we have grown accustomed to thanks to our friends in Milano. If Moggi did pay for that result I hope he kept the receipt.
They initially began investigating because of the steroid accusation of last year. They found no evidence of steroid use (contrary to what the Anti-Juventino will have you think).
What did they find? The desire for good officiating, an expensive watch for a talk show host, a car for a friend of a friend, and selection of refs for friendlies…hats off to these investigators. If the shoe was on the other foot none of this would be happening. Unfortunately for Moggi and Juve, thanks to the jealousy that surrounds them, they have already been condemned. Does anyone bat an eyelash at the obvious fact that the Milan VP runs the league? No, but two friends gossiping on a phone are grounds for trial when you work for Juve.
Once again though, the double standard is clear as day with regards to the media. Moggi has a good rapport with the man who selects referees? For crying out loud people, Galliani signs his paycheque and those of the referees too. Maybe not personally but they answer to him (within Italy). He is their superior. Who has more contact or influence than he does? Milan doesn’t need to corrupt…they run it period, and the media.
Look I am objective. I know that in a nation famous for its ability to corrupt government, media, police, etc. that sport should be no different. We are talking about the sport’s top dogs. Moratti, Moggi, Galliani, Sensi all have a lot of money, influence, and favourable positions and I’m sure that to an extent they flex their muscle and I am not saying any are totally guilty or that any are totally innocent but at the end of the day the game is decided on the field…otherwise why are we watching? The influence they yield is balanced in my opinion and the figures I posted in my last article confirmed the team similarities at the top of the table.
What baffles me is the immediate acceptance of the Milanista and the Interista of these allegations as if to say that their teams are totally in the clear. We’ve all seen numerous occasions where dubious calls have favoured others at the top of the table. Those occasions were always justified though, Kaka never dives nor Inzaghi, but every Juve free kick stemmed from a dive. Adriano’s indirect free kick should have counted yet Cordoba’s foul on Nedved was again a dive. Honestly, it is this inconsistency that has been bothering me for years. The part that irritates me the most is that now for years Interistas and Milanistas will have something else to bring up even if Moggi is found not guilty.
Did they stop accusing Juve after the steroid attempt cleared the doctors? No, instead they said they bought the judge. It is inevitable. The Juve fan will never be able to celebrate because they are either losing or cheating. It is the ultimate lose lose.
The fundamental difference is in the fan base. I rarely hear Juve fans bring up occasions where another team is helped.
No matter how much influence Galliani and Berlusconi had in 2004 no Juventino in my presence said they shouldn’t have that scudetto to their name and neither am I. That is how the season went. In my opinion, Milan may have experienced leniency but deserved the title no less. So why can’t they then be as humble now?
I doubt anything will come of this. The conversations just lacked any kind of criminal intent. The media got what it wanted though, they have once again put Italy’s favourite scapegoat on the front page. If Moggi is guilty I agree he should be dealt with. If so however I think the next phones to be tapped should be Moratti’s so that we can shed some light on why two handball goals were allowed to stand in the Coppa Italia semi finals last year which preceded their eventual triumph in the tournament.
Maybe we could get some clarification as to why an obvious Trezeguet goal was disallowed in the Supercoppa which also saw Inter crowned ( I guess Luciano’s cell must have died before he could hand pick that ref). Let’s tap Sensi’s to find out how Roma avoided Serie C2 relegation after going bankrupt the way Fiorentina did. Then I say we tap Galliani’s phone so that we can find out why a staggering amount of offside goals in the 2003-3004 campaign were allowed to stand which saw Milan earn it’s 17th scudetto, or why certain Milan players were allowed to refuse mandatory drug tests this season, or why a Cambiasso goal in the Champion’s League quarter final was called back sparking a riot. Not
that any of those headlines would ever get printed in Italy.
another favourate part
In all honesty I’m amazed at the Milanista/Interista attitude here. They should be ever so grateful that Juventus is in Serie A because for as long as they are, there will always be someone to serve as Italy’s lightning rod keeping other major influence teams relatively safe from the prying eyes and ears of the media. For all the potential steroid use and all of the dubious officiating in Italy, Juve is the only major Serie A squad to have to defend themselves in court regularly. Soon enough Juve will be able to add up all of their won trials and put another star on their jersey.
The last bone I want to pick is with Goal.com. Their inability (or lack of interest) with regards to the translating of Giraudo’s press conference has left a key fact in the dark (as of 6:00 p.m. eastern time May 5th it is not posted). Not only was the statement moving from a fan’s perspective but also illuminating as a major point was unveiled. Chief Attorney General Marcello Maddalena had full access to the tapes and after hearing ALL of it declared that there was nothing incriminating on them. No wrongdoing whatsoever was evident in the conversations (when heard entirely) and if anything proved the opposite. He stated that it was not court worthy material and that it would only serve the media’s desire to sensationalize rather than inform to go ahead with a trial. This however didn’t stop the “investigators” from selling their story to the press (in pieces) in what has been a successful attempt at misleading the public by omission. How strange that only very specific excerpts were printed and never a whole conversation. I for one hope it does go to court. Maybe a judge can finally silence the media and the Anti-Juventino. Like I said before, it won’t be long before we hear the next batch of accusations, lies, and excuses. Welcome to Serie A.
Gavino Nieddu
forza Gavino Nieddu
great article; and thanks for highliting... As i mentionned before i just hope that the whole affair does not just turn out to be one big manipulation. I totally agree with the statement that IF moggi should be guilty, then there are other people's phone calls which should be listened to. to this i'm sure.
Let's hope that the (italian) football is, was, and will be a matter of sport, about playing and not about some dubious money-handlings
Let's hope that the (italian) football is, was, and will be a matter of sport, about playing and not about some dubious money-handlings
Btw, I checked about the car. Moggi didn't give it to Pairetto for free, it was a Maserati a friend of Pairetto (called Enzo) had ordered and paid. But, between ordering it and getting it, can pass more than a year, because they produce something like a car per day. All that Moggi did was making so that this Enzo would get the car without waiting all that time.
I read this in the motivations that made the judge archive the case. In these motivations he says that the scripts of the phone calls proved that there was not corruption of refs.
(translation, the closest to the original that I could manage, I hope it's understandable, though
)
I read this in the motivations that made the judge archive the case. In these motivations he says that the scripts of the phone calls proved that there was not corruption of refs.
(translation, the closest to the original that I could manage, I hope it's understandable, though
)
Juve: Bettega e Moggi commossi
Dom 07 Mag, 5:27 PM
Juve: Bettega e Moggi commossi
vedi foto
(ANSA) - TORINO, 7 MAG - Emozione per Bettega e Moggi a fine partita quando l'arbitro De Santis ha fischiato la fine di Juventus-Palermo. I dirigenti bianconeri si sono alzati in tribuna ad osservare, e Roberto Bettega particolarmente commosso ha applaudito la Juventus senza trattenere le lacrime. Luciano Moggi al suo fianco prima ha guardato la scena con sguardo fisso, poi si e' morso le labbra per trattenere il pianto visibilmente emozionato ed e' andato via in fretta.
Dom 07 Mag, 5:27 PM
Juve: Bettega e Moggi commossi
vedi foto
(ANSA) - TORINO, 7 MAG - Emozione per Bettega e Moggi a fine partita quando l'arbitro De Santis ha fischiato la fine di Juventus-Palermo. I dirigenti bianconeri si sono alzati in tribuna ad osservare, e Roberto Bettega particolarmente commosso ha applaudito la Juventus senza trattenere le lacrime. Luciano Moggi al suo fianco prima ha guardato la scena con sguardo fisso, poi si e' morso le labbra per trattenere il pianto visibilmente emozionato ed e' andato via in fretta.
In my country when there are scandals reported by the media, it can only mean two things:
1. The person(s) committing the scandals didn't have enough power/money/friends to cover it up
2. An opposition of higher power just decided to give a spanking
Both of which indicate that scandals are deep and the ones that surface might be only the shallowest.
Anyhow, I would like to read/hear more before making up my mind. We all know Berlusconi owns the media and perhaps communications?
Its akward that somebody would have stumbled apon a Moggi conversation (out of all celullar transmissions that go on through-out a day) A coincidence? Or thought out attempt?
The piece leaked out to the media could well be a short part of what was the whole conversation between the two in a short period of time (perhaps over a couple of days).
And this particular part might be the part that could be the most misleading.
When 2 or more people have a conversation and you decide to take 6-8 lines out of perhaps 30 or more, I doubt you will ever be able to get a good idea what exactly they are talkin about. Infact you can chose your 6-8 lines and make it seem they're talkin about anything you want it to be.
This is currently my defence for the CLUB that I LOVE and ITS DIRECTORS whom have CONTRIBUTED to the SUCCESS of JUVENTUS.
Ofcourse if there were undisputable evidance that Moggi infact was dirty, then I would have to say, "thank you and good bye".
But not before.
1. The person(s) committing the scandals didn't have enough power/money/friends to cover it up
2. An opposition of higher power just decided to give a spanking
Both of which indicate that scandals are deep and the ones that surface might be only the shallowest.
Anyhow, I would like to read/hear more before making up my mind. We all know Berlusconi owns the media and perhaps communications?
Its akward that somebody would have stumbled apon a Moggi conversation (out of all celullar transmissions that go on through-out a day) A coincidence? Or thought out attempt?
The piece leaked out to the media could well be a short part of what was the whole conversation between the two in a short period of time (perhaps over a couple of days).
And this particular part might be the part that could be the most misleading.
When 2 or more people have a conversation and you decide to take 6-8 lines out of perhaps 30 or more, I doubt you will ever be able to get a good idea what exactly they are talkin about. Infact you can chose your 6-8 lines and make it seem they're talkin about anything you want it to be.
This is currently my defence for the CLUB that I LOVE and ITS DIRECTORS whom have CONTRIBUTED to the SUCCESS of JUVENTUS.
Ofcourse if there were undisputable evidance that Moggi infact was dirty, then I would have to say, "thank you and good bye".
But not before.